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ok, well, i'm not that Bible smart person. i understand that there will be 7 years that will be called the great tribulation. the "tribulation in those days" does not necessarily mean the Great Tribulation. "the tribulation in those days" refers to the now days. Therefore there are TWO tribulations. The one you pointed out, that's wat's happening now.
Luke 21:25-27 - 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
That is one tribulation, not the tribulation of the saints. The tribulation above does not in anyway describe the tribulations that will come to the saints after the rapture. When the tribulation described is over, THEN the rapture will happen.
Revelation 7:9:
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
i believe these are the christians that have been raptured. there are still many more chapters left in the book of Revelation, the rest of the chapters describe the great tribulation in the 7 years.
This is how i see it, what i believe.
Luke 21:25-27 - 25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
That is one tribulation, not the tribulation of the saints. The tribulation above does not in anyway describe the tribulations that will come to the saints after the rapture. When the tribulation described is over, THEN the rapture will happen.
Revelation 7:9:
9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
i believe these are the christians that have been raptured. there are still many more chapters left in the book of Revelation, the rest of the chapters describe the great tribulation in the 7 years.
This is how i see it, what i believe.
The Tribulation. John gives extensive coverage to the Tribulation, detailing the events in Revelation 6–19. The seven seals are unleashed upon the earth at the beginning of the Tribulation (Rev. 6:1–8:1), bringing the triumph of the Beast (6:1–2), war (6:3–4), famine (6:5–6), death (6:7–8), martyrdom (6:9–11), and celestial and earthly convulsions (6:12–17). The seals apparently continue through to the end of the Tribulation. The seventh seal initiates the seven trumpets (8:2–11:19). With the sounding of the trumpets the food and oxygen supply on earth is diminished (8:2–6), one-third of the sea life dies (8:7), the water source becomes polluted (8:10–11), the celestial bodies are darkened (8:12–13), people are tormented (9:1–12), and one-third of mankind is killed (9:13–21). The seventh trumpet inaugurated the bowl judgments (11:15–19; 15:1–16:21), resulting in painful sores (16:1–2), the death of sea life (16:3), rivers turning to blood (16:4–7), people scorched with heat (16:8–9), darkness (16:10–11), the unleashing of the mighty eastern army for the consummating battle (16:12–16), and a great earthquake, destroying the cities of the nations (16:17–21). Both religious Babylon (17:1–18) and commercial Babylon (18:1–24) are destroyed. The Tribulation culminates with Christ’s return, whereupon He subjugates the nations of the world (19:11–21). @book{Enns,-3864,
author = {Enns, Paul P.},
title = {The Moody handbook of theology},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago, Ill.},
year = {1997, c1989},
pages = {141},
keywords = {Theology; Fundamentalism; Dispensationalism; Evangelicalism},
}
author = {Enns, Paul P.},
title = {The Moody handbook of theology},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago, Ill.},
year = {1997, c1989},
pages = {141},
keywords = {Theology; Fundamentalism; Dispensationalism; Evangelicalism},
}
Eschatology
Eschatology refers to the belief and teaching about the final events (the word eschatos means “last”
and aspects of God’s work in salvation at the end of the world. What Paul believed about the culmination of individual salvation is relatively clear. The particular order of some of the events that are a part of the culminating sequence are less clear, but some idea of his mind on these matters can be determined from statements in these letters.
and aspects of God’s work in salvation at the end of the world. What Paul believed about the culmination of individual salvation is relatively clear. The particular order of some of the events that are a part of the culminating sequence are less clear, but some idea of his mind on these matters can be determined from statements in these letters.GLORIFICATION
The culmination of salvation for individuals is glorification. God’s plan regarding salvation is summarily stated by Paul this way: “those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Rom. 8:30). Glorification involves several aspects, including deliverance from the presence of sin and all its pernicious effects at death (1 Cor. 15:55–56) into the presence of God.
Entrance into God’s presence at death. Though Paul did not write explicitly about the circumstance of Christians entering into the presence of Christ and God immediately at death, an understanding of this sort is implied by his word of assurance to the Thessalonians that “God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him” (1 Thess. 4:14). The verb “fall asleep” (koimaō) was sometimes used to refer to death by both biblical and nonbiblical writers, but Paul frequently employed it to describe the death of Christians (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:6, 18, 20, 51).
Related to this issue is the understanding that Paul’s anthropology included the conviction that people are composed of material and immaterial parts. He told the Romans that “if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness” (Rom. 8:10). The spiritual aspect of a believer enters at death into the Lord’s presence. In 2 Corinthians 5 Paul wrote in terms of the two spheres of mortality and immortality (without discussion of any phases in that experience).24 Still his profession that he would “prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord” (v. 8) can be applied to the circumstance of those Christians he described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14. Thus the first phase of the experience of glorification is entrance into the presence of the Lord at death.
Resurrection of the body. But the process of glorification for the individual Christian that begins at death with the spiritual aspect of the believer is completed at the resurrection with the transformation of the Christian’s body. As Paul assured the Thessalonians, “According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep … the dead in Christ will rise first” (1 Thess. 4:15–16).
Paul discussed the resurrection most extensively in 1 Corinthians 15. As he told the Corinthians, the resurrection of Christians will follow the pattern of Jesus’ resurrection (v. 20). But defining the nature of the resurrected body was no easy task. Paul’s depiction was more suggestive than descriptive (vv. 35–57) and has produced discussion and debate among interpreters even in the present.25
For example, he compared the mortal body to a seed. As a seed is sown in the ground, so the body is laid in a grave. But the flower that emerges from that seed is remarkably different and grander than the lowly seed that was sown. As Paul put it, “it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body” (vv. 43–44).
When Paul described the resurrected body as a “spiritual body,” did he mean it was nonmaterial? Probably not. As in the case of the references to “glory” and “power,” “spiritual” identifies the resurrection body with the Holy Spirit’s work. In salvation the Holy Spirit is the Agent who begins and completes the process of transformation. But to conclude that Paul envisioned that Christians would become like the Holy Spirit with a non-material existence is an overinterpretation of Paul’s point.
Paul, in fact, explicitly likened the Christian’s resurrected body to Christ’s resurrected body (vv. 20, 45–49). If he regarded Christ’s resurrected body as a non-material mode of being, like that of the Holy Spirit, he expressed this in a remarkably oblique manner. What distinguished the Son from the Father and from the Holy Spirit was His incarnation. If Paul meant to say that the incarnate Son became again a purely spiritual being at His resurrection, and Christians likewise will gain this mode of being, his words to the Corinthians about the necessity of a resurrection seem curiously beside the point. Though it is clear that Paul did not articulate precisely the nature of Christ’s resurrected body with all its glorious differences, he conceived of it, nonetheless, as a corporeal form of existence.
This bodily transformation would also be experienced by Christians living at the time of Jesus’ return. As Paul told the Corinthians, “We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.… the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality” (vv. 51–53). Thus the experience of glorification for those alive at Christ’s return begins at His appearing (cf. 1 Thess. 4:17).
Earlier in this letter to the Corinthians Paul compared the present experience of salvation with the future this way: “Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known” (13:12). The heart of glorification is this enjoyment of God’s presence and the unimpaired fellowship with Him that will exist. Paul envisoned the end of all things as a state in which “God may be all in all” (15:28), in which no opposition will remain and His people will live completely in His presence.
24 For further discussion about this and the question of an “intermediate state,” see David K. Lowery, “2 Corinthians,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, 565–66.25 See, e.g., the discussion and debate about the nature of the resurrection body carried on by Murray J. Harris, Raised Immortal (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1985) and From Grave to Glory (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1990); and Norman L. Geisler, The Battle for the Resurrection (Nashville: Nelson, 1989) and In Defense of the Resurrection (Clayton, Calif.: Witness, 1991).
@book{Zuck,-1366,
author = {Zuck, Roy B.},
title = {A Biblical Theology of the New Testament},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago},
year = {1994; Published in electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996},
pages = {291},
keywords = {Bible. N.T.},
edition = {electronic ed.},
}
THE SEQUENCE OF FINAL EVENTS
While there is some discussion and disagreement about the nature of the resurrection body and related aspects of the experience of glorification, it is a debate that involves less diversity of interpretation than the question about Paul’s understanding of the sequence of events that usher in the end of the present world. In part, this diversity in viewpoint may be due to the fact that Paul’s perception of the order of these events may itself have been indefinite. Or it may be that his readers had a better understanding of his view based on teaching previously received from him. When, for example, he wrote the Thessalonians with a word of clarification about these matters he asked, “Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?” (2 Thess. 2:5). Whatever the case may be, what follows is one interpretation that attempts to integrate Paul’s various statements about culminating events and also mention alternative points of view about Paul’s meaning.
The Day of the Lord. Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians are a good place to begin this discussion since questions about the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of living Christians at Jesus’ return were issues of great concern to that community. In his second letter to them Paul said, “Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come” (2 Thess. 2:1–2). Whether Paul had in mind two or three different avenues of testimony about the Day of the Lord is uncertain. He knew that each of them was false, but the convergences of these witnesses (cf. Deut. 19:15) understandably upset the Thessalonians, particularly if Paul had taught them that Christians were destined to escape God’s judgments associated with the Day of the Lord.
References to this day are found in various statements of the Old Testament prophets. Although these references sometimes depict the time as one of blessing for God’s people and judgment for others (e.g., Joel 2:28–32; Zeph. 3:8–20), the emphasis is more often on the day as a time of God’s wrath. Zephaniah said, “The great day of the Lord is near … a day of wrath, a day of distress and anguish … because they have sinned against the Lord.… Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the Lord’s wrath. In the fire of his jealousy the whole world will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live in the earth” (Zeph. 1:14–18). As Joel summarily described it, “Alas for that day! For the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty” (Joel 1:15).
Given these catastrophic descriptions of that time, it may seem strange that the Thessalonians could entertain the notion that “the day of the Lord has already come” (2 Thess. 2:2). However, Paul had advised them earlier that “the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night” (1 Thess. 5:2), and he told them in the meantime to “be alert and self-controlled” (v. 6). Understandably, they may have thought themselves remiss in one or both of these areas, lacking in faithfulness or self-control. And because they were experiencing persecution (2 Thess. 1:4), they were susceptible to doubts and questions about the timing of God’s deliverance.
The time of deliverance. In his first letter to the Thessalonians Paul had twice assured them that they would not experience God’s wrath. He described them as people who “wait for his son from heaven … Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath” (1 Thess. 1:10). He later affirmed that “God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (5:9). It is not the fact of deliverance that is questioned by interpreters of Paul, but its timing.
This deliverance is often referred to as the Rapture, an old word meaning “the act of conveying a person from one place to another, esp. to heaven.”26 It is used to describe Paul’s conviction that “we who are still alive and left will be caught up … in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (4:17). Interpreters of Paul generally place this deliverance at either the beginning of the time of God’s wrath, in the middle of it, or near the end.
Those who believe the Rapture will occur before the day of wrath regard this as the view most in accord with Paul’s statements about deliverance from wrath. Those who believe that the Rapture will occur in the middle of this period read what Paul said about a “man of lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 in light of Daniel’s prophecy about “one who causes desolation,” whose decisive action at the midpoint of a particular era precipitates desolation (Dan. 9:27; 11:36). Those who believe the Rapture will occur at the end of this time of wrath see no compelling reason to separate it temporally from Christ’s second coming. They believe the view that Christians will meet Christ in the air and then accompany Him as He returns to vanquish all opposition on the earth is the most likely reading of Paul’s message.
A case can be made for each of these views, and each has certain problems as well. Those who separate the Rapture from the Second Coming (i.e., those who see it occurring before or those who see it occurring in the middle of the time of wrath) are hard-pressed to find this distinction expressed anywhere else in Paul’s writings. But those who link the Rapture and the Second Coming must struggle to defend the view that Paul did not have in mind the assumption of Christians directly to heaven in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, but rather their return with Christ to the earth. As a recent commentator has observed, there is no indication in the passage that the resurrected and raptured accompany Christ to the earth. On the contrary, Paul’s statement “suggests that both dead and living Christians will return to heaven with the Lord, not only to enjoy continuous fellowship with him, but also, in terms of 1:10, to be saved from the coming wrath of God.”27
26 The Oxford English Dictionary, 8:153.27 Charles A. Wanamaker, Commentary on 1 & 2 Thessalonians (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1990), 175.
@book{Zuck,-69,
author = {Zuck, Roy B.},
title = {A Biblical Theology of the New Testament},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago},
year = {1994; Published in electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996},
pages = {293},
keywords = {Bible. N.T.},
edition = {electronic ed.},
}
THE JUDGMENT OF GOD
Paul’s belief in the certainty of God’s judgment is clear from his various statements in these letters. The most extensive discussion is in Romans 2, where he affirmed that the judgment of God would be according to truth (v. 2), that it would be based on behavior representative of a person’s life, whether good or evil (vv. 6–10), and that it would be without partiality (v. 11). These principles of judgment apply to all people, though Paul knew that humanity left to its own devices would incur certain condemnation (3:10–20), the essence of which was ultimate separation from God’s presence. He told the Thessalonians that God “will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thess. 1:8–9).
The only escape from the sentence of condemnation and the penalty it brings is the gift of righteousness (“This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe,” Rom. 3:22). Paul affirmed for Christians that “there is now no condemnation” (8:1). This does not mean that Paul had abandoned the principles of judgment he had stated earlier in his letter to the Romans. Rather, it is by means of the Spirit that Christians are able to enter the category of those “who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality” (Rom. 2:7; cf. 8:4).
When he wrote to the Corinthians, Paul reminded them that “we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10), a statement also consistent with the principles found in Romans 2. Similarly, he told the Romans, “we will all stand before God’s judgment seat … so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” (14:10, 12). The alteration of Christ and God on the judgment seat reflects Paul’s conviction that “God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ” (2:16). As he told the Corinthians, “Judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts” (1 Cor. 4:5).
The fact that Paul thought in categorical terms of Christians “doing good” did not preclude his recognition that believers sometimes could be seriously remiss in their manner of life. He reminded the Corinthians that God’s judgment was not only a future reality. Some in the church had brought the judgment of God on themselves, even as Paul wrote: “That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.… When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world” (11:30, 32).
The experience of these Corinthians is similar to the situation of Christian ministers described earlier in this letter (3:10–15). The result of a minister’s service to the church “will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames” (vv. 13–15). Like the minister in Paul’s admonition, the disciplined Christians described in chapter 11 are saved (“not … condemned with the world,” v. 32), but they are like those escaping through the flames.28
For Christians characterized by faithfulness, there is a reward at the judgment. According to Paul, “At that time each will receive his praise from God” (4:5). This commendation of God may well have summarized the essence of reward for Paul. However, he did refer later in this letter to Christians who will judge angels and the world (6:2–3). This may be a case in which the verb translated “judge” (krinō) meant something closer to “govern” or “rule.”29 It also may be an aspect of what it means for Christians to be “co-heirs with Christ” and “share in his glory” (Rom. 8:17). But this is an instance in which the original readers of his letters probably knew more than readers today know about Paul’s thought on this subject.
THE CONSUMMATION OF ALL THINGS
Like the Old Testament prophet Isaiah (Isa. 65:17–25), Paul looked forward to a radical change in the natural world, a virtual emancipation of creation itself (Rom. 8:18–21). When Christians enter into their glorification then “the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God” (v. 21). This renewal will take place at Christ’s return.
Whether this renewal will immediately give way to the eternal state or will usher in a time during which the expectations of the Old Testament prophets will find fulfillment (e.g., Isa. 11:6–9) is debated. Paul’s letters are indecisive on this point, but if he envisioned such an era before the advent of the eternal state, he has given only a vague indication of it in 1 Corinthians 15:23–24. There he described the order of the resurrections as “each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him” (v. 23). The first stage, Christ’s resurrection, has occurred. But nearly 2,000 years have elapsed, and the second stage has yet to be fulfilled. It is possible that a third stage is described in v. 24, “then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” On this reading, the resurrection of all people will take place in a third stage after the earthly renewal anticipated by the Old Testament prophets is fulfilled and judgment against all the enemies of God is completed: “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death” (vv. 25–26, cf. Rev. 20:1–15).30
Paul stated that Christ’s authority will be universally acknowledged and His judgment comprehensively applied. When that is completed, the Son Himself will defer to the Father’s authority in whose stead and power He had acted. That submission of the Son will be the last act of history. Then will begin the eternal state that Paul cryptically described as God being “all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28).
6
28 In 1 Corinthians 3:17 the one who “destroys God’s temple” is apparently an unbeliever.29 Bauer, Arndt, and Gingrich, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 452.
30 For a recent presentation of this view, see D. Edmond Hiebert, “Evidence from 1 Corinthians,” in A Case for Premillenialism, 225–34.
@book{Zuck,-830,
author = {Zuck, Roy B.},
title = {A Biblical Theology of the New Testament},
publisher = {Moody Press},
address = {Chicago},
year = {1994; Published in electronic form by Logos Research Systems, 1996},
pages = {295},
keywords = {Bible. N.T.},
edition = {electronic ed.},
}
that's all for me happy reading
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I found your post, and now i will reply. There is no question that the tribulation Jesus returns after is the great tribulation the great tribulation in Matthew 24 and the tribulation of those day in Mark 13 are one and the same, here is your biblical proof.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place. The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.
Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
You see this tribulation Jesus returns after is the worse tribulation that ever has been or ever will be, it can be no other than The Great Tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place. The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.
Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
You see this tribulation Jesus returns after is the worse tribulation that ever has been or ever will be, it can be no other than The Great Tribulation.
T
Yes, it will be after the tribulation, but we don't know when that will be. I have heard people say that when the Bible says we don't know the day or the hour, that means we can still know the general time, which I think is ridiculous. When the Bible speaks about not knowing "the day or the hour", it's obvious it's another way of saying we "don't know at all." It's a figure of speech.
Remember at the beginning of Acts, Jesus said to His disciples, "It's not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority." He didn't say "Remember what I told you earlier? Just after the tribulation" or "Well, I'll give you a rough idea." He said "it's not for you to know." Full stop. Then He went on to something else.
As I've said, the history of the church is littered with tragic mistakes from people who have tried to guess the dates, and have been wrong over and over and over again. Why do people not learn from these errors?
Remember at the beginning of Acts, Jesus said to His disciples, "It's not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority." He didn't say "Remember what I told you earlier? Just after the tribulation" or "Well, I'll give you a rough idea." He said "it's not for you to know." Full stop. Then He went on to something else.
As I've said, the history of the church is littered with tragic mistakes from people who have tried to guess the dates, and have been wrong over and over and over again. Why do people not learn from these errors?
O
I would have to disagree. It is true we cannot know the day or hour but we are commanded to know the general time. Jesus called the pharisees a wicked generation partly because they could not discern the signs of the time. We are to understand the signs of the time, also Paul told us to watch and be sober. What are we watching for for Jesus to pop out of the clouds? NO, then it would be too late. We are to watch for are the signs of the times, so that we will know Christ coming is soon. Matter of fact Jesus tells us once the Tribulation reaches it most horrible heights to lift are head for now we will know are redemption is drawing near.
Luke 21:24-28
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Take a close look at verse 28.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
So we will definitely know the general time of Christ's return, once the great Tribulation has started we will have no more than 3.5 years before the return of Christ.
Luke 21:24-28
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Take a close look at verse 28.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
So we will definitely know the general time of Christ's return, once the great Tribulation has started we will have no more than 3.5 years before the return of Christ.
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