God and Disease

[Nehemiah6]

I don’t know what Fall you are referring to.

Well that is strange indeed. There would be no need for the Gospel if there had not been a Fall and a subsequent curse.

GENESIS 3
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because Iwas naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[Angela53510]

God did not create sickness and disease. But he foresaw it would happen, after the Fall. Adam and Eve were created perfectly, and so their descendents were much stronger, with much greater diversity than we have today. So even though plagues and diseases do lower the population, it is not really a good long term strategy to live1

Relatives should not intermarry, because many of those recessive genes get expressed. As for being healthy at age 40, wait 20 or 30 years. I got Rheumatoid Arthritis at age 44. Before that, I was the healthiest, most active person you could ever meet. Since then, it is a struggle, and lots of strong, harsh meds including chemo drugs to keep this under control.

Then there is my mom. 89 years old and she has no illnesses at all. My sickness came from my father's side, obviously. Her oldest sister lived to be 96, so my mom has a long way to go, if she follows her sister.

So, bragging about good genetics is just foolish. Oh, I forgot to mention, I've been an organic vegetarian for 48 years now. I still grow a lot of my own food. I have onions and garlic, carrots and celery left, just finished off the last of the ripe tomatoes. And lots of veggies from my garden that are frozen, waiting to be eating before spring. And I have always been into exercising, but not to the point of excess.

And yet, here I am, sick. God did not create this, but in my case, he allowed it. God continues to teach ,me daily though my suffering, deformities and pain. And I still rejoice in him!

"Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

 

[tourist]

Could you also fit all of the farms to feed them, sewage systems to maintain sanitation and place to move? I could fill an aquarium with a thousand fish, but to keep the tank balanced to sustain life, you are only supposed to have a few. The Bible doesn’t say not to overpopulate, but it does say don’t mix potions. That’s what medicine is. We produce one child at a time, not litters. If He really wanted to populate the earth fast, He could have made us different. Sickness is designed to kill the weak. We stopped that from happening.

My daughter produced 2 children at one time.

 

[Hungry]

My daughter produced 2 children at one time.

Obviously there are some incidents of twins and triplets but let’s all be intellectually honest here. It’s the exception not the norm.

 

[Zmouth]

Well, then, The Fall happened after Genesis 2:24 so Jesus apparently wasn't phased by quoting Genesis 2:24 anyway. So, if Genesis 2:24 is still relevant despite The Fall happening later, then why not Genesis 1:28?

So who do you think said what was written in Genesis 2:24?

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:22-24

 

[Hepzibah]

I wonder what sin or bad diet l had adopted at the age of six months when l was admitted into hospital with mercury poisoning from some medication that was supposed to ease the pain from teething?

The result of which has caused me extreme problems through my life of 68 years from damage to the endocrine, detoxification and immune system, causing endless food and environmental sensitivities, pain and exhaustion.

At age six l can remember not being able to sleep in wintertime because of low body temperature.

I have eaten extremely healthy organically grown food and now a whole food plant based diet with only a little relief of symptoms.

God has however enabled me to dig deeply in the dark hills to reach silver and has shown me truths that few see. I am blessed.

 

[LPT]

Evidently you are unaware that the Bible itself tels us that the whole of creation has come under a curse. And that is exactly whY the present earth and atmospheric heaven will be purified by supernatural fire, in order to prepare for the New Heavens and the New Earth.

ROMANS 8 [THE CURSE = THE BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION]
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature [CREATION] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature [CREATION] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption,to wit, the redemption of our body.

2 PETER 3 [THE EARTH AND ATMOSPHERE TO BE PURIFIED]
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Another false notion. The Garden of Eden (called Paradise) was taken up to Heaven.

2 CORINTHIANS 12
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Indeed the creature Eden was created. and your supernatural fire will be in the form of a red giant.

Traveling and groaning doesn’t mean cursed and cursed is not even the right translation of the passage about the garden.

About your statement of eden into heaven, I’ve haven’t heard that before not interested in that Hoss.

Later,
blue,purple,scarlet

 

[wolfwint]

Nobody wants to see loved ones die but if you really analyze the earth as a big closed system, the things that naturally determine our populations and strength of gene selection have been horribly reduced. We produce one child at a time because He didn’t want us overpopulating. We have no natural enenmies, aside from eachother. Disease selects the weak, genetically flawed and unadaptable. We sabotage our own health. Healthy people don’t get sick. I eat as intended by nature. I don’t get colds. My body functions as a twenty year old and I’m in my forties. I don’t need to go to the gym for hours as some to maintain muscle and definition. Minutes a day, that’s all. Understanding how the machines, God entrusted to us, is like understanding your car. If you put diesel fuel in a gasoline engine of course it’s not going to function. If you omit oil, park it for years, submerge it in water, etc, you get the idea. Disease cleans the populations. We prevent the cleanse, allowing it to overtake us.

Then thanks god for your health. But it is not only because you eat healthy food. Lets tell again in 20 ore 30 years.
The death is in our genetic program. Made from God and is an consequence of sin in garden Eden. It is not as easy as you mean: eat healthy food and live healthy and you never will become sick. Many people in this world have no chance to eat healthy and live healthy. Because the so called western countrys destroyed their economicy for their own behalf. Many christians starve. Is this their own fault? Does God dont love them? Because they get sick? Go away with this, because it is a hit for every sick believer. And be thankful that you can live in a health condition.

 

[newton3003]

Also, I don't see what multiplying and being fruitful/ having dominion, has to do with marrying and not getting divorced.

Jesus was abiding by a passage that was written before The Fall, meaning he didn't deem passages written before The Fall to be irrelevant now, as you stated above about "future generations." In that regard, His command to have dominion over living things is just as relevant to "future generations," Fall or no Fall.

 

[newton3003]

This was spoken at creation. The Fall nullified this and brought a curse upon humanity and creation. So until Christ returns and sets up the Kingdom of God on earth, and until the New Heavens and the New Earth come into existence, this is not applicable.

It was also spoken after The Flood, therefore after The Fall. Genesis 9:2-3 says, "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered."" So, it still holds anyway.

 

[newton3003]

So who do you think said what was written in Genesis 2:24?

2 Timothy 3:16- "All Scripture is breathed out by God..."

 

[LPT]

Cursing can be found in most if not all religious traditions around the world. Although the content of these curses may vary, the purpose of curses seems to be remarkably consistent: enforcement of law, assertion of doctrinal orthodoxy, assurance of community stability, harassment of enemies, moral teaching, protection of sacred places or objects, and so forth.

 

[LPT]

It was also spoken after The Flood, therefore after The Fall. Genesis 9:2-3 says, "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered."" So, it still holds anyway.

Yea that speaks volume indeed, the vast majority of animal extinctions today is because of the hand man.

 

[LPT]

Bacteria and virus is it diseases or not?

 

[Hungry]

Then thanks god for your health. But it is not only because you eat healthy food. Lets tell again in 20 ore 30 years.
The death is in our genetic program. Made from God and is an consequence of sin in garden Eden. It is not as easy as you mean: eat healthy food and live healthy and you never will become sick. Many people in this world have no chance to eat healthy and live healthy. Because the so called western countrys destroyed their economicy for their own behalf. Many christians starve. Is this their own fault? Does God dont love them? Because they get sick? Go away with this, because it is a hit for every sick believer. And be thankful that you can live in a health condition.

I think you missed my point a bit. Eat healthy and live healthy is no guarantee for everyone to live illness and disease free for all of their days. An alcoholic great grandparent can cause you to be anemic. Less oxygen absorption in your body can cause all kinds of problems with none of it being your fault. Also, I never associated one’s health with how much God loves them. My point was simple. The OP was addressing why God created disease. My point was that disease helps “thin the herd”. If you have an environment that does not support a large population, then nature has a way to eliminate the numbers...like small pox. Our death, departure from this world isn’t a curse, it’s a blessing. It’s like early retirement. When there is genetic related illness that causes suffering, our death is like a factory recall, to prevent whole populations of deformities. When modern health jumps in and stops nature from taking its course we corrupt God’s design for natural selection. Instead of a little suffering for one person for a little while, in five hundred years you may have a thousand or more people all with prolonged suffering, sustaining the medical profession. Which caused the greater suffering?

 

[Hungry]

Yea that speaks volume indeed, the vast majority of animal extinctions today is because of the hand man.

After the flood men started eating meat. Within a few generations the length of life went from an average of 800 years to 80. Maybe a coincidence. Regardless, animals had a new reason to fear man.

 

[newton3003]

After the flood men started eating meat. Within a few generations the length of life went from an average of 800 years to 80. Maybe a coincidence. Regardless, animals had a new reason to fear man.

So does every living thing that causes disease to man.

 

[LPT]

After the flood men started eating meat. Within a few generations the length of life went from an average of 800 years to 80. Maybe a coincidence. Regardless, animals had a new reason to fear man.

Yea I’ve heard the no meat before the flood but IMO depends on who they were, righteous or non righteous. So proceed in the explaination of these verse below?

of man eating animals
Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

of animal eating plants.
Psalm 104:21 The young lions roar for their prey,
seeking their food from God.

 

[LPT]

Within a few generations the length of life went from an average of 800 years to 80. Maybe a coincidence. Regardless, animals had a new reason to fear man.

Not within a few gens but anyways Hebrew content has to be considered when using English words to translate them and there are quite a few mistranslations in an English Bible IMO.

here’s a good write up I think about the generation translation.

https://www.gotquestions.org/generation-in-the-Bible.html

 

[7seasrekeyed]

After the flood men started eating meat. Within a few generations the length of life went from an average of 800 years to 80. Maybe a coincidence. Regardless, animals had a new reason to fear man.

many animals have shown no fear when they have not yet met the big meat eaters

coincidence? how bout vegetarians? they have to be careful about getting enough of the B vitamins whereas us carnivores do not

mind I love vegetables...with a side of animal