Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning
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All of mankind inherited the sinful nature of Adam. All were totally depraved until God regenerated his elect. Just because we are born again does not mean that we do not still carry the baggage of that sinful nature, as explained by Paul in the Galatians letter. Does this answer your question? All born again people do, at times, yield themselves to the temptations of that nature. If you fail to realize how depraved you are, you are not worshiping God in truth. Psalms 51:17 - The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart.
I'm certain this diatribe was pointed at me since I used Acts 20:27.
For the record I didn't use the verse to describe me, but to show that the Gospel and its truths are out in the open. Not sure why you went off like that, but perhaps you're so blinded with anger you can't see straight?
Agreed! You didn't join until after.
But the thing is they gave you their teaching prior to you joining them. Then you went home and convinced yourself of the PB truths they planted in your brain. Then you went back to join their ranks and receive the praise of man "for coming up with the truth all on your own when you lost yourself." You did not come up with that on your own, you were taught it by man. Nothing wrong with being taught by man, by the way.
So this notion that you weren't taught it of man is not even close to the truth. You learned it from man, some elders at a PB church.
Not quite, I was a preacher prior to any formal study. I was converted upon hearing the Gospel in 1987 prior to any education.
As far as the education I received, this was from so called "arminian doctrine" and all along I was not in total agreement nor was I comfortable with their gospel, its view of God, or view of man. After being confronted with the doctrines of Grace, and being convinced of these truths in the past I held to these truths by the grace of God and rejected the former teachings.
He sure did, but that's not your path, you learned your gospel from the PB's. It was not by special revelation as you continue to attempt to assert. Quit trying to be so humbly proud, you heard it from PB's then bought in.
I'd be more than glad to discuss the Scriptures with you, but the problem is you've been telling several lies about my beliefs and person I've had to address them since that was "your choice" to do so. I'm not the only person calling you on your behavior, so, why not admit it, apologize and end it?
And not only that, I've given you Scriptures, and context and you've said nothing about them. Instead you went on to insult, just like this post here.
Want civil discussion? Answer the contextual Scriptures and lose your false accusations. My op and thread was civil, and objective, you need to please follow suit. For the record I don't hate nor do I despise you as a human made in God's image, it is your teaching I am against, not you. I'm not sitting here lying about you.
For the record I didn't use the verse to describe me, but to show that the Gospel and its truths are out in the open. Not sure why you went off like that, but perhaps you're so blinded with anger you can't see straight?
Agreed! You didn't join until after.
But the thing is they gave you their teaching prior to you joining them. Then you went home and convinced yourself of the PB truths they planted in your brain. Then you went back to join their ranks and receive the praise of man "for coming up with the truth all on your own when you lost yourself." You did not come up with that on your own, you were taught it by man. Nothing wrong with being taught by man, by the way.
So this notion that you weren't taught it of man is not even close to the truth. You learned it from man, some elders at a PB church.
Not quite, I was a preacher prior to any formal study. I was converted upon hearing the Gospel in 1987 prior to any education.
As far as the education I received, this was from so called "arminian doctrine" and all along I was not in total agreement nor was I comfortable with their gospel, its view of God, or view of man. After being confronted with the doctrines of Grace, and being convinced of these truths in the past I held to these truths by the grace of God and rejected the former teachings.
He sure did, but that's not your path, you learned your gospel from the PB's. It was not by special revelation as you continue to attempt to assert. Quit trying to be so humbly proud, you heard it from PB's then bought in.
I'd be more than glad to discuss the Scriptures with you, but the problem is you've been telling several lies about my beliefs and person I've had to address them since that was "your choice" to do so. I'm not the only person calling you on your behavior, so, why not admit it, apologize and end it?
And not only that, I've given you Scriptures, and context and you've said nothing about them. Instead you went on to insult, just like this post here.
Want civil discussion? Answer the contextual Scriptures and lose your false accusations. My op and thread was civil, and objective, you need to please follow suit. For the record I don't hate nor do I despise you as a human made in God's image, it is your teaching I am against, not you. I'm not sitting here lying about you.
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Yes, I corrected your accusation brother. My friend, I have not lied about you.
Several times you've said what "we" believe and attempts to correct you were offered.
Is it possible dear friend that you've been told what we believe, and are bringing those presuppositions in your polemic?
Is it then possible that you could be wrong in your assertions at least concerning myself and other Calvinist brothers in this thread?
Can I tell you that yes, some others do believe the things you've stated (the natural man can basically save himself by his will, sinless perfection &c) but that no true Calvinist believes these things? Therefore you're incorrect in saying we believe them? Is that fair?
Several times you've said what "we" believe and attempts to correct you were offered.
Is it possible dear friend that you've been told what we believe, and are bringing those presuppositions in your polemic?
Is it then possible that you could be wrong in your assertions at least concerning myself and other Calvinist brothers in this thread?
Can I tell you that yes, some others do believe the things you've stated (the natural man can basically save himself by his will, sinless perfection &c) but that no true Calvinist believes these things? Therefore you're incorrect in saying we believe them? Is that fair?
You are continually asserting that I was taught by some elders of the Primitive Baptist Church. What are you basing your claims on? Were you an eye witness to that fact? You throw blame at me with ease without knowing the facts and just assume that I am lying. I, in fact, did not set foot within a Primitive Baptist Church, or talk to one of their elders until after 12 years of intense studying and had given up on understanding the scriptures to not contradict each other and that is when it was revealed to me from my past studying. Someone told me that the Primitive Baptist taught the doctrine that I had come to understand and I give God the credit for it. We both may need to apologize. I know that I have come back on you a little strong and I am sure it was out of retaliation, which is a sinful attitude. We are instructed to defend the doctrine with meekness.
So you know what I must ask you? The same things? Were you an eyewitness of myself? There is no way you came up with pure PB teaching having never heard of it before. I was born in the morning, just not this morning. 
I am only calling you out for bearing false witness and saying what I believe when attempts were made to correct you.
Come on, man! First off, this isn't Biblical methodology or ways of God these days, he did this with Paul, apostles and prophets. Instead he has equipped the church for this and we do learn from man, something you loathe at least to the point of presenting yourself as having received special personal revelation.
Where did you go to church when you say Scripture contradicted themselves in those then held beliefs? Something isn't adding up right bro, there is more to it. It's not like you're an apostle and received direct revelation and that "somehow" you used PB catch phrases and terminology after receiving it.
Here is another thing. You say the so-called great commission was given to the apostles and fulfilled and was for them. Right?
This is PB teaching though. Yet you claim the exhortation of Christ that the Spirit would lead them into all truth, making that truth applicable to yourself, correct? But that is an inconsistent hermeneutic -- it is cherry picking Scripture. How so? Through the PB lens brother because they teach the exact same thing! You cannot lay claim to one thing given them then reject the other, and the reason you reject the one and not the other is because it is PB indoctrination coming through.
I'm saying no way. Not trying to offend, I just do not buy it -- you heard something and went with it. You did not receive a Pauline like special revelation you were reading materials, seeing it on the web, you got it somewhere.
This too, there is contradiction in your understanding, these have been addressed, so you have not harmonized all of Scripture which tells me that from the get go you got it all from PB's because that too is one of their cliches.
I've not lied about you or your beliefs. But, you want me to apologize? Brother, I have not misrepresented one belief of the PB's. I am a sinner, yes, for sure, but that isn't what I am doing here in this thread.
I am only calling you out for bearing false witness and saying what I believe when attempts were made to correct you.
Come on, man! First off, this isn't Biblical methodology or ways of God these days, he did this with Paul, apostles and prophets. Instead he has equipped the church for this and we do learn from man, something you loathe at least to the point of presenting yourself as having received special personal revelation.
Where did you go to church when you say Scripture contradicted themselves in those then held beliefs? Something isn't adding up right bro, there is more to it. It's not like you're an apostle and received direct revelation and that "somehow" you used PB catch phrases and terminology after receiving it.
Here is another thing. You say the so-called great commission was given to the apostles and fulfilled and was for them. Right?
This is PB teaching though. Yet you claim the exhortation of Christ that the Spirit would lead them into all truth, making that truth applicable to yourself, correct? But that is an inconsistent hermeneutic -- it is cherry picking Scripture. How so? Through the PB lens brother because they teach the exact same thing! You cannot lay claim to one thing given them then reject the other, and the reason you reject the one and not the other is because it is PB indoctrination coming through.
I'm saying no way. Not trying to offend, I just do not buy it -- you heard something and went with it. You did not receive a Pauline like special revelation you were reading materials, seeing it on the web, you got it somewhere.
This too, there is contradiction in your understanding, these have been addressed, so you have not harmonized all of Scripture which tells me that from the get go you got it all from PB's because that too is one of their cliches.
I've not lied about you or your beliefs. But, you want me to apologize? Brother, I have not misrepresented one belief of the PB's. I am a sinner, yes, for sure, but that isn't what I am doing here in this thread.
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I must reiterate that I've not thrown any assumptions, none, about PB beliefs. I cannot brother say that about you toward us.
And you never addressed this: I stated some may believe what you assert, yet we Calvinists do not believe the things you've asserted on us. Why not man up and own up that you are incorrect? You want an honest discussion without owning up to the things you've said that are false.
You've also not owned the fact that repentance and faith are NOT works of man. You're incorrect in this, and you need to accept that.
But said is a teaching that is foundational to all your other beliefs. All you've done since is dismiss it as unimportant when shown to be incorrect. This is why I continue to show you that you merely skip past these important factors and won't look at the error you're being shown.
That isn't being forthright brother. It is THE foundation of your rejection of belief in the Gospel being to eternal salvation. THE foundation because the reason you reject it is because you say, wrongly, those are works of man so the belief via the Gospel cannot be eternal salvation. So far you just want to brush that under the rug along with other things. I'm really trying brother, you just cannot brush these things off.
And you never addressed this: I stated some may believe what you assert, yet we Calvinists do not believe the things you've asserted on us. Why not man up and own up that you are incorrect? You want an honest discussion without owning up to the things you've said that are false.
You've also not owned the fact that repentance and faith are NOT works of man. You're incorrect in this, and you need to accept that.
But said is a teaching that is foundational to all your other beliefs. All you've done since is dismiss it as unimportant when shown to be incorrect. This is why I continue to show you that you merely skip past these important factors and won't look at the error you're being shown.
That isn't being forthright brother. It is THE foundation of your rejection of belief in the Gospel being to eternal salvation. THE foundation because the reason you reject it is because you say, wrongly, those are works of man so the belief via the Gospel cannot be eternal salvation. So far you just want to brush that under the rug along with other things. I'm really trying brother, you just cannot brush these things off.
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Okay, well I have interacted with a fellow on Facebook who used to be a preacher in a Pentecostal church who now goes to a Pentecostal beliefs. He seemed to have much appreciation for the conservative dress of women in the movement. He also said something along the lines of being born again first and therefore believing.
How are beliefs different from 'standard' Calvinist or Reformed beliefs?
Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, or just the faith comes after being saved?
Is there any room for evangelism or missions in the Primitive Baptist movement? It seems to be kind of small, and if it is anti-missions, that would explain one reason why. It grew out of the same general movement that grew out of the Sandy Creek Baptist church in North Carolina, like the Southern Baptists, Missionary Baptists, Free Will Baptists, etc.
How are beliefs different from 'standard' Calvinist or Reformed beliefs?
Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, or just the faith comes after being saved?
Is there any room for evangelism or missions in the Primitive Baptist movement? It seems to be kind of small, and if it is anti-missions, that would explain one reason why. It grew out of the same general movement that grew out of the Sandy Creek Baptist church in North Carolina, like the Southern Baptists, Missionary Baptists, Free Will Baptists, etc.