Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The moment they are made alive spiritually then they are given the ability to discern spiritual things. No Spirit, no discernment. being born of the Spirit is the determinant factor of eternal salvation. We are babes in Christ when we are newly born spiritually and coming unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel is a process brought about by hearing the gospel preached, and growing in faith. The Apostles did not understand the fullness of the gospel until after they had received the Holy Ghost after Jesus had ascended. You never did answer my question; If hearing and believing the gospel brings about eternal salvation, where do infants that die before they are old enough to understand the gospel go? To heaven, or to hell? We were made eternally justified by Jesus's sacrifice on the cross, in so much, that God said he looks upon us as holy and without blame, as far as our eternal security is concerned. And that our sins are as far away from him as the east is from the west. I consider that being made just in a covenant relationship with God. What is your discernment on 2 Tim 2:13? If you would consider Eph 2:14 as being in context with Romans 5:1, For Jesus is our peace who hath made both one , and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us and goes on to say that was by his death, burial, and ressurection.

I told you twice the Bible does not explicitly state babies eternal state when they die.

You do hold to eternal vital union, which is rank heresy.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think you may be overlooking the fact of the natural man, "being yet dead in sins" when he was regenerated.

Is there another option? No. We were dead when He made us alive in Christ. There is no other option available my friend.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The bible does plainly state that when God regenerates a person, whether an infant or a grown up, they are YET dead in sins when regeneration takes place, which means they had nothing to do with making themselves alive. It was all by God's grace (unmerited favor).

I agree with this my friend. We were dead in sin and He made us alive in Christ.

 

[Stewey]

I agree with this my friend. We were dead in sin and He made us alive in Christ.

Hey, do not know where to go with this: https://christianchat.com/new-chris...duce-yourselves/new-here.181418/#post-3794174

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I suppose that you believe that all who are regenerated do believe the gospel,

I believe this because the Bible teaches it.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.(Ephesians 1)

Look closely at verse 13 my friend. After listening and believing they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Now, God has to work in them before they can truly grasp the gospel. So until God makes them alive they can not understand these Spiritual things(1 Cor. 2:14)

then what is your interpretation of 2 Tim 2:13?

This points to the perfection of Christ’s work. Christians still sin, some even commit horrible sins...see Abram lying to Pharaoh, David complicit in Uriah’s murder, Solomon paying to build temples for his wives idols and worshiping with them...but that does not mean Christians live lives rife with sin.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

And we also agree with this. Regeneration also involves the imparting of faith and repentance to that individual at the very moment one is regenerated.




Yes!! Precisely!! We agree with this! Hallelujah! Amen!

Now, seeing we are justified by faith as Romans 5:1 testifies to, that means people are justified by faith, declared righteous before God by this very faith gifted to them via regeneration. Carry that over to Romans 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." When one is regenerated by God, He does this via His word. So, no one is regenerated and then later on hears the gospel and is saved.


No he is not my friend.

In my study of the scriptures I fail to find "via the word" anywhere connected with regeneration scriptures. You are squeezing that in to make it fit your necessity of obeying the gospel to get eternal life. Your efforts to apply all salvation scriptures as eternal salvation is why you have to make it necessary to obey the gospel. Obedience to the gospel delivers us here in time, but not eternally, eternal deliverance is by the sovereign grace of God, without mans efforts.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The natural man is a man who considers the things of God foolish and he can not understand them because they are spiritually discerned. I agree with you here.

Now, you said faith and repentance are given when one is regenerated. When one is given faith, they are declared righteous before God, fully justified. And seeing that faith is a fruit of the Spirit, as Galatians 5:22 clearly states, and faith come from hearing the gospel of Jesus, as Romans 10:17 says, no one is regenerate outside the proclamation of the gospel.

I disagree. You do not have to proclaim the gospel in order to be regenerated. In fact that, is not possible for the natural man.

 

[preacher4truth]

FGC, are you going to go ahead and get things right concerning your lies and misrepresentations of me that you continued up until my last couple posts asking you to stop?

Also, you need to go reread that post where you said I accused you of believing such and such. Read the post again, the statement was never made about you. You probably already knew that but took opportunity anyhow?

Great day for you to man up?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I believe this because the Bible teaches it.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.(Ephesians 1)

Look closely at verse 13 my friend. After listening and believing they are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Now, God has to work in them before they can truly grasp the gospel. So until God makes them alive they can not understand these Spiritual things(1 Cor. 2:14)



This points to the perfection of Christ’s work. Christians still sin, some even commit horrible sins...see Abram lying to Pharaoh, David complicit in Uriah’s murder, Solomon paying to build temples for his wives idols and worshiping with them...but that does not mean Christians live lives rife with sin.

Eph 1:13 - Being sealed (stamped, as the earnest or down payment) is not the receiving of the Holy Spirit, but sealed with the promise of our redemption. They were regenerated, then they trusted and believed, then "AFTER" they trusted and believed they received the stamped and sealed promise of their redemption. The natural man cannot trust and believe spiritual things "BEFORE" he receives the Holy Spirit. So, being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise does not mean receiving the Holy Spirit, just the promise of redemption.

 

[preacher4truth]

I disagree. You do not have to proclaim the gospel in order to be regenerated. In fact that, is not possible for the natural man.

God regenerates the natural man via the Gospel. It's all over Scripture. Once you make a sect and its foundational teachings as against these truths then Scripture must bow to the sects wishes. Suddenly you're then preaching a false gospel only in order to defend your other errors. It has a snowball effect on all your teachings.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FGC, are you going to go ahead and get things right concerning your lies and misrepresentations of me that you continued up until my last couple posts asking you to stop?

Also, you need to go reread that post where you said I accused you of believing such and such. Read the post again, the statement was never made about you. You probably already knew that but took opportunity anyhow?

Great day for you to man up?

I have made amends to you for my resentment of your attitude, and ask you to do the same, but you refused. I will not make any amends for defending the doctrine of Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

In my study of the scriptures I fail to find "via the word" anywhere connected with regeneration scriptures.

That's because you have to twist the meanings of Scripture to protect your time salvation heresy. What is at stake is not truth but your teaching. It must be protected at all costs, even if the word takes a hit.

1 Corinthians 1:21 is quite clear. So is Romans 10:17. And Ephesians 1.

It pleased God to save man this way, but it is quite unpleasing to you since you believe faith and repentance are works of man. Then based on that error yo have to change "save" to a rescue from a temporary circumstance to protect your name and pet false doctrine. It's funny how you all think you need to dictate to God how he should save others contrary to his word.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God regenerates the natural man via the Gospel. It's all over Scripture. Once you make a sect and its foundational teachings as against these truths then Scripture must bow to the sects wishes. Suddenly you're then preaching a false gospel only in order to defend your other errors. It has a snowball effect on all your teachings.

That is just gainsaying on your part.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have made amends to you for my resentment of your attitude,

That's funny, I've never seen this post and I've searched.

and ask you to do the same, but you refused. I will not make any amends for defending the doctrine of Christ.

I've bot seen this since your last accusation added in wherein you claimed I said you believed such and such. I never made that statement and requested you to stop lying and apologize.

What is it you want me to apologize for? Exposing you? For not misrepresenting your beliefs? For addressing each of your accusations and arguments? For trying to hold you accountable to your poor behavior? You know I've not lied about you nor have I misrepresented you. What is it that you'd like for me to apologize about seeing you've not done so yourself after all of your lies &c.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is just gainsaying on your part.

That's what you'd call an accurate description. You offer no arguments see, just an accusation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That's because you have to twist the meanings of Scripture to protect your time salvation heresy. What is at stake is not truth but your teaching. It must be protected at all costs, even if the word takes a hit.

1 Corinthians 1:21 is quite clear. So is Romans 10:17. And Ephesians 1.

It pleased God to save man this way, but it is quite unpleasing to you since you believe faith and repentance are works of man. Then based on that error yo have to change "save" to a rescue from a temporary circumstance to protect your name and pet false doctrine. It's funny how you all think you need to dictate to God how he should save others contrary to his word.

What is funny, is that you have to inject man's obedience as being necessary for eternal salvation, thereby limiting God's grace.

 

[preacher4truth]

I await your apology FGC.

 

[preacher4truth]

What is funny, is that you have to inject man's obedience as being necessary for eternal salvation, thereby limiting God's grace.

Nope, I don't believe that either.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is just gainsaying on your part.

Do you know what gainsaying means?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

What is funny, is that you have to inject man's obedience as being necessary for eternal salvation, thereby limiting God's grace.

Oh, so man does not have to be obedient now? Man can just do anything he pleases my friend? Look at what Samuel told Saul after God told him He was taking his kingship from him...

22 Samuel said,

“Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
As in obeying the voice of the LORD?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.”(1 Samuel 15)