Birth of the New Testament Church

[JaumeJ]

Jesus giving the keys sto Peter is symbolic of His giving the keys to all of His disciples, even to you and to me...…………..No mere man is in charge of allowing people through the Gate (Jesus).

We are given the Way, the Truth, and the Life in Jesus Christ, that is to say, the Keys to the Kingdom , to share with all…...

Do not be mocked by the false wisdom of mankind. If so you will wind up with a Vatican and no King.

 

[garee]

For those wishing to locate and study old bible dictionary editions on any topic the following is link that will steer you to a great resource:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Catholic_Encyclopedia,_volume_2.djvu/309

The above website includes scanned images of the original bible encyclopedia and regular text that can be copied to share with others.

Hope this helpful.

In my initial post #118 I neglected to mention the web site link provided https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Catholic_Encyclopedia,_volume_2.djvu/309 provides verification of the change of the water baptism formula changed from "in the name of Jesus Christ" to "the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" in 325 a.d.

Formulas become oral traditions of men by which men can make the word of God without effect.

God is not a man as us(a creation) and neither is there any fleshly mediator set between God not seen and man seen, as a infallible umpire as having the approval of God and man.

Water (h20) the temporal seen is used to help us with the unseen spiritual understanding . It is a metaphor used in parables .It can get a person wet but will disappear when it dries up...... out of sight out of mind.

Where do we find in the Bible that the immutable attributes of God as a Father, Son and Holy Spirit that are used to "demonstrate" the authority of our savior, Christ, the "anointed one" as the Holy Spirit of God that it becomes more than a promised demonstration of the Lamb of God who was slain from before the foundation of the world ?( Isaiah 53)

We are either saved by the work of a unseen Spirit or by the things seen walking by sight. No person can serve two masters. (1) the things seen flesh and blood (the temporal) and (2) that not seen (the eternal)

 

[garee]

Jesus giving the keys sto Peter is symbolic of His giving the keys to all of His disciples, even to you and to me...…………..No mere man is in charge of allowing people through the Gate (Jesus).

We are given the Way, the Truth, and the Life in Jesus Christ, that is to say, the Keys to the Kingdom , to share with all…...

Do not be mocked by the false wisdom of mankind. If so you will wind up with a Vatican and no King.

Or Vatican with a King (Pope)

 

[Wansvic]

I would offer it is all "one thing" the key is the revelation of God given to as amany that know Christ. By it men can hear God.

We walk by faith the eternal Holy Place not seen and not after the temporal seen. The idea of separating that which God calls "one" can turn things up side down and take away the understanding of Him not seen. We walk by the eternal not seen not by that in which the eyes see as if the kingdom of Christ did come by observation .We are not what we will be.

The little word it in verses 17 and 18 is the living abiding word of God that works in the believer just as it used in, as it is written. It representing the finger prints of the unseen author. Three time Jesus said in defense to His unseen father in heaven in Mathew 4 , as it is written, and again as it is written .Three strikes the devil was out

Peter is not a part of the use of either it used in that portion.(17-18)

Note....( purple in parenthesis) my offering.

And Jesus answering said to him, `Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it (God's living abiding word is the revealer, not Peter's flesh and blood ) to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens.And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; (God's living abiding word is the revealer , not Peter's flesh and blood ) and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'Mathew 16:17 -19

A picture of our daily bread His will be done on earth as it is loosed from heaven. Some have that loosening from Rome as the it that the gates of hell could never prevail against.

If Peter even had a little credit for God working in Peter as he does with all to both will and do His good pleasure . Then he lost it immediately after when he blasphemed the Son of man, Jesus. Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man, Jesus.
Today that would not be possible, blaspheming against the unseen Holy Spirit will not be forgiven .Peter stands in the same place as any child of God moved by the Holy Spirit who does make our hearts soft..

God simply will not share his unseen glory with the things of men seen.

And having taken him aside, Peter began to rebuke him, saying, `Be kind to thyself, sir; this shall not be to thee;' and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'Mathew 16:22-23

Staying on the topic of the keys noted in Matthew 16:19, first and foremost, the Word of God is to be understood literally. Understanding begins from the literal words of scripture. If one rejects the literal words there is no basis to build upon in understanding God's principles. The literal words mean what they mean. After one accepts the words recorded on the surface, additional depth in the scriptures can be seen throughout scripture. Example: Peter is given "keys" that will open the kingdom per Jesus words. Peter instructs individuals of the things, not one thing, that each one must do (it was not a suggestion):

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..." Acts 2:38-42

After understanding Jesus words that keys are necessary to access the kingdom one can see the connection to the instructions given in the scriptures referenced in Acts chapter 2.

This principle can be seen throughout scripture.

 

[Wansvic]

Formulas become oral traditions of men by which men can make the word of God without effect.

My point exactly. The bible says to water baptize in the name of Jesus Christ. The link to the Catholic Encyclopedia in my post gives one access to the Catholic dictionary that states that they started the tradition of baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Many Protestant churches unwittingly began, and still use, a corrupted formula that is nothing more than a man made tradition.

Consider the words of Jude 3:
"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend (search) for the faith (doctrines of a religion) which was once delivered unto the saints."

And are warned to refuse the traditions of men:
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." Col 2:8

Per the Greek Bible Dictionary the word rudiment in this scripture is equivalent to the word derivative which means to imitate the work of another person, and usually disapproved of for that reason.

The Catholic's way of water baptizing is only an imitation. We know God's authentic way for water baptizing because it resides in His Word.

 

[Wansvic]

Correlation in Scripture

We know from the bible that all concepts within its pages correlate perfectly. When one rightly divides the word of truth the end result is a completely formed beautiful picture. When concepts are misunderstood a fragmented picture is the result and confusion arises.

If one accepts that belief alone in Jesus is the single factor in God’s salvation plan then Peter’s instructions on the Day of Pentecost are in conflict with that formed idea.

However, believing in Jesus as the messiah and following the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost connect with one another. There is no conflict:

Knowing that the crowd gathered on the Day of Pentecost believed Apostle Peter when he told them that Jesus whom they crucified was the Lord and messiah expressed that they believed who Jesus was. (Acts 2:37) Peter goes on to provide instructions regarding man’s obligations, as set forth by God, to the New Testament Covenant. (Acts 2:38) Other crucial points communicated by Peter: “And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts 2:40)

After Peter says SAVE yourselves, those present accept full message and get baptized:

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” (Acts 2:40-42)

Keep in mind that Peter is nothing more than the first vessel God chose to use to advise man of what they must do. Afterward, the other apostles and all people throughout history unto today are merely willing vessels that speak God's message to the world.

 

[garee]

.

My point exactly. The bible says to water baptize in the name of Jesus Christ.

What is the written purpose for H20 baptism? Where do we find in the bible to water Baptize. What does performing it produce other than getting a person wet only to dry out and disappear ?

 

[Wansvic]

.

What is the written purpose for H20 baptism? Where do we find in the bible to water Baptize. What does performing it produce other than getting a person wet only to dry out and disappear ?

" ...and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." (Acts 2:38) I am sure you would agree that sins being forgiven is of utmost importance.

Again, as I have said before water is water. Obedience to the command is what is important.

Why God chose it as a vehicle for baptism I do not know. Maybe He will tell us one day.

 

[garee]

Correlation in Scripture

We know from the bible that all concepts within its pages correlate perfectly. When one rightly divides the word of truth the end result is a completely formed beautiful picture. When concepts are misunderstood a fragmented picture is the result and confusion arises.

If one accepts that belief alone in Jesus is the single factor in God’s salvation plan then Peter’s instructions on the Day of Pentecost are in conflict with that formed idea.

However, believing in Jesus as the messiah and following the instructions given on the Day of Pentecost connect with one another. There is no conflict:

Knowing that the crowd gathered on the Day of Pentecost believed Apostle Peter when he told them that Jesus whom they crucified was the Lord and messiah expressed that they believed who Jesus was. (Acts 2:37) Peter goes on to provide instructions regarding man’s obligations, as set forth by God, to the New Testament Covenant. (Acts 2:38) Other crucial points communicated by Peter: “And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts 2:40)

After Peter says SAVE yourselves, those present accept full message and get baptized:

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.” (Acts 2:40-42)

Keep in mind that Peter is nothing more than the first vessel God chose to use to advise man of what they must do. Afterward, the other apostles and all people throughout history unto today are merely willing vessels that speak God's message to the world.

Peter brought the word of God (not Peter' word) it as it is written with the word it representing the source of Christian faith. It advised men what to do . It was not the advice of Peter but the advice freely given to Peter just as it is given to every person who has flesh

Yes merely willed by the will of God that worked in Peter as he does in all believers to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. The Bible calls it a imputed righteousness . It one of those first things first .God moves us we do not move Him .So why murmur God promise us her will not forget the good works we worked with Him .If its a pride issue and a person wants some glory drop it before it drops the person

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings ………...(I want recognition to be venerated ) and disputingshilipians 2:13-14


Are you hoping to be found which a righteousness of your own self and plan to finish it in Purgatory for a unknow amount of time or severity of punishment?

Christ did not provide a unknown remnant of grace but all that was needed to fulfil the just demands of His law. Why do Catholics do despite to the Spirit of grace by making it a unknown remnant??

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (of Peter) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved "by the Holy Ghost". (not moved by the will of Peter)

In Job 23 we are informed God who is not a man as us is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires For it is God who performs that in which he appoints to us. Only he can make our heart soft. When Peter hardened his own hard and blasphemed the Son of Man Jesus in Mathew 16. he was forgiven .If he would of did that today we could not call him a brother in Christ. God does not forgive when men blaspheme the unseen Holy Place as if it was a must that we have men the temporal seen teach us.

What do you say Wansvic is it a must that we have men seen to teach us ? Some might call that Apostolic succession as a law of the fathers. where did that tradition come from seeing it make the word of God without effect.

Peter does not get accredited for Christ working in Him in Acts 2 .It was Christ preaching the gospel through the living abiding word We preach Christ not our own selves or Peters.

 

[garee]

" ...and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." (Acts 2:38) I am sure you would agree that sins being forgiven is of utmost importance.

Again, as I have said before water is water. Obedience to the command is what is important.

Why God chose it as a vehicle for baptism I do not know. Maybe He will tell us one day.

And the water of the word is?

There is no indication of water there is name which represents authority. (Not Peter)

What's the H20 for? What does it do other than get a person wet only to dry up and vanish away.?

And as a vehicle, the temporal as that seen to represent the eternal not seen as a shadow having no substance of its own?

 

[Wansvic]

Peter brought the word of God (not Peter' word) it as it is written with the word it representing the source of Christian faith. It advised men what to do . It was not the advice of Peter but the advice freely given to Peter just as it is given to every person who has flesh

Yes merely willed by the will of God that worked in Peter as he does in all believers to both will and perform the good pleasure of God. The Bible calls it a imputed righteousness . It one of those first things first .God moves us we do not move Him .So why murmur God promise us her will not forget the good works we worked with Him .If its a pride issue and a person wants some glory drop it before it drops the person

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings ………...(I want recognition to be venerated ) and disputingshilipians 2:13-14


Are you hoping to be found which a righteousness of your own self and plan to finish it in Purgatory for a unknow amount of time or severity of punishment?

Christ did not provide a unknown remnant of grace but all that was needed to fulfil the just demands of His law. Why do Catholics do despite to the Spirit of grace by making it a unknown remnant??

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (of Peter) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved "by the Holy Ghost". (not moved by the will of Peter)

In Job 23 we are informed God who is not a man as us is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires For it is God who performs that in which he appoints to us. Only he can make our heart soft. When Peter hardened his own hard and blasphemed the Son of Man Jesus in Mathew 16. he was forgiven .If he would of did that today we could not call him a brother in Christ. God does not forgive when men blaspheme the unseen Holy Place as if it was a must that we have men the temporal seen teach us.

What do you say Wansvic is it a must that we have men seen to teach us ? Some might call that Apostolic succession as a law of the fathers. where did that tradition come from seeing it make the word of God without effect.

Peter does not get accredited for Christ working in Him in Acts 2 .It was Christ preaching the gospel through the living abiding word We preach Christ not our own selves or Peters.

Purgatory from what I understand is a Catholic thing. I am not a Catholic. My points about Peter have nothing to do with the Catholic Church's erroneous teaching about him.
I believe Jesus is the Messiah that shed His blood for all mankind. Without that sacrifice all would be lost and still dead in sin.
After belief of, and placing our trust in, Jesus the bible record tells use we are to repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and we shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
None can pick and choose what scriptures to obey. The instructions given by Peter were inspired by God or they would not reside in the bible in the first place.
Obeying God's commands can never be a wrong thing to do. The Word says to do it. So it should be acted upon.

 

[Wansvic]

And the water of the word is?

There is no indication of water there is name which represents authority. (Not Peter)

What's the H20 for? What does it do other than get a person wet only to dry up and vanish away.?

And as a vehicle, the temporal as that seen to represent the eternal not seen as a shadow having no substance of its own?

If you study the scriptures that connect to the message given to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost you will see they all include water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism; Acts 8:12 (Samaritans (half Jew&half Gentile) are told to do it); Acts 10:44-48 (Gentiles are told to do it); Acts 19:1-6 (disciples that only knew John's water baptism were told to be re-baptized in water in the name of Jesus, and Paul laid hands on them and they were baptized in the Holy Ghost as well)

The name you mention that is used in water baptism is Jesus Christ and He is the one with all authority.

Again, God mandated water baptism. And used John the Baptist to introduce the concept in the New Testament.

I can only assume that you think that people believe that the water in baptism washes sin off the natural body. That is not the case at all. Those who get water baptized are obeying the command. God expects obedience to His commands throughout the bible.

 

[Wansvic]

And the water of the word is?

The Word refers to two types of water. One is water baptism and the other is the washing of water by the Word of God.
The first is obvious.
The second is the concept of finding something in the Word that changes how we think. Example: One thinks it's ok to lie. They see in the Word that according to God is not okay to lie. After realizing the truth, the incorrect thought that they had once believed is washed away and replaced with the understanding of the truth.

 

[Wansvic]

Faith and Obedience are inseparable as the following scripture verses confirm:

“By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:” Romans 1:5

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?” Rom 10:16

“But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:” Romans 16:26

“And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Acts 6:7

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Heb 11:6-10

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

 

[garee]

If you study the scriptures that connect to the message given to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost you will see they all include water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism; Acts 8:12 (Samaritans (half Jew&half Gentile) are told to do it); Acts 10:44-48 (Gentiles are told to do it); Acts 19:1-6 (disciples that only knew John's water baptism were told to be re-baptized in water in the name of Jesus, and Paul laid hands on them and they were baptized in the Holy Ghost as well)

The name you mention that is used in water baptism is Jesus Christ and He is the one with all authority.

You missed the question. Do we need a man seen to teach us?

What God calls as separate we are to let no man call it as one. Two kinds of Baptisms. One seen the temporal and the other not seen the spiritual, eternal.

Its just that literalist like the Catholics for one that refuse to search our the meaning in parables making the word of God without effect (meaning) in order to give the illusion the kingdom of God does come by observation as those who walk by sight as in out of sight out of mind. Which without parables Christ spoke not

It's why the law of the fathers (Jews and the Catholics) or called apostolic succession was responsible for killing the Christians in both the first century and the fifteenth century reformation . Men venerating, worshipping other men giving them special letters with their seal of approval to perform that evil . This was in both of those reformations. Sola scriptura (all things written in the law an the prophets as it was written was needed to restore the proper kind of Government of God.

John baptism (h20) as that seen the temporal served a different purpose than the baptism of the Holy Spirit the unseen eternal . By the baptism of the Holy Spirit men are given the living faith to believe God regardless if they have a desire to become part of the priesthood of believers .

John baptism is founded in a Old testament ceremonial law that was used when one had a desire to become a member of the priesthood of believers. It (h20)was not effectual as to bring any spiritual change . When it evaporated and disappeared out of sight it served its purpose. Now you see it, now you do not.

Jesus (savior) Christ (anointed one) defines two of the many attributes of God.

Again God does not have a name like the creature needed to tell one another apart. Water as the temporal is designed to point to the unseen Spirit. H20 of itself has no authority or spirit life needed to give faith .

His Spirit quickens our souls H20 profits for nothing other than an outward demonstration of a unseen Spirit . We understand by faith the unseen eternal not after the temporal( h20 )

You need to put on the 20/20 prescription if you desire to see or hear the spiritual understanding hid form those who know not Christ.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are "eternal". 2 Corinthiains 4:18

We are baptized in the name of God as the authority of God .It does not matter if we use the Jesus, Christ or the father Son and Holy Spirit , Its all the same authority trying to divide what God calls one is not a biblical principle

Again, God mandated water baptism. And used John the Baptist to introduce the concept in the New Testament.

It was not a new concept.

John the Baptist continued to use H20 a old testament ceremonial law whenever a new member desired to be a part of the priesthood of believers . Just as he applied to Jesus the son of man He as King of kings call us kings and sends us out as apostles from a foreign land . The new heavenly Jerusalem . Not sent from Rome. Called the patron saint factory of the world the birth place of disembodied workers with familial spirits again that Catholics must call patron saints . The foundation of necromancy

I can only assume that you think that people believe that the water in baptism washes sin off the natural body. That is not the case at all. Those who get water baptized are obeying the command. God expects obedience to His commands throughout the bible.

I don't think h20 like the flesh of Christ profits as a actual work for anything it as the temporal..... points towards that which can effect our soul .

What we apply to the flesh of Christ as profiting for nothing the same applies to h20 both used to represents the unseen things of God.

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh (or H20) profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.John 6:63

 

[garee]

The Word refers to two types of water. One is water baptism and the other is the washing of water by the Word of God.
The first is obvious.
The second is the concept of finding something in the Word that changes how we think. Example: One thinks it's ok to lie. They see in the Word that according to God is not okay to lie. After realizing the truth, the incorrect thought that they had once believed is washed away and replaced with the understanding of the truth.

Two types or uses of water (1) seen "the temporal," used as a shadow to represent (2) it not seen "the eternal"

I think you might of forgot we walk by faith (the unseen "Holy Place of God") Trying to put the things like Peter's flesh , or Mary's seen into the Holy place not seen caused Peter to blaspheme the Son of man in respect to Jesus seen. Peter was forgiven.

Today because the Son of man is no longer here Peter would not of been forgiven. We are warned of that kind of abomination standing in the Holy place . We are surrounded by pagan religions that look to the temporal to give them the illusion of the eternal I believe that why it is so important that we continue to learn what it means to walk by faith and not by sight . We would les apt to offend our God, as Peter did in Mathew 16:23 Good warning to us.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:23

The water of the word represents the "doctrines of God" . Water like blood is used to represent the unseen "Holy Spirit". The Spirit by which we are born from above that drops drop as the rain, representing His speech it shall distil as the dew, His Spirit is as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass. Showering us with the blessing of the gospel

We are given a beautiful parable in the book of Deuteronomy. The water and the word as one work working together by which all men are born again from above .Not Rome.


Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, (not brother Peter the denier) his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.Deuterononmoy 32;1-4


Not loosened or inspired from Rome bound in the heaven as those who turn things upside down in order to take away the understanding of God.

Holy Spirit baptism is washing His bride the church washing her with the word or doctrines of God he washers us, just a us husbands are to wash their own wives with the water of the word forgiving them as Peter was forgiven in a hope they would likewise wash us.

God defines his own terms as His own truth. We do not know God truth through a law of the fathers as having a improper zeal for God not seen

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John1:7

Again a continual cleaning.

 

[garee]

Faith and Obedience are inseparable as the following scripture verses confirm:

“By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:” Romans 1:5

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?” Rom 10:16

“But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:” Romans 16:26

“And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Acts 6:7

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Heb 11:6-10

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Faith is a work of God (not seen the eternal) that He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. Faith and work are inseparable. Faith without works is dead . just as our body of flesh without the spirit essence of life is also dead.

We are saved by Christ labor of Love as a three day work. He gives us His faith that comes from hearing God as the gift. Previously according to His word having "no faith" not little none, zip. Only the imaginations of ones own heart like in Genesis 6 evil continually (no thoughts of God)

In the end of the matter its whose faith you attach to the verses you offered remembering natural man has none and is why they seek after the flesh of others. We are warned of that kind of cannibalism

Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[Wansvic]

You missed the question. Do we need a man seen to teach us?

It was not a new concept.

John the Baptist continued to use H20 a old testament ceremonial law whenever a new member desired to be a part of the priesthood of believers .

The bible says that persons will be taught by their fellow man.
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14

But it is also clear that we receive understanding from reading the Word, and from the Spirit.

As far as the New Testament form of water baptism being a continued from the Old Testament this premise is not accurate.
The Old Testament had many ways one must purify themselves with water. The closest example to water baptism was the Jewish mikveh. But none of these were done in accordance with God's command as obedience to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection.

John the Baptist received instruction for NT water baptize from God:
"Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God." Luke 3:2-6

 

[Wansvic]

Two types or uses of water (1) seen "the temporal," used as a shadow to represent (2) it not seen "the eternal"

I think you might of forgot we walk by faith (the unseen "Holy Place of God") Trying to put the things like Peter's flesh , or Mary's seen into the Holy place not seen caused Peter to blaspheme the Son of man in respect to Jesus seen. Peter was forgiven.

Today because the Son of man is no longer here Peter would not of been forgiven. We are warned of that kind of abomination standing in the Holy place . We are surrounded by pagan religions that look to the temporal to give them the illusion of the eternal I believe that why it is so important that we continue to learn what it means to walk by faith and not by sight . We would les apt to offend our God, as Peter did in Mathew 16:23 Good warning to us.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16:23

The water of the word represents the "doctrines of God" . Water like blood is used to represent the unseen "Holy Spirit". The Spirit by which we are born from above that drops drop as the rain, representing His speech it shall distil as the dew, His Spirit is as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass. Showering us with the blessing of the gospel

We are given a beautiful parable in the book of Deuteronomy. The water and the word as one work working together by which all men are born again from above .Not Rome.


Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, (not brother Peter the denier) his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.Deuterononmoy 32;1-4


Not loosened or inspired from Rome bound in the heaven as those who turn things upside down in order to take away the understanding of God.

Holy Spirit baptism is washing His bride the church washing her with the word or doctrines of God he washers us, just a us husbands are to wash their own wives with the water of the word forgiving them as Peter was forgiven in a hope they would likewise wash us.

God defines his own terms as His own truth. We do not know God truth through a law of the fathers as having a improper zeal for God not seen

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John1:7

Again a continual cleaning.

There is instruction regarding water baptism and washing of water by the Word. You can either accept and obey both. Or, exclude one or both. That is up to you. God has given us freewill.

 

[Wansvic]

Faith is a work of God (not seen the eternal) that He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. Faith and work are inseparable. Faith without works is dead . just as our body of flesh without the spirit essence of life is also dead.
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Faith and Obedience are Inseparable - The scriptures posted speak for themselves.