The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

[eternally-gratefull]

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:1-2

Pretrib teaching is false and therefore satanic. The tribulation began some time in the middle of the 20th century, the Beginning of Sorrows spoken about by Christ in Matthew 24 began with 'earthquakes in diverse places'. The Church is asleep and infected with poisonous teachings...meanwhile Christians are being slaughtered en masse throughout the world while the West continues to claim that no harm will come to the Christians...

Ok dude, Stop with the nonsense. This is not a salvic doctrine, trying to divide the church by calling people belief satanic is not right.

Tribulation has not yet began. It will begin WHEN we see the abomination of desolation. Lets take Gods word for what it says and try not to add to it ok?

Scripture says satan will attaxck the children of the woman (the gentile believers who are saved) and he will go after them hard. They will be beheaded. The fear will be so great families will turn each other in because they fear for their own life. Then the wrld will be required to take a mark, if they do not. They not only can not buy food, they will be executed.
No one says that christians willnot durring tribulation. So get off that its not true

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The rapture happens on the day of the second coming of our LORD Jesus Christ..

The rapture comes when God himself comes to meet us in the clouds. Not when he comes to destroy the final world empire and satan

 

[lukeabers]

Oh wow.

This really supports post trib (shaking my head)
Do you have anything to offer. Or will you just attack people beliefs with “it is nonsense”

There is far more evidence of some pre end of tribulation rapture than the fact God says we are not destined for wrath. If that was the ONY evidence pre-tribbers had, I would agree with you. But it is not.

Ok, you must understand, this place is infested. The way I treat one person to the next does not depend on their statements, it depends on their motives. Your motives seem genuine...and so, I will walk not just the mile you ask but the extra mile as well.

The pre/mid/post debate is a farce. You have to understand, our enemy is ancient, does not sleep, does not eat...the deceit runs deep...so, how do we ever win? Duh, faith in God, salvation and mediation through Christ, and wisdom from the Holy Spirit anchored in the Word of God sent down to us across the ages.

The end has already begun...well, back sometime around 1945 to be more specific.

Earthquakes in diverse places, the beginning of sorrows, Mathew 24. This marks the beginning of the end. The first seal, broken. The end times, not a neat 7 years, perhaps a 7 year period as a grand finale, but, it has begun. Go ahead, test me, ask me for the evidence throughout Scripture. Give me your best shots.

 

[lukeabers]

Ok dude, Stop with the nonsense. This is not a salvic doctrine, trying to divide the church by calling people belief satanic is not right.

Tribulation has not yet began. It will begin WHEN we see the abomination of desolation. Lets take Gods word for what it says and try not to add to it ok?

Scripture says satan will attaxck the children of the woman (the gentile believers who are saved) and he will go after them hard. They will be beheaded. The fear will be so great families will turn each other in because they fear for their own life. Then the wrld will be required to take a mark, if they do not. They not only can not buy food, they will be executed.
No one says that christians willnot durring tribulation. So get off that its not true

You do not understand what has been going on for centuries. Biblical doctrine is so infected, it is mind boggling. Simply read the Word as is. When something is vague, complicated, go into the Hebrew, Greek. You have been wildly misled. Even the elect, if it were possible...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, you must understand, this place is infested. The way I treat one person to the next does not depend on their statements, it depends on their motives. Your motives seem genuine...and so, I will walk not just the mile you ask but the extra mile as well.

The pre/mid/post debate is a farce. You have to understand, our enemy is ancient, does not sleep, does not eat...the deceit runs deep...so, how do we ever win? Duh, faith in God, salvation and mediation through Christ, and wisdom from the Holy Spirit anchored in the Word of God sent down to us across the ages.

The end has already begun...well, back sometime around 1945 to be more specific.

Earthquakes in diverse places, the beginning of sorrows, Mathew 24. This marks the beginning of the end. The first seal, broken. The end times, not a neat 7 years, perhaps a 7 year period as a grand finale, but, it has begun. Go ahead, test me, ask me for the evidence throughout Scripture. Give me your best shots.

I agree that we are in the last day. The birth pangs have started, and are getting stronger and more frequent. The setting in the middle east is coming to where it needs to be (they even have everything that they could build the temple now and start sactrificing any day, which opens the door for the abomination of desolation Daniel spoke of and Christ refered to when he told us of the start of great tribulation of time of Jacobs trouble) I am with ya manQ

But to say the pre - mid. - post debate is a farce is nonsensical.

I have studied all three for years. And post trib has the second least scriptural support of all theologies of eschatololical belief (the first is Amill) that I have found in my years of study.

I grew up pre-trib, But in my studies, alot of the things I have been taught had been proven to be in error (ike Isreal saved by law, and then returning to law in trib, and that only the church will be raptured. Not Israel) But I still see no evidence of a post trib rapture. There is just to much against it.

I will never (if I do I need chastened) condemn anyone for their views. (I know in heat of moment we can do things we would not normally do) but i do love these conversations. What I hate is strawman attacks (this is satanic. Your blind, This belief is from the pits of hell. You do not know the word of God etc etc) We should be discussing our views (that is all they are) and hopefully learning from each other and about each other. Not attacking them.

Its one thing to attack a false gospel which leads people to hell. It is another to attack a brother who believes a different view on exchatology. THAT is from satan. As HE wants to divide.

Sadly, these conversations ALWAYS turn that way. I just pray we can speak as brothers. Not like most do who think they are Gods gift and know it all..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not understand what has been going on for centuries. Biblical doctrine is so infected, it is mind boggling. Simply read the Word as is. When something is vague, complicated, go into the Hebrew, Greek. You have been wildly misled. Even the elect, if it were possible...

Again I agree.

But this does not make post trib correct.

We have the bible, we can study and read and come to truth, we aso have our views. And we can discuss these views without attacking each other.

I would rather agree to disagree with a brother. Than attack each other, thats what the world sees, and Satan uses this to turn people from wanting to have anythign to do with us, its awefull what he has done to the church and those in it to cause these hated and heated debates.

 

[louis]

"The Church which is His body" has experienced "tribulations" and "persecutions" since its beginning (and all through its existence on the earth). The Thessalonians did. Paul acknowledged this (2Th1:4). We are not awaiting a [future] specific time period in order to experience it (otherwise, the majority of "the body of Christ" will have died [and has died] before it even commences). OUR tribulations and persecutions occur now (and have all through the Church's existence on the earth [i.e. "this present age [singular]"]). We're not avoiding that fact. That is not the reason we hold to pre-trib, to somehow [wish to] "escape" that future specific time period/or any tribulations/persecutions.

I agree, the true church of Christ, those who live His Way have been through tribulation and death since the Church's existence.
However, for the Lord to refer to a great tribulation, it appears that it will be on another level than were prior tribulations.
I don't know how it could be worse than being thrown to the lions in the Coliseum, but who knows?

 

[lukeabers]

Again I agree.

But this does not make post trib correct.

We have the bible, we can study and read and come to truth, we aso have our views. And we can discuss these views without attacking each other.

I would rather agree to disagree with a brother. Than attack each other, thats what the world sees, and Satan uses this to turn people from wanting to have anythign to do with us, its awefull what he has done to the church and those in it to cause these hated and heated debates.

These people are not your brothers, friend. Notice my change in demeanor. I can't spot every wolf, but boy, I've gotten a pretty good eye for them. Got a little wolf in myself, I suppose.

Here with a sword, brother. Making lines in the sand, turning tables. Things are getting heated in the world, time to wake up!!

 

[Absolutely]

RE 11 Thes 2;6 the reference to 'he' and 'his' both are used to denote a he, him, her, and they. It's something that has the power to hold back the ac reign. So it could be the Holy Spirit, the body of Christ (the Church) or someone else. There are a lot of Christians all over the world and speaking for myself I hope I would b able to discern a deceptive character coming out. The believers would surly peg this guy yeah and some will b fooled.

We saw it with obama. A black pastor i know very very well bevame a obama-ite. I saw him in line and greeted him enthusiastically. He started screaming at me about obama. Made a scene.
He is a pastor....and decieved.

 

[lukeabers]

We saw it with obama. A black pastor i know very very well bevame a obama-ite. I saw him in line and greeted him enthusiastically. He started screaming at me about obama. Made a scene.
He is a pastor....and decieved.

You are surrounded by so many wolves, I may mistake you for a wolf. You aware of testing the fruits? About being wise? Well, I am certainly not seeing it...

And, oh yea, Obama was a terrible president, but then, it's been that way for quite some time.

 

[Absolutely]

lol, i suppose there's some arguing post and others pre and so if someone says something out of rhythm they just have to be on the opposing side. In all of this though there are also some who are just following along with the thread and observing the two as they debate "lukewarm' so to speak.

I suppose it's is a little odd to you that none will address the 10 virgins(you keep asking,lol) but it all depends on who it is they were told to go to and buy("go to those who sell and buy") and why is if they go to them to buy and Rev.18:13 says Babylon is who sold the oil. Now if the 5 do go to those who sell and buy they would then need to buy and sell with the mark because none could buy and sell without it(Rev.13:17). But now is this "pre or post", how is it that the 5 virgins go to the wedding before the beast,his mark and Babylon who sells the oil are there and they are there selling the oil when they go to the wedding?

Not that I am answering for the post trib. position I would rather them do so themselves my point in the post you quoted is that Rev. 5:... explains that none could loose the seals or look on it then says the Lamb that was slain was found worthy "because he was slain" so is it reasonable to think that Jesus spoke of the contents of the sealed scroll in the four Gospels before he was slain?

In that parable,buying oil,is similar to buying gold in the seven letters to seven churches.
Neither get any favor with God over worldly commodities.
Both are metaphors.
Oil= Holy Spirit
Gold= precious fruit of repentance

But yeah,they will not go there.
The heart of heaven becomes the death of their doctrine

 

[Absolutely]

Whatever you personally believe about the Holy Spirit there are many in the Pre Trib Camp who have preached and written over the past decades that the Holy Spirit leaves with the church at the rapture its not just what I'm suggesting . I didn't get the idea out of thin air. I am an ex pre tribber and that popular idea was one of many reasons I became one.

I am pretrib and can easily defend my position. So easy.
I do not need that ingrediant at all.
It is,concerning the debate, a non issue.
So you went off track,over a non issue.

 

[lukeabers]

I am pretrib and can easily defend my position. So easy.
I do not need that ingrediant at all.
It is,concerning the debate, a non issue.
So you went off track,over a non issue.

Defend it to me then. Your best shot(s). I'm ready.

 

[Absolutely]

You are surrounded by so many wolves, I may mistake you for a wolf. You aware of testing the fruits? About being wise? Well, I am certainly not seeing it...

And, oh yea, Obama was a terrible president, but then, it's been that way for quite some time.

Just been around a long time.
I could care less what anyone thinks about me personally.
In life,that is what the very best of us get.
We are guaranteed to be mis understood and called names.
Christianity,in its intended surrender and radicall-ness is not for the weak or worldly.

 

[lukeabers]

Just been around a long time.
I could care less what anyone thinks about me personally.
In life,that is what the very best of us get.
We are guaranteed to be mis understood and called names.
Christianity,in its intended surrender and radicall-ness is not for the weak or worldly.

I'm agreeing with you but you are missing my point. Some of the people you are currently speaking to on the board are not what they seem. Start testing some fruits, press them, and let the Spirit guide you. Don't get caught up with gnat-strainers and whitened sepulchers, Christendom has some serious issues at hand, no time for distractions.

 

[Absolutely]

Defend it to me then. Your best shot(s). I'm ready.

As if i already haven't.
It is in this thread.
Pick one and go.
Try on one of our verses . we have many
You are yet to,in all these pages,show me a single verse.
NOTHING.
But try on the last supper dialog.
Or anything bride/groom oriented.
(Postribs veer away from any of those components)

 

[lukeabers]

As if i already haven't.
It is in this thread.
Pick one and go.
Try on one of our verses . we have many
You are yet to,in all these pages,show me a single verse.
NOTHING.
But try on the last supper dialog.
Or anything bride/groom oriented.
(Postribs veer away from any of those components)

Alright, how about this. I'll prove A incorrect by proving B correct instead, making A de facto incorrect. Alright? This might be painful, but the truth almost always hurts at first.

The beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24, that is speaking about the beginning of the end times. Earthquakes in diverse places. Already happening...has been happening since the advent of nuclear weapons, and consequently gives us the codex for the first 5 seals.

Don't know when you think the rapture is supposed to happen, but the game is already on and has been on for some time. Somehow, Christendom has been...asleep!?!? Mortifying.

By all means, tell me my reading of Matthew 24 is wrong. That Christ is not saying what I can clearly read Him saying. By all means...

 

[presidente]

Idt you know what being a father is, let along our Heavenly Father.

Do you believe God will been Father to the saints who live in the tribulation who overs
Come the Devil by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony?

 

[Absolutely]

Noah survived the flood, he did not escape it. Do you think it was easy living on the ark? Read Revelations concerning the 5th seal and tell me God's opinion on the death of the saints.

In mat 24 "...as it was with Noah BEFORE THE FLOOD...."


BTW, You need a post judgement example. One where they were taken out AFTER judgement

 

[lukeabers]

In mat 24 "...as it was with Noah BEFORE THE FLOOD...."


BTW, You need a post judgement example. One where they were taken out AFTER judgement

Are you serious? Daniel was castrated and taken to Babylon. Good enough for you?