Is Universalsim in Opposition to the Bible?

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Adstar

Senior Member
#501
Jul 24, 2016
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#501
Lillywolf said:
At this point I think with all the scriptures that refer to God's predeterminism , predestination, foreknowledge, of all things of him and in him, of course including humans, that the best thing to add is the definition of free will. That particulars of which applied to the aforementioned predeterminant factors God has established in the world, as his word tells us, should get the point across in a new way.
Free Will (Noun)
  1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
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Free will is the ability to make an independent decision on any given situation or moral teaching.. As opposed to one being controlled by another entity which takes over ones mental control and forces decisions and actions not willed by the one expressing those thoughts and actions..

Free will is NOT the power of acting without facing possible consequences either positive or negative that may come from a particular decision or action..

So that's what free will is to me..

God who foreknows all History already knows what decisions and actions people are going to pursue out of their own free will.. But He does not force one person to decide or act in one way and force another to decide and act in another way.. Foreknowing what someone is going to do does not mean you are forcing them to do what they are going to do..
 
Sketch

Sketch

Well-known member
#503
Nov 1, 2018
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#503
Adstar said:
Free will is the ability to make an independent decision on any given situation or moral teaching.. As opposed to one being controlled by another entity which takes over ones mental control and forces decisions and actions not willed by the one expressing those thoughts and actions..

Free will is NOT the power of acting without facing possible consequences either positive or negative that may come from a particular decision or action..

So that's what free will is to me..

God who foreknows all History already knows what decisions and actions people are going to pursue out of their own free will.. But He does not force one person to decide or act in one way and force another to decide and act in another way.. Foreknowing what someone is going to do does not mean you are forcing them to do what they are going to do..
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Foreknowledge and predestination are not synonymous. Two different things.

The scripture says: "those God foreknew he also predestined".
Therefore it is not the OUTCOME that he foreknew,
but rather the INDIVIDUAL. "those God foreknew" that "he also predestined".
"And those he predestined, he also called..."

1) The individual is foreknown by God.
2) God predestines them.
3) Those God predestines are also called.
4) The called are also justified, the justified are also glorified.

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
 
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Lillywolf

Well-known member
#504
Aug 29, 2018
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#504
Adstar said:
Free will is the ability to make an independent decision on any given situation or moral teaching.. As opposed to one being controlled by another entity which takes over ones mental control and forces decisions and actions not willed by the one expressing those thoughts and actions..

Free will is NOT the power of acting without facing possible consequences either positive or negative that may come from a particular decision or action..

So that's what free will is to me..

God who foreknows all History already knows what decisions and actions people are going to pursue out of their own free will.. But He does not force one person to decide or act in one way and force another to decide and act in another way.. Foreknowing what someone is going to do does not mean you are forcing them to do what they are going to do..
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The definition of free will is posted. That God is omniscient is without dispute. That his word tells us he foreknows, predestines, and foreordains all that occurs according to his will, for his purposes, and for his glory, is also without dispute because to say we believe God's word is to accept God's words when he tells us these things.

Anything else is demonstration of our unwillingness to accept God at his will, and in the interim create God in our preferred image and likeness of what we prefer to believe about something we call, God.

God said it.
How does someone who believes in God not believe he said it.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#505
Sep 8, 2018
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#505
Lillywolf said:
The definition of free will is posted. That God is omniscient is without dispute. That his word tells us he foreknows, predestines, and foreordains all that occurs according to his will, for his purposes, and for his glory, is also without dispute because to say we believe God's word is to accept God's words when he tells us these things.

Anything else is demonstration of our unwillingness to accept God at his will, and in the interim create God in our preferred image and likeness of what we prefer to believe about something we call, God.

God said it.
How does someone who believes in God not believe he said it.
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Wait what.

I thought calvinism is teaching that God predestinates people to salvation, sets up Kings and things. Basically He predestinates SOME things like the salvation of people etc, but not that God predestinates a mosquito biting me or me wearing a white t-shirt?

Any calvinist want to answer me on this? Am I right in my understanding or is it that even me wearing a white t-shirt is predestinated? That would seem ODD to say the least.
 
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Lillywolf

Well-known member
#507
Aug 29, 2018
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#507
Hevosmies said:
Wait what.

I thought calvinism is teaching that God predestinates people to salvation, sets up Kings and things. Basically He predestinates SOME things like the salvation of people etc, but not that God predestinates a mosquito biting me or me wearing a white t-shirt?

Any calvinist want to answer me on this? Am I right in my understanding or is it that even me wearing a white t-shirt is predestinated? That would seem ODD to say the least.
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I'm still not a Calvinist. Any sister or brother in Christ here who state they are not a Calvinist are not a Calvinist. Anyone who claims they are after that is not credible and are bearing false witness. Anyone who follows a tradition is going to admit to it. There's nothing to fear. They would be insulting their life's time being one thing and then denying they are so when confronted. This isn't the era of the Catholic nor the Protestant inquisition. We do not have to be afraid of what we believe. Even though we do have to witness people calling us liars when we tell them what we do not believe.

By the way, just to give Calvin haters something to do because it gets a little old after awhile, it isn't just Calvinists that teach Predestination. (Besides all those scriptures that do so and are the source therefore for where John Calvin, a Theologian, and other traditions get their understanding.) And no, I won't list them. Those interested to find that out, take time away from bashing Calvin and imagined Calvinists here and seek them out. They're very easy to find.

Hevosmies, Your remarks have no semblance of relationship to my remarks to Adstar at all.
 
Sketch

Sketch

Well-known member
#508
Nov 1, 2018
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#508
Lillywolf said:
Anything else is demonstration of our unwillingness to accept God at his will, and in the interim create God in our preferred image and likeness of what we prefer to believe about something we call, God.
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That sounds backwards somehow. But I think I follow what you are trying to say.
Was it Tozer that said having the wrong concept of who God is equates to idolatry. (worshiping something that isn't God)
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#509
Sep 8, 2018
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#509
Lillywolf said:
I'm still not a Calvinist. Any sister or brother in Christ here who state they are not a Calvinist are not a Calvinist. Anyone who claims they are after that is not credible and are bearing false witness. Anyone who follows a tradition is going to admit to it. There's nothing to fear. They would be insulting their life's time being one thing and then denying they are so when confronted. This isn't the era of the Catholic nor the Protestant inquisition. We do not have to be afraid of what we believe. Even though we do have to witness people calling us liars when we tell them what we do not believe.

By the way, just to give Calvin haters something to do because it gets a little old after awhile, it isn't just Calvinists that teach Predestination. (Besides all those scriptures that do so and are the source therefore for where John Calvin, a Theologian, and other traditions get their understanding.) And no, I won't list them. Those interested to find that out, take time away from bashing Calvin and imagined Calvinists here and seek them out. They're very easy to find.

Hevosmies, Your remarks have no semblance of relationship to my remarks to Adstar at all.
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i didnt call you a calvinist. NEXT
 
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Lillywolf

Well-known member
#511
Aug 29, 2018
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#511
oldethennew said:
don't ever 'dumb-down', this is the 'bottom of the barrel', so to speak!!!

one has to wonder, why??? would some go to such lengths???

the 'Formula' is quite narrow, to say the least, and so the
motives become apparent to some, and to some others
they will eventually 'un-veil' their hidden 'beliefs!...
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To whom are you speaking please? It's hard to tell when sheeps masks are falling at the rate they are in this particular thread.
 
L

Lillywolf

Well-known member
#512
Aug 29, 2018
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#512
Hevosmies said:
i didnt call you a calvinist. NEXT
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OK , here's what's next. You quoted my post that was addressed to Adstar. You weren't actually intending to speak to me when you quoted me with your Calvinist observations because my post that you quoted above has not one iota of worthy response from a Calvinist perspective or charge. Get it right when you talk to someone and that way you may not waste your typing on throwing snark at one who answered your error regardless.

And writing in lower case doesn't look good for you.
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#515
Jul 24, 2016
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#515
Lillywolf said:
The definition of free will is posted. That God is omniscient is without dispute. That his word tells us he foreknows, predestines, and foreordains all that occurs according to his will, for his purposes, and for his glory, is also without dispute because to say we believe God's word is to accept God's words when he tells us these things.

Anything else is demonstration of our unwillingness to accept God at his will, and in the interim create God in our preferred image and likeness of what we prefer to believe about something we call, God.

God said it.
How does someone who believes in God not believe he said it.
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Once again it is your interpretation of what He declared that i disagree with.. No point stating the Positon i hold again,, i have already given it.. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one..
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#516
Jul 24, 2016
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#516
BibleloverBill said:
The things you stated about the Lake of Fire are not in the Bible.
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You need to state more then that..

Explain why it is not Biblical..

Simply making an accusation with no Biblical back up is meaningless..
 
prove-all

prove-all

Senior Member
#517
May 16, 2014
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#517
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days,
nor an old man that hath not filled his days:

-both young and old, all who never heard the name of Jesus in there lifetime,
or people that was blinded, or was not called, or was given the "spirit of slumber"
will be resurected to mortal life then. On "The Last Great Day of The Feast"

Pictured in the Seventh and last Holy day, one of Gods convocations.

"for the child shall die an hundred years old;
but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

-Both young and old will live a hundred years,
Both are given The water [spirit] freely,
both need to grow in Christ or be accursed.

One might become no more, the other changed and live forever.
This is right before "the New Heavens and Earth" happens
-

Those called today, and given the Holy Spirit , but then fall away,
not much else left for them to look forward to.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#518
Jul 31, 2013
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#518
Adstar said:
God who foreknows all History already knows what decisions and actions people are going to pursue out of their own free will.. But He does not force one person to decide or act in one way and force another to decide and act in another way.. Foreknowing what someone is going to do does not mean you are forcing them to do what they are going to do..
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so, what is prophecy?

God reading tomorrow's newspaper today? or does He bring it about?
are their instances of both?
 
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Lillywolf

Well-known member
#519
Aug 29, 2018
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#519
Adstar said:
Once again it is your interpretation of what He declared that i disagree with.. No point stating the Positon i hold again,, i have already given it.. So we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one..
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People disagree with God all the time. Yes, we'll agree to disagree.
 
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Lillywolf

Well-known member
#520
Aug 29, 2018
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#520
Adstar said:
You need to state more then that..

Explain why it is not Biblical..

Simply making an accusation with no Biblical back up is meaningless..
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Given all the Biblical backup that you've ignored here already, why would it be necessary to post more so you can ignore that too?
 
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