Hardshell & Primitive Baptist "Conditional Time Salvation" Warning
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I limit nothing yet your teaching is a license for sin and lawlessness. Is this why you humble ones talk about your doctrine being "attractive?" I'll tell you one thing, it sure is attractive. To the natural man.
Since you teach to sin so grace may abound Paul has his answer to those who teach such in Romans 3:8.
What part of Jesus saying his sheep know him, obey his voice and follow him do you not get? That is loaded with the facts his sheep are obedient and that my friend is grace in action.
Since you teach to sin so grace may abound Paul has his answer to those who teach such in Romans 3:8.
What part of Jesus saying his sheep know him, obey his voice and follow him do you not get? That is loaded with the facts his sheep are obedient and that my friend is grace in action.
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@ForestGreenCook Am I one of the elect that is eternally saved? Please tell me sir.
You said that faith and repentance were gifted to those dead in sins at the moment of regeneration. Your own words my friend.
Now, what is faith? Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.(Hebrews 11:1) It is also a fruit of the Spirit per Galatians 5:22. It being a fruit shows that those who have this very faith have the Spirit of God living within them.
Then we read...
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,(Romans 5:1)
So, what exactly does it mean to be justified my friend? From Mounce’s Reverse-Interlinear, justify is...
δικαιόω (dikaioō)
pr. to make or render right or just; mid. to act with justice, Rev. 22:11; to avouch to be good and true, to vindicate, Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:29; to set forth as good and just, Lk. 10:29; 16:15; in NT to hold as guiltless, to accept as righteous, to justify, Rom. 3:26, 30; 4:5; 8:30, 33; pass. to be held acquitted, to be cleared, Acts 13:39; Rom. 3:24; 6:7; to be approved, to stand approved, to stand accepted, Rom. 2:13; 3:20, 28
To be justified means they are declared righteous, to stand before Him in an innocent state as if they have never committed a sin in their life. So if they have faith, they are righteous before God via the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
As Paul so wonderfully wrote 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.(2 Cor. 5)
Now, where does faith come from? So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.(Romans 10:17) You stated faith comes when one is regenerated, and I also agree. Yet, it comes by hearing the word of Christ, the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, what is faith? Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.(Hebrews 11:1) It is also a fruit of the Spirit per Galatians 5:22. It being a fruit shows that those who have this very faith have the Spirit of God living within them.
Then we read...
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,(Romans 5:1)
So, what exactly does it mean to be justified my friend? From Mounce’s Reverse-Interlinear, justify is...
δικαιόω (dikaioō)
pr. to make or render right or just; mid. to act with justice, Rev. 22:11; to avouch to be good and true, to vindicate, Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:29; to set forth as good and just, Lk. 10:29; 16:15; in NT to hold as guiltless, to accept as righteous, to justify, Rom. 3:26, 30; 4:5; 8:30, 33; pass. to be held acquitted, to be cleared, Acts 13:39; Rom. 3:24; 6:7; to be approved, to stand approved, to stand accepted, Rom. 2:13; 3:20, 28
To be justified means they are declared righteous, to stand before Him in an innocent state as if they have never committed a sin in their life. So if they have faith, they are righteous before God via the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.
As Paul so wonderfully wrote 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.(2 Cor. 5)
Now, where does faith come from? So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.(Romans 10:17) You stated faith comes when one is regenerated, and I also agree. Yet, it comes by hearing the word of Christ, the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You are at variance with the word of God my friend.
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.(1 Cor. 1)
In verse 18 Paul said the word of the cross, the perishing ones consider it foolishness. Why would they consider the gospel foolishness my friend? As Paul wrote later in this same letter...
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.(1 Cor. 2:14) The unregenerate consider it foolishness and also can not grasp it because it takes the Spirit to illumine their minds to His truth because they are devoid of God’s Spirit.
Then in verse 21 it says God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached(the gospel) to save those who believe. No gospel = no belief. No belief = no faith. No faith = no justification. No justification = no right standing, no being declared righteous before God.
All of this centers around the word of God my friend. It is necessary to hear it, or read it, in order to be saved.
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.(1 Cor. 1)
In verse 18 Paul said the word of the cross, the perishing ones consider it foolishness. Why would they consider the gospel foolishness my friend? As Paul wrote later in this same letter...
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.(1 Cor. 2:14) The unregenerate consider it foolishness and also can not grasp it because it takes the Spirit to illumine their minds to His truth because they are devoid of God’s Spirit.
Then in verse 21 it says God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached(the gospel) to save those who believe. No gospel = no belief. No belief = no faith. No faith = no justification. No justification = no right standing, no being declared righteous before God.
All of this centers around the word of God my friend. It is necessary to hear it, or read it, in order to be saved.
CTS is a denial of the true Gospel. Let me explain one other reason before we head off to worship.
In the CTS gospel it has the elect on the broad road leading to damnation. How precious that would sound to the carnal and lost! "Hey, I believe in heaven, the PB says that means I'm elect. They say I can be on the broad road that leads to damnation too, at the same time. Music to my carnal ears!"
How gravely dangerous is this doctrine from the pit of hell. They say their doctrine is attractive, and thus it is, to the natural man and to the carnal mind.
CTS denies the Gospel and the necessity of sanctification, telling others it is not necessary for eternal salvation via assertion and deduction of their teachings.
Yet the Gospel declares this all a heinous lie.
Note Hebrews 12:14, without this holiness no person will see the LORD. It is not a "positional" sanctification only, it is something the elect pursue by grace, by the work of the Spirit in them.
Note the context!
"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord."
The PB denies this glorious truth and says you will see the LORD no matter what if you're "elect."
In the CTS gospel it has the elect on the broad road leading to damnation. How precious that would sound to the carnal and lost! "Hey, I believe in heaven, the PB says that means I'm elect. They say I can be on the broad road that leads to damnation too, at the same time. Music to my carnal ears!"
How gravely dangerous is this doctrine from the pit of hell. They say their doctrine is attractive, and thus it is, to the natural man and to the carnal mind.
CTS denies the Gospel and the necessity of sanctification, telling others it is not necessary for eternal salvation via assertion and deduction of their teachings.
Yet the Gospel declares this all a heinous lie.
Note Hebrews 12:14, without this holiness no person will see the LORD. It is not a "positional" sanctification only, it is something the elect pursue by grace, by the work of the Spirit in them.
Note the context!
"Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord."
The PB denies this glorious truth and says you will see the LORD no matter what if you're "elect."
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So, when God called Abram out of Ur, he could have told God to go fly a kite and all would be hunky dory with him my friend?
When God told Moses to go get Israel out of Egypt’s slavery, all would have been blue skies and white fluffy clouds if Moses told Him to buzz off?
Even Baalam did what God told him to do when the king of Moab wanted him to curse God’s people. So if Baalam had told God to go take a hike He would have bowed to that king’s wishes and cursed Israel?
If someone is obedient, it shows God’s work already at work within them. Obedience is not the cause of one’s salvation, but it’s evidence of being saved.
When God told Moses to go get Israel out of Egypt’s slavery, all would have been blue skies and white fluffy clouds if Moses told Him to buzz off?
Even Baalam did what God told him to do when the king of Moab wanted him to curse God’s people. So if Baalam had told God to go take a hike He would have bowed to that king’s wishes and cursed Israel?
If someone is obedient, it shows God’s work already at work within them. Obedience is not the cause of one’s salvation, but it’s evidence of being saved.
It is always good to go back to the Greek to better understand what was originally written in that language my friend.
The Greek word for sealed...from Mounce’s interlinear...
σφραγίζω (sphragizō)
to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one’s own mark upon, seal as one’s own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one’s seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33
This seal means it’s God’s approval of them being saved. In other words, it’s Gods seal of approval. All of this happens via His word my friend. They hear, they believe, they are sealed, stamped with God’s approval.
The Greek word for sealed...from Mounce’s interlinear...
σφραγίζω (sphragizō)
to seal, stamp with a seal, Mt. 27:66; Rev. 20:3; to seal up, to close up, conceal, Rev. 10:4; 22:10; to set a mark upon, distinguish by a mark, Eph. 1:13; 4:30; Rev. 7:3, 4, 5, 8; to seal, to mark distinctively as invested with a certain character, Jn. 6:27; mid. to set one’s own mark upon, seal as one’s own, to impress with a mark of acceptance, 2 Cor. 1:22; to deliver over safely to someone, Rom. 15:28; absol. to set to one’s seal, to make a solemn declaration, Jn. 3:33
This seal means it’s God’s approval of them being saved. In other words, it’s Gods seal of approval. All of this happens via His word my friend. They hear, they believe, they are sealed, stamped with God’s approval.
Wonderful post my friend. May God bless you this Lord’s day. I hope you are not offended by my ‘sage blessings’. I do not have any oregano, as I am all out of it.
I am stuck in this morning as it is sleeting, so church has been(rightly) called off.
I am stuck in this morning as it is sleeting, so church has been(rightly) called off.
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You must read over my comments without letting them register with you. Take a closer look at my posts #550, 552,563. Then reread your post #556 where you refuse to extend the same favor. Your statement "They speak of a deliverance [ONLY] here on earth" Your post #5, is a false accusation, we speak also of an eternal deliverance into heaven.
Okay, let us examine and allow me to exegete that verse...
16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.(Galatians 2)
We see that it was the work of the cross that saves, not by keeping the Law. As Paul wrote later in this same chapter...”I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”(vs 21) Now, again, how do we obtain this righteousness of Jesus Christ my friend? By faith gifted to us via God’s regenerative power. Even you stated that faith was given at this point. So when a man is declared righteous, this happens via faith, which comes from hearing the word of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You are defeating yourself with every post you make my friend.
16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.(Galatians 2)
We see that it was the work of the cross that saves, not by keeping the Law. As Paul wrote later in this same chapter...”I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”(vs 21) Now, again, how do we obtain this righteousness of Jesus Christ my friend? By faith gifted to us via God’s regenerative power. Even you stated that faith was given at this point. So when a man is declared righteous, this happens via faith, which comes from hearing the word of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You are defeating yourself with every post you make my friend.
What this boils down to my friend is Sola Scriptura. I say the word of God is sufficient to save God’s elect, you say it is not. You are denying the sufficiency of scripture.
