Leviticus 19:34 and the Baby Jesus

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,069
8,384
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#21
it's as easy as looking at wiki to discover that there was trade and communication between the Persian & Chinese regions at least 100 BC -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Persian_relations
the silk road existed as far back as the Han dynasty, 200+ BC


written, detailed Chinese history goes back ~ 5,000 years, and shows a rich tradition of astronomical observation. ancient China was also monotheistic, and held wisdom in high cultural value. without going into any serious historical poking around ((definitely not post's forte)) there's ample reason to presume that in addition to goods, knowledge and philosophy was transmitted between the east and the west. it's plausible that the lore and prophecies of Daniel, who was very great in Babylonian mystical & sagacious society, could have made its way to China - there's motive & opportunity in the shared cultural value of concern for heavenly things and astronomy between Babylon/Persia & China, and the existence of the silk road.

the biggest factor for me in coming to the conclusion that some of the magi could have been Chinese is as i previously intimated, the time factor - i think Herod's '2 years old' decision gives us a pretty good idea of how long it was between observation of the sign in the heavens and the magi's arrival in Judea, and it's hard for me to imagine why a trip from Babylon to Jerusalem would take that long at that time, with well established routes and probably persons of means being involved.

someone ((sorry i can't remember who offhand :()) shared a video of a sermon teaching about links between Chinese writing and the Bible not too long ago, which i found absolutely fascinating -- and which corroborates some of my thinking about this. in the sermon, the teacher muses that knowledge of the truth about creation would have come from descendancy through Noah to the founders of the Chinese race & empires, which makes sense, but it doesn't exclude the sharing of wisdom & knowledge from the Levant with the East through other means.

it's a couple hours to watch both of these, if you have the time, but even without it's relationship to what we're discussing here, i really really really recommend having a listen to the information in these videos; i think you especially would enjoy them:

God in ancient China part 1:

part 2:

there's some weird pseudo-prosperity-gospel stuff at the end of part 2, especially, but set that aside and take in the information this guy's presenting. :)
he does mention both prophecy and astronomical observation of signs in the heavens, in ancient Chinese records that corroborates the birth of Christ -- IIRC that's in part 2 -- but i encourage you to watch both, so you have the context of part 1 to see what he is saying in part 2.


i already had the possibly-Chinese-view before i saw these, and they reinforced it for me, and present information much better than i could.
Yes...I will look at those later today.

BTW...the ominous gravitas of the situation in Matt 2 cannot be overstated.
A sizeable Parthian military force (whom the Romans never conquered) along with duly constituted civil governmental authorities show up in Jerusalem demanding to know where is the King of the Jews. Knowing full well that Herod is the sitting king of course. The otherwise murderous and intensely dictatorial Herod appeases the Parthian forces in order to avoid an international incident with the powerful Parthian kingdom.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
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#22
Yes...I will look at those later today.

BTW...the ominous gravitas of the situation in Matt 2 cannot be overstated.
A sizeable Parthian military force (whom the Romans never conquered) along with duly constituted civil governmental authorities show up in Jerusalem demanding to know where is the King of the Jews. Knowing full well that Herod is the sitting king of course. The otherwise murderous and intensely dictatorial Herod appeases the Parthian forces in order to avoid an international incident with the powerful Parthian kingdom.
yes

and the situation from Herod's perspective would only be more grave if the contingent of foreign emissaries wasn't just from Persia but also included representatives of further flung, powerful & independent Eastern empires ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,849
13,562
113
#23
BTW...the ominous gravitas of the situation in Matt 2 cannot be overstated.
A sizeable Parthian military force (whom the Romans never conquered) along with duly constituted civil governmental authorities show up in Jerusalem demanding to know where is the King of the Jews. Knowing full well that Herod is the sitting king of course. The otherwise murderous and intensely dictatorial Herod appeases the Parthian forces in order to avoid an international incident with the powerful Parthian kingdom.
this is a really good point.. let me substantiate it a bit more:

Herod wanted to kill John, but he was afraid of the people, because they considered John a prophet.
(Matthew 14:5)
Herod was hesitant to do anything about John, even though he hated him -- but he slaughtered how many children? with disregard for what the people would think about that?
something about the magi's visit and the news they brought compelled him to take very drastic measures with apparent disregard for the consequences to his image in the public's eye.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,502
13,806
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#24
The OP is a good example of a half-truth masquerading as truth. What Newton overlooked is that both Egypt and Israel were part of the Roman empire and not sovereign nations at the time. The world has changed significantly since then.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#25
The OP is a good example of a half-truth masquerading as truth. What Newton overlooked is that both Egypt and Israel were part of the Roman empire and not sovereign nations at the time. The world has changed significantly since then.
Yea I dont think they were seperate countries like the USA and mexico, they were both part of a bigger one. That is how Paul got to go on his missionary journeys later on the Roman roads and wasnt hindered, but he couldnt go into Asia.

Thats a thought why not unite USA and Mexico and Canada into one big North America like the EU. It could be ruled from...the North Pole.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
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#26
King herod at the time of Jesus birth was not the same King Herod that killed John the baptist. Because the first king Herod died and then Jesus and his parents went back to Israel I dont know how long they stayed away for though.

Could someone find out?
But yes Jesus was a refugee.
I dont know the situation with usa and mexico or whether usa is hostile to refugees, but they certainly had a history of slavery, which the .egyptians did also with the Hebrews.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
676
324
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#27
Thats a thought why not unite USA and Mexico and Canada into one big North America like the EU. It could be ruled from...the North Pole.
That might not work - President Santa Clause got stuck in my chimney last night.