Abra Cadabra

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yep.

Your special. Chosen, Because there is something about you Jesus like.

But the next Guy. There is just somethign about him Jesus does not like. So He chose not to allow him to even have a chance to believe,

Again, your last sentence proves you know nothing of our view. If God gives Him a chance and he rejects Him, God is off the hook, is vindicated. He must believe as you believe, agree with you on everything.

Here is the thing, man in his fallen state will never choose to seek God. He hates Him, is at enmity(has an ill-will towards Him) with Him, will never seek Him. That is what Psalm 14, Romans 3:9-18, and Romans 8:5-9 testify to. If God gave everybody just a chance, none would be saved my friend.

God actively pursues His elect, calls them by name(John 10:3), hunts them down and brings them to the sheep fold(Matthew 18:12-14). He just does not give them a chance to be saved, but actually saves His people from their sins(Matthew 1:21).

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You told me you do not believe you are special. I believe you, I believe with all. My heart you do not believe you are special

That does nt make it a fact. Thats my point. I am trying to get you to see the flaw in your thinking. Or should I say your doctrine, My argument is not against you, it is against your doctrine. Please do not take it personally, I have nothing aginst you.

Thank you for that last sentence my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, your last sentence proves you know nothing of our view. If God gives Him a chance and he rejects Him, God is off the hook, is vindicated. He must believe as you believe, agree with you on everything.

Here is the thing, man in his fallen state will never choose to seek God. He hates Him, is at enmity(has an ill-will towards Him) with Him, will never seek Him. That is what Psalm 14, Romans 3:9-18, and Romans 8:5-9 testify to. If God gave everybody just a chance, none would be saved my friend.

God actively pursues His elect, calls them by name(John 10:3), hunts them down and brings them to the sheep fold(Matthew 18:12-14). He just does not give them a chance to be saved, but actually saves His people from their sins(Matthew 1:21).

Yep. We been over this before.

I disagree..

God electes based on forknowledge. Not based on some non known favoritism (there is no other explanation that anyone has ever given me that woudl fit why God chose some and not others)

God is not a respector of persons. He is willing that NON should perish, but ALL should be made alive..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for that last sentence my friend.

Its all good.. I have nothign against my calvinist brothers. I know I will be with them in heaven.

This is a doctrinal issue, not a gospel issue (as it is with the armenianS and catholics and other legalistic based gospel teaching churches)

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

This does not make it true,

You may not feel your special. But according to your belief. You were chosen and ALLOWED the precious opportunity to be saved, where others who were in the same boat were not.

THAT ALONE, makes you special.

Just because you deny it does not make it true. Because CHose you, and di dnot chose another.

Now. If God offered ALL of you salvation. And by taking you to your knees, you called out to God to be saved, But the other person. Who ALSo was taken to his knees, went out fighting and rejected Gods offer. There is no favoritism shown. Because God offered ALL people the same gift. And you could not take credit if you said yes. Because GOD took you to your knees. All you did was admit you had no hope.. Which is what the tax collector did.

The tax collector went home justified NOT because he was regeneratoed or allowed to see. he went home because God brought him to his knees and he saw no other way. Vs the pharisee, Who could not see how bankrupt he was. Not because he was not regenerated, But because of pride.

Here’s the thing my friend. I did NOT want to be saved. I was having the time of my life, why did I need God to mess that up? I loved me, not Him. In my fallen state, God was not even the low man on my totem pole. If God had left me there, I would have remained in my hatred of Him. I did not literally hate Him like I have people before, but Jesus said “if you love Me, keep my commands.”(John 14:15) Well, seeing I was serving Satan and not God, I was continually breaking command numero uno my friend. I hated Him by my deeds.

It was when God me out, He change my hate of Him to love. The very moment He gave me the new birth, I feel madly in love with Him. He changed me first, before I could love Him. If He did this with everybody without exception, my friend, everybody without exception would be saved.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yep. We been over this before.

I disagree..

God electes based on forknowledge. Not based on some non known favoritism (there is no other explanation that anyone has ever given me that woudl fit why God chose some and not others)

God is not a respector of persons. He is willing that NON should perish, but ALL should be made alive..

Foreknowledge is not not God’s omniscience my friend. Foreknowledge is in regards to salvation. Yes He is omniscient, but He did not base His election upon His omniscience, but His foreknowledge.

Whom He foreknew...

 

[preacher4truth]

"I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth." 1 John 2:21

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here’s the thing my friend. I did NOT want to be saved. I was having the time of my life, why did I need God to mess that up? I loved me, not Him. In my fallen state, God was not even the low man on my totem pole. If God had left me there, I would have remained in my hatred of Him. I did not literally hate Him like I have people before, but Jesus said “if you love Me, keep my commands.”(John 14:15) Well, seeing I was serving Satan and not God, I was continually breaking command numero uno my friend. I hated Him by my deeds.

It was when God me out, He change my hate of Him to love. The very moment He gave me the new birth, I feel madly in love with Him. He changed me first, before I could love Him. If He did this with everybody without exception, my friend, everybody without exception would be saved.

God drew you, By taking you down. He does nto work the same in all people. Because not everyone will respond the same. Some will respond quickly. Many make take years. But they still must respond.

Same thing happened to me. And many others.

Yet we STILL have to chose to say yes Lord. Or no lord.

God did not give you special powers. He just gave you his word. And by hearing and believein, you completed the will of God. And for this reason. God gave you eternal life.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Yep. We been over this before.

I disagree..

God electes based on forknowledge. Not based on some non known favoritism (there is no other explanation that anyone has ever given me that woudl fit why God chose some and not others)

God is not a respector of persons. He is willing that NON should perish, but ALL should be made alive..

I see you paraphrased 2 Peter 3:9.

9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.(2 Peter 3)

The whole letter of 2 Peter is addressed to believers. The context of this letter is God is patient toward YOU(the believers that letter was addressed to) not willing any of them perish. I will prove this to you...


12 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.(Matthew 18)

God is not willing for any of His sheep, both Jew and Gentile elect, to perish. That is the context of 2 Peter 3:9, my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Foreknowledge is not not God’s omniscience my friend. Foreknowledge is in regards to salvation. Yes He is omniscient, but He did not base His election upon His omniscience, but His foreknowledge.

Whom He foreknew...

Whom he foreknew.

What did he foreknow about them? Did he forknew they would believe? Did he forknow somethign else?

I believe he forknew his own will (whoever sees and believes) and chose to elect based on that knowledge

The issue here is You can’t say your right. And I can not prove I am right. So as for this aspect. We are left at a stalemate. (We interpret based on our beief system) so can We can attack each other. Or admit, We have to look at other things to prove our point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see you paraphrased 2 Peter 3:9.

9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.(2 Peter 3)

The whole letter of 2 Peter is addressed to believers. The context of this letter is God is patient toward YOU(the believers that letter was addressed to) not willing any of them perish. I will prove this to you...


12 “What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.(Matthew 18)

God is not willing for any of His sheep, both Jew and Gentile elect, to perish. That is the context of 2 Peter 3:9, my friend.

Or how about taking that with John 3: 16, He so loved the WORLD.. The world (cosmos) would include everyone.

All letters were written to all people. Saved or unsaved. Because both types of people were part of the church.

One can go in any church today, and I guarantee not everyone there is saved. And I am including long outstanding members.. Only God knows who has accepted in faith and who has not.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

God drew you, By taking you down. He does nto work the same in all people. Because not everyone will respond the same. Some will respond quickly. Many make take years. But they still must respond.

Same thing happened to me. And many others.

Yet we STILL have to chose to say yes Lord. Or no lord.

God did not give you special powers. He just gave you his word. And by hearing and believein, you completed the will of God. And for this reason. God gave you eternal life.

My friend, God has to hunt all of us down. None seek after Him, my friend.

Yes, i agree God gave me no special power, but He did raise me from the dead. The same power that saves us is the same power it took to raise Jesus from the dead and the same power when God said “let there be light”.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Or how about taking that with John 3: 16, He so loved the WORLD.. The world (cosmos) would include everyone.

All letters were written to all people. Saved or unsaved. Because both types of people were part of the church.

Glad you brought up John 3:16 my friend. You say ‘world’ means everyone. Why did Jesus say He was not praying for everyone in John 17:9 when He said He was not praying for the world? You have the triune Godhead butting heads. You say world means everyone, then says God loves everyone, yet Jesus said He was not praying for everyone. Why the disconnect between Father and Son?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My friend, God has to hunt all of us down.

I agree. And God knows who will recieve his precisous gift, and who will not. And what it will take for them to believe. And he acts accordingly.

Thats omnisience at work. And why no one has an excuse/

None seek after Him, my friend.

And I never said otherwise. Like you claim I do not understand you. This is a part you do not understand, I have over and over stated. No one will seek God without God drawing them to himself.

Yes, i agree God gave me no special power, but He did raise me from the dead.

There is your special power. Somethign God gave you he did not even offer other people

The same power that saves us is the same power it took to raise Jesus from the dead and the same power when God said “let there be light”.

Yep. But God can not go against his own essence. He can not raise a person from the dead, who is still under the penalty of sin. (Our second doctrinal disagreement)

He justified you , and after this, because the penalty of sin was removed, the same power that rose jesus from the dead came into your heart and rose you from death to life. And then took residence in you, and he wh began this good work in you. WIll complete it until the day you are ressurected. And just in case you doubt, He gave you the spirit in yur heart as a guarantee.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Glad you brought up John 3:16 my friend. You say ‘world’ means everyone. Why did Jesus say He was not praying for everyone in John 17:9 when He said He was not praying for the world? You have the triune Godhead butting heads. You say world means everyone, then says God loves everyone, yet Jesus said He was not praying for everyone. Why the disconnect between Father and Son?

I could say this, But God is always the same, and we need to look in context.

He prayed for those who would be saved in John 17 (Why pray for those he knows will never recieve him no matter what)
In John 3, he is saying he loves the hwole world. But not all wil be saved, yet either way, That he offered his son. But only THOSE WHO BELIEVE (again remember his will, whoever sees and believes has eternal life) will be given eternal life.

He who believes is not condemned, He who does nto believe is condemned already.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I agree. And God knows who will recieve his precisous gift, and who will not. And what it will take for them to believe. And he acts accordingly.

Thats omnisience at work. And why no one has an excuse/


And I never said otherwise. Like you claim I do not understand you. This is a part you do not understand, I have over and over stated. No one will seek God without God drawing them to himself.



There is your special power. Somethign God gave you he did not even offer other people



Yep. But God can not go against his own essence. He can not raise a person from the dead, who is still under the penalty of sin. (Our second doctrinal disagreement)

He justified you , and after this, because the penalty of sin was removed, the same power that rose jesus from the dead came into your heart and rose you from death to life. And then took residence in you, and he wh began this good work in you. WIll complete it until the day you are ressurected. And just in case you doubt, He gave you the spirit in yur heart as a guarantee.

You are putting the onus on man, not God, my friend, in regards to salvation. You are claiming that God raising me from the dead was because I was something special? So if He does this for me and not others, that makes me special. My friend, God chose me because of who He is, not what I am.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I could say this, But God is always the same, and we need to look in context.

He prayed for those who would be saved in John 17 (Why pray for those he knows will never recieve him no matter what)
In John 3, he is saying he loves the hwole world. But not all wil be saved, yet either way, That he offered his son. But only THOSE WHO BELIEVE (again remember his will, whoever sees and believes has eternal life) will be given eternal life.

He who believes is not condemned, He who does nto believe is condemned already.

Not even remotely close my friend. You say the word ‘world’ means everybody. So, by using that interpretation, Jesus is not praying for everyone in John 17:9.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I could say this, But God is always the same, and we need to look in context.

He prayed for those who would be saved in John 17 (Why pray for those he knows will never recieve him no matter what)
In John 3, he is saying he loves the hwole world. But not all wil be saved, yet either way, That he offered his son. But only THOSE WHO BELIEVE (again remember his will, whoever sees and believes has eternal life) will be given eternal life.

He who believes is not condemned, He who does nto believe is condemned already.

And who are those who are to be saved my friend? Those He chose from before the creation of the world(Eph. 1:4).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are putting the onus on man, not God, my friend, in regards to salvation. You are claiming that God raising me from the dead was because I was something special? So if He does this for me and not others, that makes me special. My friend, God chose me because of who He is, not what I am.

Thats what true love does

It does not force. It offers.
God offered man perfect harmony in the garden. Man chose to say no

In the same token, God offers man perfect life today. Will we chose yes or no.

Your right, he chose you based on who he is. He claims to be a god of love, And he claims that true loves will die for his enemy. And God chose to do this..
Again, WHo goes home justified?

The pharisee (the one who makes himself God)

Or the tax collector (the one who responded to Gods call, and out of total inability and hope. Called out to Jesus..

I am arguing Gods love.. Is he a god of true agape love, like he demands us to be (loving even our worse enemy)

if not. Satan is right.. and we have all been duped.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not even remotely close my friend. You say the word ‘world’ means everybody. So, by using that interpretation, Jesus is not praying for everyone in John 17:9.

He was not praying for everyone in John 17

He was praying for those who would believe, just like the 11 believed.

For I have given to them the wordswhich You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

Who is he praying for?

Those who RECEVED and BELIEVED

Who did God give Jesus?

Those who RECIEVED and BELIEVED.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word.

John 16 is not about who Jesus prayed for it is who he DIED for.