(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 31 64.6%

  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 16 33.3%

  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Total voters
    48
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
#21
Poinsetta said:
I think He’s preparing a Kingdom and He is choosing us to be a part of it because we will be useful somehow and we will be good stewards of His power and Glory. So i think He is looking for ‘useful’ people in whom He can use to manifest and bring His Glory forth.
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So he choses us based on how good we can be?
 
X

Xethea

Member
#23
Aug 12, 2013
306
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#23
eternally-gratefull said:
People who go to hell because they chose to reject grace..Many of them God tried to draw also. See Israel. Where jesus himself said they were not willing
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So it is clear, your choice is we choose God but he gives us strength. Got it.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#24
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
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#24
calibob said:
I can't and don't speak for others. My experience was when I was in my mid 20's I merely hoped god was real. I was not convinced then when I prayed to the God I was not sure was real to come into my life and prove it to me. He did. And everything began to change. I'm a sinner saved by grace but I asked HIM into MY life. I wasn't blinded walking down the road like Saul of Tarsus but I had to humble myself to Jesus of Nazareth first whom I didn't believe in and the Holy Spirit came upon me and within me. I've been praising the Lord ever since that night. I was born as sinner by nature but was changed. I asked and he responded. That's all I feel moved to say! PTL!
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Sounds like you didn't have what you needed and he did something to give you the strength to want to be saved then you chose him.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#25
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
28
#25
Poinsetta said:
I think He’s preparing a Kingdom and He is choosing us to be a part of it because we will be useful somehow and we will be good stewards of His power and Glory. So i think He is looking for ‘useful’ people in whom He can use to manifest and bring His Glory forth.
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When you say how useful we are, does that somehow mean we are not made equal? Or is this a physical perspective of being useful? What do you think about "Through Christ all things are possible?" Because if anyone is saved and by Christ all things are possible, can't we all do the same and be used the same or in any possible way? I'm not disagreeing, just checking what you think
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
#26
Poinsetta said:
Sort of. Cuz He knows us more than us. He knows what we are capable of.
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Then he shows favoritism.

To me God can take a stone and turn it into anythign he wants. it would not matter if I have it in me to do good or not. (Accoridng to th ebible we can’t anyway) He can make me a person who can do his will.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#27
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
28
#27
eternally-gratefull said:
Then he shows favoritism.

To me God can take a stone and turn it into anythign he wants. it would not matter if I have it in me to do good or not. (Accoridng to th ebible we can’t anyway) He can make me a person who can do his will.
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What do you think about "God loved Jacob but hated Esau?"
Is that or is that not favoritism?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
#28
Xethea said:
So it is clear, your choice is we choose God but he gives us strength. Got it.
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No you do not have it

To be clear. I chose God because GOD TOOK ALL MY STRENGTH (The TAX collector had nothing left. He had no strength at all. Thats why he cried out.. in despair..

Please do not try to interpret my words. This is the second or third time you got it wrong.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#29
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
28
#29
eternally-gratefull said:
Then he shows favoritism.

To me God can take a stone and turn it into anythign he wants. it would not matter if I have it in me to do good or not. (Accoridng to th ebible we can’t anyway) He can make me a person who can do his will.
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Scripture seemed to state there that God chose Jacob but not Esau. is that true?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
#30
Xethea said:
What do you think about "God loved Jacob but hated Esau?"
Is that or is that not favoritism?
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A typical hebrew idiom

God did not love Esau as much as he loved Jacob (IE he loved Esau LESS than jacob, (the word or term hated is a bad translation)
We see in in christs words. he tells us to love and honor our parents and puse and children. Then said we must hate them or we have no part with God.

He did nto tell us to sin, He told us to love HIM more than we love our family

Ps. The words in ROmans 9 refered to the NATIONS of Isreal and Edom (Jacob and Esau) not the two children..Paul quoted the OT. Look to the OT quote for context.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
Xethea said:
Scripture seemed to state there that God chose Jacob but not Esau. is that true?
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God chose Jacob as an heir to abraham to recieve the promises he promised to abraham

he di dnto chose to save Jacob and sent Esau to hell..

That interpretation of romans 9 is flawed
 
X

Xethea

Member
#32
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
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#32
eternally-gratefull said:
No you do not have it

To be clear. I chose God because GOD TOOK ALL MY STRENGTH (The TAX collector had nothing left. He had no strength at all. Thats why he cried out.. in despair..

Please do not try to interpret my words. This is the second or third time you got it wrong.
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Will you please just tell me your answer from what I posted? It cannot be anything else. There is only us and God. Someone must choose, and if we are incapable, then God must help us or else there is no other way to receive salvation.

Either God forces it or he doesn't. Either we choose alone or we choose by help. What you are describing can be misunderstood, but it sounds like you say God helps us because we cannot help ourselves to choose, and once he does then we choose God.

If not, just quit explaining and answer the question or else we cannot be 100% sure what your answer is. We want an answer
 
P

Poinsetta

Well-known member
#33
Nov 24, 2018
10,646
6,217
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#33
Xethea said:
When you say how useful we are, does that somehow mean we are not made equal? Or is this a physical perspective of being useful? What do you think about "Through Christ all things are possible?" Because if anyone is saved and by Christ all things are possible, can't we all do the same and be used the same or in any possible way? I'm not disagreeing, just checking what you think
Click to expand...

Well no because we are all different parts of the body of Christ but its simply my opinion i know i’ll be corrected if i am wrong.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#34
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
28
#34
eternally-gratefull said:
A typical hebrew idiom

God did not love Esau as much as he loved Jacob (IE he loved Esau LESS than jacob, (the word or term hated is a bad translation)
We see in in christs words. he tells us to love and honor our parents and puse and children. Then said we must hate them or we have no part with God.

He did nto tell us to sin, He told us to love HIM more than we love our family

Ps. The words in ROmans 9 refered to the NATIONS of Isreal and Edom (Jacob and Esau) not the two children..Paul quoted the OT. Look to the OT quote for context.
Click to expand...
So God loves some more than others? You agree it was favoritism then?

If I tell me daughter I love her brother more, everyone will see that my son is my favorite
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
#35
Xethea said:
Will you please just tell me your answer from what I posted? It cannot be anything else. There is only us and God. Someone must choose, and if we are incapable, then God must help us or else there is no other way to receive salvation.

Either God forces it or he doesn't. Either we choose alone or we choose by help. What you are describing can be misunderstood, but it sounds like you say God helps us because we cannot help ourselves to choose, and once he does then we choose God.

If not, just quit explaining and answer the question or else we cannot be 100% sure what your answer is. We want an answer
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Dude, What is so hard about what I said

You asked, Did I chose God. - My Answer YES!!

You asked, Did I chose God out of my goodness - My answer NO!

You asked. Did I chose god out of my own strength - My Answer - NO

What is so hard about what I am saying, unless your FISHING for an answer? In which case, you will NEVER understand my point..
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
#36
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#36
Xethea said:
Sounds like you didn't have what you needed and he did something to give you the strength to want to be saved then you chose him.
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Yes and amen! Of my own free will or by agreement I might add. I can't speak for others but that's what happened to me. I may have agreed to follow him I didn't hear him calling. I was too busy listening to my own thoughts then.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
#37
Xethea said:
So God loves some more than others? You agree it was favoritism then?

If I tell me daughter I love her brother more, everyone will see that my son is my favorite
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God spoke of two nations. Not two children.

He did love Isreal as a special nation. More than he loved Edom.

Trying to us this to say God had favorites and chose some to save, and others he di dnot favor to send to hell is a wrong application.
 
P

Poinsetta

Well-known member
#38
Nov 24, 2018
10,646
6,217
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#38
They were just condemned but few people find grace.
 
X

Xethea

Member
#39
Aug 12, 2013
306
75
28
#39
eternally-gratefull said:
God spoke of two nations. Not two children.

He did love Isreal as a special nation. More than he loved Edom.

Trying to us this to say God had favorites and chose some to save, and others he di dnot favor to send to hell is a wrong application.
Click to expand...
So when God said Jacob, he wasn't literally referring to Jacob? And the same with Esau? If God loves anything or anyone more than something else, it shows he has favoritism for something then, right? What would make him love Israel more than Edom? The plants? The animals there? The shape of the country? Or the people there? Or he just chooses to for no reason?
 
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