Lauren Daigle

[posthuman]

That is not a common sentiment among the majority of Christians.

I don't personally know any Christians who would say that, and it certainly isn't biblical.

..

this is still the music forum, right?

a song, then, for a beautiful gray day

that's the way it all unfolds ​

stories clear, Master told ​

"to love the least of these is loving Me"​

​

broken window, orphaned child ​

prison man, lost, defiled ​

increases their shame; outcome the same ​

​

that’s the way it all unfolds ​

to welcome strangers from the cold ​

let the King say ​

you’ve welcomed Him ​

​

sheep on the right, goats on the left ​

truth be told there should be no rest ​

when you neglect the ones the world rejects ​

​

that’s the way it all unfolds ​

stories clear, the Master told ​

"to love the least of these is loving Me"​

 

[Xethea]

That is not a common sentiment among the majority of Christians.

I don't personally know any Christians who would say that, and it certainly isn't biblical.

..

Exactly. I call them fake Christians. Ones who go to chapel services every week, ones who even teach the young kids and adults, ones who teach the Christmas plays, who read their Bible every day, pray every day with a long list of people, who claim their whole life is for the Lord, then you find them saying things like that when you are with them and you hear what they have to say about the homeless, the poor, the addicts, the ones unlike them, with their hateful comments trying to include the Lord with praise to him for their sufferings.

When I take a step back, all that time in chapels, all that prayer and Chapel attendance to even be an important person to teach and constantly reading their Bible but then showering the ones who need love the most and rather showing them hate- I don't find those to be Christians. They miss the greatest thing Jesus pointed out over and over. Your life becomes focused on works than rather than love. Over here, almost everyone who calls themself a Christian. This is California. You won't ban the Bible so easily here, even if people don't truly live by it. If you don't have those people who read, pray and go to services all the time, then you have people who watch porn, play video games and watch TV all day, curse and fight each other at home and do the work they have to do to have the worldly things they want and then once in awhile they'll say they are a Christian, one who mind their own business and live for themselves.

It's extremely rare you find a true Christian who truly gives their life to love the Lord and love others and all that the Lord wants them to do.

 

[maxwel]

Exactly. I call them fake Christians. Ones who go to chapel services every week, ones who even teach the young kids and adults, ones who teach the Christmas plays, who read their Bible every day, pray every day with a long list of people, who claim their whole life is for the Lord, then you find them saying things like that when you are with them and you hear what they have to say about the homeless, the poor, the addicts, the ones unlike them, with their hateful comments trying to include the Lord with praise to him for their sufferings.

When I take a step back, all that time in chapels, all that prayer and Chapel attendance to even be an important person to teach and constantly reading their Bible but then showering the ones who need love the most and rather showing them hate- I don't find those to be Christians. They miss the greatest thing Jesus pointed out over and over. Your life becomes focused on works than rather than love. Over here, almost everyone who calls themself a Christian. This is California. You won't ban the Bible so easily here, even if people don't truly live by it. If you don't have those people who read, pray and go to services all the time, then you have people who watch porn, play video games and watch TV all day, curse and fight each other at home and do the work they have to do to have the worldly things they want and then once in awhile they'll say they are a Christian, one who mind their own business and live for themselves.

It's extremely rare you find a true Christian who truly gives their life to love the Lord and love others and all that the Lord wants them to do.

Disillusion?
Though "fake Christians" are disheartening, we shouldn't feel surprised or disillusioned in our faith.

Why?
It's a topic thoroughly covered in the New Testament.

Categories
The New Testaments is FULL of instruction and warnings about these things.
The NT even breaks these "inconsistencies" down into many different categories: "fake Christians", "carnal Christians", "baby Christians", "weak Christians", "ignorant Christians", and several other categories of frailty and disrepair.

Primary Concerns
A. The primary concern is that WE can keep an eye our on our own lives, and be aware when WE slip into these categories of sin and hyprocrisy.
B. The next concern is that we discern between "fake Christians" who aren't even saved, and "carnal Christians" who need to be convicted and instructed.

Study for Discernment - in order to Minister
As Christians, it probably isn't enough that we just point out problems we see with other Christians.... we need to do more.

We need to make sure we are not falling into the same problems, and then we need to study the scripture so we can truly understand the state, and the needs, of the "Christians" we're talking about.

The same scriptural discernment that allows us to assess a person's state and issues, is the same discernment that will also clarify how we should minister and interact.

We need to study deeply, so we can have deep discernment to navigate these issues and these sins.

...

...

 

[Locutus]

this is still the music forum, right?

It is and this thread reminds me of:

 

[posthuman]

It is and this thread reminds me of:

interesting; it does not remind me of this song in the least

 

[Locutus]

Some of the threads in the BDF remind me of this:

 

[posthuman]

Some of the threads in the BDF remind me of this:

agreed!

almost all of it reminds me of this

 

[Xethea]

agreed!

almost all of it reminds me of this

You guys sure spend a good bit of time in worldly things to know how to constantly reply with many of the most popular animated shows that mock God and even want to post it on a Christian site

 

[posthuman]

You guys sure spend a good bit of time in worldly things to know how to constantly reply with many of the most popular animated shows that mock God and even want to post it on a Christian site

Paul could quote secular Greek poets. is that weird?

 

[Locutus]

I can quote Homer and his Oddersee

 

[Socreta93]

You can just skip to the last page and someone will have no idea what the convo is about

 

[tourist]

What do you think about what Lauren Daigle claiming that she doesn't know if homosexuality is a sin or not?

I have never heard of her. There are many, including Christians that aren't sure whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.

 

[maxwel]

I have never heard of her. There are many, including Christians that aren't sure whether or not homosexuality is a sin or not.

Tourist, I appreciate you posts, and your friendship, but I'll have to politely disagree here.

I don't think it's tenable that a genuine believer would have any trouble discerning something so clear and egregious.
I think it's very kind, and very polite, to say a Christian may not know... but although it's a very kind position, I don't think it's ultimately a tenable position.


Untenable to think a genuine converted believer does not understand homosexuality is a sin:

1. We'd have to think the holy spirit, which DOES convict us of sin, and DOES lead us into truth, is somehow totally incapable of convicting a person about an easily understood sin which is so incredibly egregious, obviously wrong, unnatural, and historically understood.

2. We'd have to assume the holy spirit was incapable of directing the person to another believer, either in the flesh or through some media format, anywhere in the entire world, so the person could HEAR that it's a sin.

3. We'd have to assume that although this is an EXTREMELY WELL KNOWN AND CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, that the person has never seen or heard one person, ever, showing the bible verses about it, or explaining it's a sin.

4. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, read the bible and come across ANY verses about sex, procreation, marriage, relationships, or homosexuality... which would all clarify the issue... and those verses start at the very beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 2, showing God's plan is 1 man and 1 woman, with explicit passages in both OT and NT about homosexuality.

5. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, come across any biblical explanation anywhere in the world... not blogs, podcasts, videos, social media, websites, magazines... in an entire world of media connected to the phone right in their pocket, the person has never ever heard an explanation about homosexuality being a sin.

6. We'd have to assume, in the person's own experience, the person could not even look at the simplicity of nature at work, in their own body, and see that homosexuality is simply unnatural as it's contrary to the natural act of procreation.

7. We have to assume, that on a controversial issue, with biblical information coming from all media, and all directions, day and night... that the holy spirit, with all of that information, was TOTALLY UNABLE to convict the person about the issue?


I could go on and on.


Conclusion:

1. It is untenable to think a genuine and converted believer, in the modern world, has never been moved to see the most basic of biological truths... not through the holy spirit, the media, the news, the entire internet, biology, personal experience, or conversations with other Christians.

2. If a "Christian" says they are uncertain about homosexuality, it seems we have 3 choices:
A. The person is not converted, thus the holy spirit is NOT directing them or convicting them.
B. The person DOES know it's sin, but doesn't want to admit it, because it's bad for business.
C. The person is INTENTIONALLY REFUSING to examine the issue, simply refusing, although the evidence is all around them.... as it is impossible to remain ignorant, or unaware, of a such a common, controversial, and simple issue, in the modern world full of media right in your pocket. It is impossible to remain ignorant unless it's intentional.

I don't hate Daigle, but it defies reason, and scripture, for any genuine Christian to point at this issue and say, "I don't know if it's wrong."

...

 

[tourist]

Tourist, I appreciate you posts, and your friendship, but I'll have to politely disagree here.

I don't think it's tenable that a genuine believer would have any trouble discerning something so clear and egregious.
I think it's very kind, and very polite, to say a Christian may not know... but although it's a very kind position, I don't think it's ultimately a tenable position.


Untenable to think a genuine converted believer does not understand homosexuality is a sin:

1. We'd have to think the holy spirit, which DOES convict us of sin, and DOES lead us into truth, is somehow totally incapable of convicting a person about an easily understood sin which is so incredibly egregious, obviously wrong, unnatural, and historically understood.

2. We'd have to assume the holy spirit was incapable of directing the person to another believer, either in the flesh or through some media format, anywhere in the entire world, so the person could HEAR that it's a sin.

3. We'd have to assume that although this is an EXTREMELY WELL KNOWN AND CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, that the person has never seen or heard one person, ever, showing the bible verses about it, or explaining it's a sin.

4. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, read the bible and come across ANY verses about sex, procreation, marriage, relationships, or homosexuality... which would all clarify the issue... and those verses start at the very beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 2, showing God's plan is 1 man and 1 woman, with explicit passages in both OT and NT about homosexuality.

5. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, come across any biblical explanation anywhere in the world... not blogs, podcasts, videos, social media, websites, magazines... in an entire world of media connected to the phone right in their pocket, the person has never ever heard an explanation about homosexuality being a sin.

6. We'd have to assume, in the person's own experience, the person could not even look at the simplicity of nature at work, in their own body, and see that homosexuality is simply unnatural as it's contrary to the natural act of procreation.

7. We have to assume, that on a controversial issue, with biblical information coming from all media, and all directions, day and night... that the holy spirit, with all of that information, was TOTALLY UNABLE to convict the person about the issue?


I could go on and on.


Conclusion:

1. It is untenable to think a genuine and converted believer, in the modern world, has never been moved to see the most basic of biological truths... not through the holy spirit, the media, the news, the entire internet, biology, personal experience, or conversations with other Christians.

2. If a "Christian" says they are uncertain about homosexuality, it seems we have 3 choices:
A. The person is not converted, thus the holy spirit is NOT directing them or convicting them.
B. The person DOES know it's sin, but doesn't want to admit it, because it's bad for business.
C. The person is INTENTIONALLY REFUSING to examine the issue, simply refusing, although the evidence is all around them.... as it is impossible to remain ignorant, or unaware, of a such a common, controversial, and simple issue, in the modern world full of media right in your pocket. It is impossible to remain ignorant unless it's intentional.

I don't hate Daigle, but it defies reason, and scripture, for any genuine Christian to point at this issue and say, "I don't know if it's wrong."

...

Your posts always make a lot of sense, scriptural or otherwise. At times very amusing too. I appreciate you for being the person that you are. You make a world a better place.

 

[Gracie_14]

Here's a vid of interest: Please check it out! They make some pretty good points!

 

[PennEd]

Tourist, I appreciate you posts, and your friendship, but I'll have to politely disagree here.

I don't think it's tenable that a genuine believer would have any trouble discerning something so clear and egregious.
I think it's very kind, and very polite, to say a Christian may not know... but although it's a very kind position, I don't think it's ultimately a tenable position.


Untenable to think a genuine converted believer does not understand homosexuality is a sin:

1. We'd have to think the holy spirit, which DOES convict us of sin, and DOES lead us into truth, is somehow totally incapable of convicting a person about an easily understood sin which is so incredibly egregious, obviously wrong, unnatural, and historically understood.

2. We'd have to assume the holy spirit was incapable of directing the person to another believer, either in the flesh or through some media format, anywhere in the entire world, so the person could HEAR that it's a sin.

3. We'd have to assume that although this is an EXTREMELY WELL KNOWN AND CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE, that the person has never seen or heard one person, ever, showing the bible verses about it, or explaining it's a sin.

4. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, read the bible and come across ANY verses about sex, procreation, marriage, relationships, or homosexuality... which would all clarify the issue... and those verses start at the very beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 2, showing God's plan is 1 man and 1 woman, with explicit passages in both OT and NT about homosexuality.

5. We'd have to assume the person has never, on their own, come across any biblical explanation anywhere in the world... not blogs, podcasts, videos, social media, websites, magazines... in an entire world of media connected to the phone right in their pocket, the person has never ever heard an explanation about homosexuality being a sin.

6. We'd have to assume, in the person's own experience, the person could not even look at the simplicity of nature at work, in their own body, and see that homosexuality is simply unnatural as it's contrary to the natural act of procreation.

7. We have to assume, that on a controversial issue, with biblical information coming from all media, and all directions, day and night... that the holy spirit, with all of that information, was TOTALLY UNABLE to convict the person about the issue?


I could go on and on.


Conclusion:

1. It is untenable to think a genuine and converted believer, in the modern world, has never been moved to see the most basic of biological truths... not through the holy spirit, the media, the news, the entire internet, biology, personal experience, or conversations with other Christians.

2. If a "Christian" says they are uncertain about homosexuality, it seems we have 3 choices:
A. The person is not converted, thus the holy spirit is NOT directing them or convicting them.
B. The person DOES know it's sin, but doesn't want to admit it, because it's bad for business.
C. The person is INTENTIONALLY REFUSING to examine the issue, simply refusing, although the evidence is all around them.... as it is impossible to remain ignorant, or unaware, of a such a common, controversial, and simple issue, in the modern world full of media right in your pocket. It is impossible to remain ignorant unless it's intentional.

I don't hate Daigle, but it defies reason, and scripture, for any genuine Christian to point at this issue and say, "I don't know if it's wrong."

...

Your points are valid and I don't want to dismiss them, however I don't think we should say someone is not a Christian based on ANYTHING except denying Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, who died for our sin, and was raised to life.

We can easily stretch your logic to all sorts of things people do. Is the person voting for a Democrat, even though they know the party supports abortion, homosexuality of every stripe including marriage, and a whole host of other evil things NOT a Christian?

How about most of us that rationalize watching certain TV shows?

I do agree with you that homosexuality is the bottom of the barrel of sin. It's really a judgement sin that God gives people over to who refuse Him. I'm not sure Daigle has crossed a line from not knowing if it's sin to PROMOTING the sin.

 

[maxwel]

Your points are valid and I don't want to dismiss them, however I don't think we should say someone is not a Christian based on ANYTHING except denying Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, who died for our sin, and was raised to life.

We can easily stretch your logic to all sorts of things people do. Is the person voting for a Democrat, even though they know the party supports abortion, homosexuality of every stripe including marriage, and a whole host of other evil things NOT a Christian?

How about most of us that rationalize watching certain TV shows?

I do agree with you that homosexuality is the bottom of the barrel of sin. It's really a judgement sin that God gives people over to who refuse Him. I'm not sure Daigle has crossed a line from not knowing if it's sin to PROMOTING the sin.

Hey PennEd,

I didn't say she wasn't saved; I said that by claiming ignorance of such an egregious sin we're left with a short range of possible options.


I think others in this thread have already said the same thing.

..

 

[maxwel]

continued...

I agree with you, we cannot be CERTAIN someone is lost unless they deny Christ as their savior.

But if someone claims to be saved and doesn't show any of the normal fruit... it's reasonable to doubt their salvation for "practical" purposes (how we interact with them).

 

[maxwel]

more continued...

I don't know what's up with Daigle,
but it's something.

Something is clearly out of sorts.

...

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Here's what the Nati asked her and her response...

“Do you feel that homosexuality is a sin?” Nati, whose broadcast is aired on iHeart Radio, asked forthrightly.

“You know, I can’t honestly answer on that, in the sense of I have too many people that I love—that they are homosexuals,”

“I don’t know. I actually had a conversation with someone last night about it. I can’t say one way or the other. I’m not God,” she continued. “So, when people ask questions like that, that’s what my go to is. Like, I just say, ‘Read the Bible and find out for yourself. And when you find out, let me know because I’m learning too.'”

She obviously knows that the Bible clearly says that homosexuality is a sin...but she doesn't admit it...she says to go and look in the Bible yourself...I don't know what to think honestly...

I am willing to be patient with her as God deals with her. If she is truly saved, God will correct her by putting a person, or persons, in her life that will help guide her to better understand His word.

I was watching Dr. James White's "Dividing Line" podcast the other day and he said some things about her that were quite true. He said he did not know who she was, but when people like her who travel ~ 40 weeks a year, where do they go to church? Do they go to church? Who helps her to study? This is why being in a local church is beneficial to one's spiritual growth.

Her song 'Still Rolling Stones' has caused me to rejoice immensely.