What became of the NT pattern of two baptisms?

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Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#41
I am claiming the HS has baptized me into christ. That the HS has baptised me into his death and burial, where my sins were washed (also called the washing of the HS)

What evidence did I get? lol.. You need to study up the word baptize man. That evidence was given to the disciples to prove to THEM that the HS had come

Do we need proof today the HS was given? If you need proof. then something is wrong, because we have 2000 years of evidence the HS has come

and PS. the signs, they are given because of the anointing of the spirit. NOT THE BAPTISM.

The baptism of the spirit is him immersing us into Christ. nothign more nothing less
No evidence then?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#42
I dont know what you mean by creeds of the church. Which creed are you talking about..there seem to be a lot of different ones. Depending on which church you go to! Maybe its on..the other side of the page.
The Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed specifically.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,992
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#44
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?


Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
I think it was not omitted. The main reason why the doctrine of Baptisms were not being address in the so called “Christian Creeds” because at the time they were created, Christianity is combatting many heretical views which Christological conflict began as early as the second century. The focus are mainly of Gnostcism and other heretical views about the Godhead.

God bless
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#45
The Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed specifically.
Dont know sorry, post them here so we can see what you mean. As far as I know the creeds were Like shorthand beliefs in a nutshell, about the gospel, not its practice or how you go about obeying it. Some churches have statements of faith as their doctrines and some have like whole extra volumes of doctrines that you need to study if you join them thats even longer than the Bible itself.

I wouldnt worry about it if I were you just go by what the Bible says and what the holy spirit teaches you.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#46
Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church, nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted? Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
The answer is found in the history of the Church. Even while the apostles were alive, many heresies crept into the churches. Very soon after the demise of the apostles, the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration come into existence, and the true doctrine of regeneration by the power of the Holy Spirit and the baptism, WITH the Spirit was pushed aside.

According to Scripture one must be baptized with the Holy Spirit BEFORE one is baptized by immersion in water. See Acts 10 for the clearest example.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#47
You need evidence?

Thats ok. God knows. Thats enough for me.
In Acts 8:14-17 we see the Apostles going to Samaria to assist the new believers.
"because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." - vs 16

There must have been no evidence that the Spirit had come on them. (that's on, not in)
You contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit comes automatically without human assistance.
And in the example of Cornelius it did. But there was evidence. They spoke in tongues and praised God.

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#48
According to Scripture one must be baptized with the Holy Spirit BEFORE one is baptized by immersion in water. See Acts 10 for the clearest example.
The order of the baptisms can go either way.

Where does the baprism with the Holy Spiirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
In Acts 8:14-17 we see the Apostles going to Samaria to assist the new believers.
"because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them;
they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." - vs 16

There must have been no evidence that the Spirit had come on them. (that's on, not in)
You contend that the baptism with the Holy Spirit comes automatically without human assistance.
And in the example of Cornelius it did. But there was evidence. They spoke in tongues and praised God.

Acts 8:14-17
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Ok lets get to the chase

Which baptism do you believe is required to be saved.

Water

The baptism performed by God.

Are we saved by our works of righteousness, or Gods?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
The order of the baptisms can go either way.

Where does the baprism with the Holy Spiirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
You need to learn the difference between baptize and anoint, You have the two terms mixed up or your trying to interpret them as one event, they are not
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#51
Ok lets get to the chase

Which baptism do you believe is required to be saved.

Water

The baptism performed by God.

Are we saved by our works of righteousness, or Gods?
I'm amused by your mixed metaphors.
What do get when you combine "cut to the chase" and "get to the point"? (your opening sentence) lol

That's a great question though. Thanks.

Neither baptism is REQUIRED, to be saved.
Water baptism is a ceremony. An outward expression of an inward reality. (the part by which we were saved)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a personal decision, the same as water baptism is, and does NOT save us.

In short, we are NOT saved by baptism, either one.

What YOU call the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the indwelling that comes when we believe in Christ as savior.
But that is a RESULT of salvation, NOT a saving act.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
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#52
You need to learn the difference between baptize and anoint, You have the two terms mixed up or your trying to interpret them as one event, they are not
Which of these examples is "anoint", rather than "baptize"?

Where does the baptism with the Holy Spirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#53
What has become of this early church pattern of two baptisms?
I see two baptisms as the pattern established by the new testament church.

The Two Baptisms:
1) Water Baptism
2) The Baptism with the Holy Spirit
Not always in this order.

Seven examples of the established two baptism pattern:
A) Prophesied by John the Baptist - Matt.3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33
B) Prophesied by Christ - Acts 1:5
C) The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two
D) The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17
E) Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19
F) The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven
G) The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen

Somehow this pattern of two baptisms was not included in the Creeds of the Church,
nor included as standard doctrine. Why was it omitted?
Especially with the clear pattern we see in the scriptures listed above.
One, the true unseen work of the Holy Spirit. And the other as a shadow used in ceremonial law as shadows when a new priest desires to become part of the kingdom of priest. In that way he call all believers who desire to get the gospel out into the world kings as ambassadors sent from a foreign land, not of here, but the new heavenly Jerusalem representing the bride of Christ, the church.

It is what the question was about in John3:25-26

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.John3:25-26

In other words, they said to John from the tribe of levi. Why is a man from the tribe of Judah doing the officiating of a new priests? And therefore not realizing the Son of man, Jesus came to establish the new order after order of Melchizedek our High Priest continually without mother of father, without beginning of Spirt life or end thereof..(God is not a man as us) opening the way for all the nations of the world, men and women alike sent out with the gospel as a kingdom of priest . Jesus fulfilled that type or pattern called Melchizedek.

Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#54
I'm amused by your mixed metaphors.
What do get when you combine "cut to the chase" and "get to the point"? (your opening sentence) lol

That's a great question though. Thanks.

Neither baptism is REQUIRED, to be saved.
Water baptism is a ceremony. An outward expression of an inward reality. (the part by which we were saved)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a personal decision, the same as water baptism is, and does NOT save us.

In short, we are NOT saved by baptism, either one.

What YOU call the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the indwelling that comes when we believe in Christ as savior.
But that is a RESULT of salvation, NOT a saving act.

Is not salvation a saving act of God that he aplies to men when he gives them His faith needed to believe him, not seen, giving us a new spirit and new heart? How can you separate that work of salvation from salvation if it is the better thing that accompanies salvation redemption of our new soul, to begin with ?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
I'm amused by your mixed metaphors.
What do get when you combine "cut to the chase" and "get to the point"? (your opening sentence) lol

That's a great question though. Thanks.

Neither baptism is REQUIRED, to be saved.
Water baptism is a ceremony. An outward expression of an inward reality. (the part by which we were saved)
The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a personal decision, the same as water baptism is, and does NOT save us.

In short, we are NOT saved by baptism, either one.

What YOU call the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the indwelling that comes when we believe in Christ as savior.
But that is a RESULT of salvation, NOT a saving act.
I just wanted to get to the point, and we have and I thak you

Well your wrong

If you are not baptised by God, your not saved, You have not been washed, You have not been placed into union with Chrst, You have not been placed into his death and burial. Your still dead in your sin

Baptism o the spirit is an act of God. Not a personal dicision. Where did you come up with. That?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#56
Which of these examples is "anoint", rather than "baptize"?

Where does the baptism with the Holy Spirit occur in these examples?
The outpouring at Pentecost - Acts chapter two - AFTER
The believers in Samaria - Acts 8:14-17 - AFTER
Saul’s Conversion - Acts 9:17-19 - BEFORE
The house of Cornelius - Acts chapters ten and eleven - BEFORE
The disciples in Ephesus - Acts chapter nineteen - AFTER
If you knew what they meant you would not ask that question.

Can you even tell me what it means to be baptised, or to be anointed?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#57
I just wanted to get to the point, and we have and I thak you

Well your wrong

If you are not baptised by God, your not saved, You have not been washed, You have not been placed into union with Chrst, You have not been placed into his death and burial. Your still dead in your sin

Baptism o the spirit is an act of God. Not a personal dicision. Where did you come up with. That?
Charismatics need a sign to confirm they made the personal decision.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
Charismatics need a sign to confirm they made the personal decision.
Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeksafter a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#59
Matthew 12:39
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeksafter a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

I would agree according the law of signs. Prophecy leads those who believe not prophecy, signs follow.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
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#60
I think more simply about this. If I see it in the scripture then I want it.

My first baptism of water was sprinkling because I was attending the Reformed Church when I was born again. My new birth was a result of Holy Spirit speaking to me at a very low point of life and I chose to go Gods way.

From there I attended a full gospel church, and charismatic catholic meetings and heard singing in tongues. The most beautiful sound I ever heard. Even though I had received Holy Spirit at Explo 72 in Dallas, Tx, I didn't have full release of language. That came during a service at Christian Center, South Bend, Ind.

It's all there in Acts. So if it's there, it's for us all.

Oh, later I heard about being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, so did that too, yet the sprinkling was the experience that affected my heart moreso. It was like rain on me. :)