Not By Works

[Suzy37]

Hi Suzy , let me put me two cents in about what your standing on .

First , no doubt your being drawn and called to Christ by the Father . But we aren't called to fulfill God's law . You can certainly try , that is your right . But if you break one of God commands or laws for just one millisecond , from birth to death , even in your thoughts , your guilty of breaking all of them .

This is where true NT Faith and faithing come in, Pistis and pisteuo in the Greek .when we answer the call of the Father by Faith applied ( personally surrendering our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender ) if this first act of faithing or pisteuo is seen as genuine by Christ , he then will move us into the testing ground , or what the word calls the parable of the sower . Only one of the four surrendered lives will keep moving forward , to be accepted and sealed with His Spirit .

Then ! We Will start to see His nature flow through us as we are continually increasing our faith and faithing as He is perfecting us by His Spirit , His presence , His mind , and His regeneration . If we see a reflection of obedience , fruits of the Spirit , or validation of what He has done with others who went before us , happening in us , that is Him doing it , not us .

The only thing we can continue to fulfill is faithing or pisteuo . To offer God continually an increased surrendered life . Everything else comes from Him accepting , testing , sealing , and regenerating , the surrendered life . Without that continually surrendered life , God can't do anything .

I hope this creates some questions , please ask them .

Did I leave the impression that we fulfill the law? if so sorry, we most certainly do not! Christ fulfilled the law that was one of the reasons He came to earth, He showed the perfect example of living by the law, of keeping the Ten Commandments in the spirit . He showed us how in Matt 5 and also showed us He came to fulfill the law by living it fully. I most certainly do not or can. But He did as our example of fulfilling the law, of keeping it to the full, not doing away with it!

I have no questions

, I agree with you just not as good with words LOL! I am pretty plain and simple I'm afraid.

A calling we respond to and as we respond He shows us more truth and if we keep on responding, believe, repent, be baptized and receive the HS then we start out on that process of salvation . You put it very well Pisteuo The requirements of baptism and laying on of hands are required for the HS to be given, very few exceptions! The Sower and the Seeds parable is such a good way of showing the calling God gives and the ways of rejecting that calling or accepting and growing on the good ground!

Thanks for your input!

 

[Suzy37]

A. 2nd Timothy 2:15 has nothing to do with sin being a transgression of the law........
B. The latter statement was a bit ridiculous...the Spirit is BORN again RIGHT now and bound in this BODY of sin......waiting to be given a Celestial Heavenly body at the resurrection/change which takes place at the Parousia of Christ.

 

[Pisteuo]

IF........take it up with God.....Faith is a GIFT.....and the fact that you seem to doubt this speaks volumes....

For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The " ability " to faithe is the gift , faithing or the act of applying Faith , ( Pisteuo ) is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , something we do with the gifted ability .

We also use that gifted ability for hundreds ofother acts of pisteuo that have nothing to do with God .

When you got into your car today , did you check to make sure your fuel tank or fuel line wasn't leaking ? No ! You fulfilled pisteuo , you performed an act ( started the car ) , based upon a belief ( that the unseen fuel line and fuel tank is working ) , sustained by a confidence. ( That I will drive the car forward ) . We fulfill 100 's of acts of pisteuo like this all day long , and most of the time the object of Faith is unseen and a life depends on it .

Did you check the air in your room last night before you went to sleep ?

Did you make sure the driver that had the red light , while you went through the intersection on the green light was going to stop ?

I could do this all-night . We are beings that are created to faithe . But because the English language doesn't have a verb form of Faith like the Greek does , and it was then mistranslated , it's meaning ortrue understanding has been lost .

Faithing or pisteuo as it relates to the living God is , commitment ( with a surrendered life ) reliance upon ( with a surrendered life ) to commit unto ( with a surrendered life ) a personal surrender to Him ( a surrendered life ) and a life inspired by such surrender ( making all our little daily decisions that show God we truly have surrendered our lives to Him and that our lives are nolonger ours , but His now .

 

[Studyman]

="BillG, post: 3783329, member: 252071"]So are you saying we only receive the Holy Spirit when we obey him?
If so what is this obedience?
How much obedience is required to receive the Holy Spirit.

I think Peter did have God's Spirit. They are His Words inspired by God. And the Disciples had certainly counted correctly and were gathered in "obedience" on one of the Feasts of the Lord Christ when God's Holy Spirit descended on them. A Holy Day rejected by the Mainstream Religions of the land today.

So I can understand how this statement from him would be questioned especially given the fact the there is a broad path with "Many" on it who all call the Christ, Lord, Lord, they all claim to be filled with His Holy Spirit, yet they do not even strive to be obedient. Not before and not after.

So one of two things has happened. Either Peter was deceived about who the Holy Spirit is given to, or "Many" who come in Christ's name have been convinced they have the Holy Spirit of God, when they do not.

Given the message of the entire Bible front and back regarding obedience to God, I am inclined to choose Peter's Words especially since they mirror The Word of God so perfectly.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jer. 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.



It's pretty clear that the religions of the land do not "Walk therein". It is for this reason that I have followed the instructions of the Christ and "Come out of Her". That was 27 years ago and it was one of the best things the Word of God ever directed me to do. Not because so many are offended by much of His Word, but because I can see clearly now why He said to "Be ye Separate". Not because I am anything, but because His Word's are wisdom and truth, not mine, nor any religion I might choose.

I don't expect you to understand, but some reading along will. It is for them that I share this witness.

 

[dcontroversal]

The " ability " to faithe is the gift , faithing or the act of applying Faith , ( Pisteuo ) is an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , something we do with the gifted ability .

We also use that gifted ability for hundreds ofother acts of pisteuo that have nothing to do with God .

When you got into your car today , did you check to make sure your fuel tank or fuel line wasn't leaking ? No ! You fulfilled pisteuo , you performed an act ( started the car ) , based upon a belief ( that the unseen fuel line and fuel tank is working ) , sustained by a confidence. ( That I will drive the car forward ) . We fulfill 100 's of acts of pisteuo like this all day long , and most of the time the object of Faith is unseen and a life depends on it .

Did you check the air in your room last night before you went to sleep ?

Did you make sure the driver that had the red light , while you went through the intersection on the green light was going to stop ?

I could do this all-night . We are beings that are created to faithe . But because the English language doesn't have a verb form of Faith like the Greek does , and it was then mistranslated , it's meaning ortrue understanding has been lost .

Faithing or pisteuo as it relates to the living God is , commitment ( with a surrendered life ) reliance upon ( with a surrendered life ) to commit unto ( with a surrendered life ) a personal surrender to Him ( a surrendered life ) and a life inspired by such surrender ( making all our little daily decisions that show God we truly have surrendered our lives to Him and that our lives are nolonger ours , but His now .

Not hardly.......and your made up words and definitions completely ignore and contradict numerous verses of scripture in context....and comparing a car running to the faith that saves is rather ignorant to be honest.....I do not trust anything man made.......sorry...barking up the wrong tree....

 

[Suzy37]

You are right ! TYPO I Jhn 3;4 shows us sin is the breaking (transgression) of the law Sorry the one I wanted was the one to show yourself approved of God and study Strongs is great II TIM 2;15

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
A Christian at receipt of HS is begotten of God not born , same Greek word but very different in meaning

What is Aol?

 

[preacher4truth]

Not hardly.......and your made up words and definitions completely ignore and contradict numerous verses of scripture in context....and comparing a car running to the faith that saves is rather ignorant to be honest.....I do not trust anything man made.......sorry...barking up the wrong tree....

Has he ever ponied up documentation, or does he just carry on obliviously twaddling on about "faithing"?

 

[Pisteuo]

Not hardly.......and your made up words and definitions completely ignore and contradict numerous verses of scripture in context....and comparing a car running to the faith that saves is rather ignorant to be honest.....I do not trust anything man made.......sorry...barking up the wrong tree....

Hey your hinting at an understanding of this !

You said ," running to the Faith that saves " . The word running , and the emphasis of running towards something is NT faithing or pisteuo . The specific definition of ( running towards God ) is the Vines definition , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."

The OT only had two pictorial words for Faith .
One , to lean on a staff with all your weight behind it . Emphasis on the continual trust on the staff with all our weight ( life ) behind it .

Two , the running to the shelter if a mother birds wings . Emphasis on the continual running towards something .

And when I say the words the English language should have had for the translators , faithe , faither , and faithing , what would be the verb form of the noun Faith , I know they are not let English words . But the definitions your not addressing are straight from the Greek dictionarys . Are you going to show how your understanding works with those Greek definitions ?

 

[ljs]

Why oh Why are so many focused on Sin ?

Jesus died for the sins of the world !

Just Believe the Gospel for this the dispensation of Grace ( 1st Cor 15 1-4 )

Trust Jesus , and what he accomplished for us !!

 

[dcontroversal]

You are right ! TYPO I Jhn 3;4 shows us sin is the breaking (transgression) of the law Sorry the one I wanted was the one to show yourself approved of God and study Strongs is great II TIM 2;15

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
A Christian at receipt of HS is begotten of God not born , same Greek word but very different in meaning

What is Aol?

BOTH of the following statements prove your error in thinking.....the bolded above is false....


BORN AGAIN FROM ABOVE BY INCORRUPTIBLE SEED...........

THAT which is BORN of SPIRIT is SPIRIT........

AOL <--->America On Line

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey your hinting at an understanding of this !

You said ," running to the Faith that saves " . The word running , and the emphasis of running towards something is NT faithing or pisteuo . The specific definition of ( running towards God ) is the Vines definition , " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."

The OT only had two pictorial words for Faith .
One , to lean on a staff with all your weight behind it . Emphasis on the continual trust on the staff with all our weight ( life ) behind it .

Two , the running to the shelter if a mother birds wings . Emphasis on the continual running towards something .

And when I say the words the English language should have had for the translators , faithe , faither , and faithing , what would be the verb form of the noun Faith , I know they are not let English words . But the definitions your not addressing are straight from the Greek dictionarys . Are you going to show how your understanding works with those Greek definitions ?

Man....you need to read it again...I never said any such thing.....the bolded above is an embellishment of what I actually said which was.....

.and comparing a car running to the faith that saves is rather ignorant to be honest..

 

[dcontroversal]

Why oh Why are so many focused on Sin ?

Jesus died for the sins of the world !

Just Believe the Gospel for this the dispensation of Grace ( 1st Cor 15 1-4 )

Trust Jesus , and what he accomplished for us !!

AMEN......keep firing away

 

[dcontroversal]

Has he ever ponied up documentation, or does he just carry on obliviously twaddling on about "faithing"?

Bloviating and Blather.....Gotta love Bill O for his use of those two words.....

 

[Pisteuo]

Man....you need to read it again...I never said any such thing.....the bolded above is an embellishment of what I actually said which was.....

.and comparing a car running to the faith that saves is rather ignorant to be honest..

Ok , let's see what we agree on .

Do you agree that pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT

Do you agree that pisteuo is the corresponding verb to the noun Faith ?

Do you agree with the Vines Greek dictionarys definition of pisteuo ? " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ?"

 

[VCO]

Really , in the 1950's ?

They never were Know to be a Christian School, were they?

 

[Pisteuo]

They never were Know to be a Christian School, were they?

They had a good line of theologians , neibor , Barth , Green . My instructor asked to many questions at the Bible college , they told Him to go to the university . He went to Stanford and got his Dr. In theology and education . He went on to mass the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican . He taught from those manuscripts for over 50 years . Just like they would at a Stanford University level classroom .

 

[VCO]

Sorry you were having problems VCO but glad you are doing well now! That experience sounds like conversion , God does indeed change those who seek Him and then growth thru the HS, putting mind of Christ in us, but that is not born again if you realize you still sin then remember in Jhn where it says if born of the spirit you cannot sin. ( I realize that every day when I fail in some way) You do not have eternal life yet. The immortal soul doctrine was first brought to Eve by Satan and still a lie!

I Thess 5 vrs 23-24 is speaking of those Paul was asking for God to set them apart ( sanctify) and that they would be preserved blameless until Christs coming spirt,soul and body,that they would remain faithful until Christ came . The NT 1st generation believed Christ would come in their time. Paul showed that in his writings.They were to be blameless like Zachirius and Elizabeth, blameless in keeping Commandments.

I do not say your experience was not real but that it was being born again. not going to happen until the resurrection!

I DID NOT SAY THE HUMAN SOUL WAS IMMORTAL, I SAID THE HUMAN SPIRIT IS BORN AGAIN IMMORTAL.

Maybe if Adam and Eve never had sinned, they would still be alive today, but the Born Again human spirit is IMMORTAL.

Do you understand the difference between Soul and Spirit?

If you do not know, there is a reason:

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Sorry for me? NO, HE BIRTHED MY HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, I took that to SAVE ME

 

[J70x7]

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time.

 

[VCO]

. . .

I do not say your experience was not real but that it was being born again. not going to happen until the resurrection!

NO PLEASE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEORY! IT IS A REAL EXPERIENCE YOU CAN HAVE NOW. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GENUINELY REPENT, AND TRULY RECEIVE HIM AS LORD, MEANING MASTER. IT IS VERY, VERY REAL.

HE WILL BIRTH YOUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE! PLEASE SURRENDER THE COMPLETE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE NOW, PURELY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.

I KNOW NOW WHY YOU ARE SO CONFUSED, YOU NEED THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOUR LIFE NOW!

The night I was saved, after my third attempt at suicide, because my wife of only 6 months, demanded a divorce on Christmas Eve of 1977, because I could not earn enough money. I prayed, "Forgive me, Forgive me! LORD if you got a purpose for my life, you will have to come in and run my live. Because I cannot do it!" PLEASE, give HIM control of your LIFE out of a Willing Heart.

Did He COME IN? Absolutely, and I saw so many miracles in my life, I could not count them. How does a Nebraska farm boy with out a single hour is BIBLE COLLEGE, become a Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain, you will have to ask HIM. He kept opening all the doors and I just followed HIS LEAD, and I became that Volunteer Chaplain that started a Prison Ministry in the 1500 man, HOLE (Security Housing Unit) in the new prison that was to house the End of the Line Inmates in the California Dept. of Corrections. I was 9.5 years there, then we moved to another town where I also Volunteered as a Chaplain at another Super-Max prison there for 5.5 years before I retired from the Post Office. I TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY TO DO WHAT I COULD NOT, AND HE WAS FAITHFUL. BORN AGAIN IS VERY REAL, please come to HIM, and willing give HIM control of your Life.

 

[Suzy37]

I DID NOT SAY THE HUMAN SOUL WAS IMMORTAL, I SAID THE HUMAN SPIRIT IS BORN AGAIN IMMORTAL.

Maybe if Adam and Eve never had sinned, they would still be alive today, but the Born Again human spirit is IMMORTAL.


If you do not know, there is a reason:

1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Sorry for me? NO, HE BIRTHED MY HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, I took that

yes , VCO I do know the difference between soul and spirit. Its surprises me you do tho , That also brings us to another false teaching, the Trinity people believe the Holy Spirit is a person a Being , but they are wrong. Gods spirit is His Mind ,His force,His whole being, likewise the spirit of man is his mind, intellect,his whole being.When a person recieves the HS then Gods spirit joins with our human spirit and He reveals spiritual things to us. We then have the mind of Christ IN us, not just with us but now in us and we can understand spiritual things a person without the HS cannot. BUT that human spirit is not immortal, I think God will use each of our own unique human spirit to resurrect us individually! Where do you get the idea that this makes our human spirit immortal?.
Gods mind joined with our mind gives us spiritual knowledge and understanding, not immortality!

This is interesting and more to be said and looked into Im sure . Back tomorrow to do that if you like and TLW.