Rightly divided

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I guess the thing I don’t understand is.....if you confess your sins every time you sin and use 1 John 1:9 to support it..the scripture says he will cleanse us from “all” unrighteousness, how many times can we be cleansed of “all” unrighteousness? When i think of Christ, on the cross, who died for all sin, past present, and future......is this not the same? All unrighteousness?
No, you understand your take on it but want others to conform to that understanding.
Cleansing for the believer deals with our conscience.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:14 KJV)

This is an ongoing purging as in John 15...that we may bear more fruit.
 
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In the gospel of John it says that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. Perhaps you might want this to apply for you but I thank God that it applies to me. It also says in the same book that God is love. I'm glad that applies to me as well.
This was spoken in the context of salvation....it is my view that Paul is our appostle, as jesus revealed the mystery unto him to give to us....
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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This was spoken in the context of salvation....it is my view that Paul is our appostle, as jesus revealed the mystery unto him to give to us....
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; (1 Timothy 6:3 KJV)

It is your turn to do some explaining. Please explain why Paul referred us to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I ask this question respectfully Kayla...

Are you a sinner? Do you sin?
Do I fail and commit sin,yes I do. I don't know a Christian that is being honest that can answer that question any other way. But failing and committing a sin is different than living in sin.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
703
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Do I fail and commit sin,yes I do. I don't know a Christian that is being honest that can answer that question any other way. But failing and committing a sin is different than living in sin.
That is sort of correct.
Point being that our version of a sinless life differs greatly from what God views as a sinless life.
From God’s point of view everyone ever created is taking a bubble bath in sin and just loving it! That is the reality!
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
That is sort of correct.
Point being that our version of a sinless life differs greatly from what God views as a sinless life.
From God’s point of view everyone ever created is taking a bubble bath in sin and just loving it! That is the reality!
Right,there was a song years ago that said "Jesus is my lawyer in heaven" The point being that God sees us through the blood of Christ. I do agree with that.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
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From God’s point of view everyone ever created is taking a bubble bath in sin and just loving it! That is the reality!
Hopefully that does not apply to those who have been recreated with a new heart.
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
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I agree about Paul and that we are free from the law.
I 100% disagree on ignoring the Gospels! How can you say disregard the teachings of Jesus?
He has to disregard the teachings of Jesus because they conflict so seriously with Paul. How do we reconcile the 2?
 
Dec 26, 2018
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If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; (1 Timothy 6:3 KJV)

It is your turn to do some explaining. Please explain why Paul referred us to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ?

Ok, I read over it, I also pray that the Lord helps me in this interpretation of his word.

When I ask questions, I do not do it with sarcasm or as though I am speaking down to you.

Why do you think Paul would even need to refer those that wanted to teach (pastors) to Our Lord and Saviors word? Would it not be obvious that Paul has come to preach his word? Paul only spoke unto believers, in this case Timothy, in a pastorial message..it was not as if he were speaking to pagans.

After you asked the question, I took the time to read the entire chapter, which put the single passage into context for me, as to give you the due diligence of my response.

Paul is simply saying....keep what “I” teach you, “not others”. Paul is not claiming credit as though the gospel and mystery was not given unto him by Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, but making a distinction on the specific message he has, and the importance that “his” message is unto salvation....NOONE else, not the gospel of Matthew, Not Mark etc...Also, Paul is reiterating that we are no more under the law(even though it is good if used wisely.1 Tim 1:8) , for pastors that understand that we are at the end of commandments, and in charity...no longer under the law, not desiring to teach the law.

Paul emphasizes here, that some, are trying to teach the law

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

As for the passage itself, that you asked of me to explain....

Paul is definitely referring us to the Lords word (it is ALL the inspired word of God) would a pastorial message not assume that? Of course it would, because it is all Gods word, Do you think it necessary, in a pastorial message, that he make a distinction, and remind those “teachers” to follow the Lords wholesome words, and doctrine of “Godliness”, if there were no difference in the message he was given for the gentiles? He is not referring us to a doctrine in which Our Lord and Savior preached unto the lost sheep of Israel, under the law. He is referring the teacher to Pastor us, in a method consistent of what was already assumed.....All scripture is “for” you....but not all scripture is “about you”.

Look into your heart, I grew up in your doctrine, it took a tragedy in my life to get me out. I have no more confusion, the family I had that was TORN APART!! through judging one another, accusing each other of not repenting, and treating each other as a non believer...we are now back together and learning the lords word..(Satan did not do this) it is absolutely amazing, my faith and temptation to sin(even though I am not under its jurisdiction) Is so much stronger than I ever thought possible...

I simply see sin as a waste of time, and if commited, I recognize THAT is what my savior died for...and somehow, I have wanted to sin less and less and less...God knew all along, (so do we by paying attention to our children, by giving them some freedom, they stop asking for it so much, and they stop sneaking out and lying to us)....by freeing me unconditionally through believing in Christ, was a better plan of salvation than making you pay an entry fee, beyond believing in who he is...The Holy Spirit resides in GODS plan...NOT using your own understanding...the doctrine I follow, does not give a free ticket to sin (GOD KNOWS) what happens from the real liberation of Grace...Paul said, don’t slip back into slavery, you are free...therefore judge not thy brethren..

If you and I were to follow every word that our lord and savior taught, and not understand the difference between wholesome words like “love” , the doctrine of godliness from the perspective, and dispinsation from which it was preached, you would lose your soul In a life of self condemanation, constant failure, miss the beauty and gift of salvation through faith “without works” for those that believe.

Love you all
 
Dec 26, 2018
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Ok, I read over it, I also pray that the Lord helps me in this interpretation of his word.

When I ask questions, I do not do it with sarcasm or as though I am speaking down to you.

Why do you think Paul would even need to refer those that wanted to teach (pastors) to Our Lord and Saviors word? Would it not be obvious that Paul has come to preach his word? Paul only spoke unto believers, in this case Timothy, in a pastorial message..it was not as if he were speaking to pagans.

After you asked the question, I took the time to read the entire chapter, which put the single passage into context for me, as to give you the due diligence of my response.

Paul is simply saying....keep what “I” teach you, “not others”. Paul is not claiming credit as though the gospel and mystery was not given unto him by Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, but making a distinction on the specific message he has, and the importance that “his” message is unto salvation....NOONE else, not the gospel of Matthew, Not Mark etc...Also, Paul is reiterating that we are no more under the law(even though it is good if used wisely.1 Tim 1:8) , for pastors that understand that we are at the end of commandments, and in charity...no longer under the law, not desiring to teach the law.

Paul emphasizes here, that some, are trying to teach the law

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

As for the passage itself, that you asked of me to explain....

Paul is definitely referring us to the Lords word (it is ALL the inspired word of God) would a pastorial message not assume that? Of course it would, because it is all Gods word, Do you think it necessary, in a pastorial message, that he make a distinction, and remind those “teachers” to follow the Lords wholesome words, and doctrine of “Godliness”, if there were no difference in the message he was given for the gentiles? He is not referring us to a doctrine in which Our Lord and Savior preached unto the lost sheep of Israel, under the law. He is referring the teacher to Pastor us, in a method consistent of what was already assumed.....All scripture is “for” you....but not all scripture is “about you”.

Look into your heart, I grew up in your doctrine, it took a tragedy in my life to get me out. I have no more confusion, the family I had that was TORN APART!! through judging one another, accusing each other of not repenting, and treating each other as a non believer...we are now back together and learning the lords word..(Satan did not do this) it is absolutely amazing, my faith and temptation to sin(even though I am not under its jurisdiction) Is so much stronger than I ever thought possible...

I simply see sin as a waste of time, and if commited, I recognize THAT is what my savior died for...and somehow, I have wanted to sin less and less and less...God knew all along, (so do we by paying attention to our children, by giving them some freedom, they stop asking for it so much, and they stop sneaking out and lying to us)....by freeing me unconditionally through believing in Christ, was a better plan of salvation than making you pay an entry fee, beyond believing in who he is...The Holy Spirit resides in GODS plan...NOT using your own understanding...the doctrine I follow, does not give a free ticket to sin (GOD KNOWS) what happens from the real liberation of Grace...Paul said, don’t slip back into slavery, you are free...therefore judge not thy brethren..

If you and I were to follow every word that our lord and savior taught, and not understand the difference between wholesome words like “love” , the doctrine of godliness from the perspective, and dispinsation from which it was preached, you would lose your soul In a life of self condemanation, constant failure, miss the beauty and gift of salvation through faith “without works” for those that believe.

Love you all
TODAY ONE GOSPEL but not during these times...more than one gospel was preached, one gospel was left for us
 
Dec 26, 2018
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He has to disregard the teachings of Jesus because they conflict so seriously with Paul. How do we reconcile the 2?
We can reconcile it by saying this...

All scripture is for us, but not about us...I do not mean to ignore it as though it isn’t the inspired word of god....all scripture is needed for study and to make sense of the dispinsation we reside in..and where we are in Gods plan..as they are all tied together. The gospels of Matthew for instance, were preached during the dispinsation of the law, the gospel of Paul was preached during the dispinsation of grace.....2 completely different programs....The dispinsation of the law was a performance based program.....We are now in the dispinsation of Grace (Faith WITHOUT works) monumental difference!!!
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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TODAY ONE GOSPEL but not during these times...more than one gospel was preached, one gospel was left for us
I think another way to view what you see as “two gospels” might also be seen as simply a full understanding of what God intended from the beginning, simply, a mystery revealed. A progressive revelation, if you will.

Here is an article that ties up a few loose ends, hope it helps;

Only One Gospel
“The gospel … is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith’” (Rom. 1:16-17).
- Romans 1:16-17
Despite Adam’s failure to keep covenant in Eden, which introduced a division between the created order and the heavenly kingdom, God did not leave humanity without any hope. Instead, He promised to bring about the restoration of His kingdom through the defeat of Satan (Gen. 3:15). This initial gospel of the kingdom was later proclaimed more fully as it was revealed that the kingdom’s arrival would mean eternal life for its citizens and the renewal of all creation (Isa. 25:1–9). Becoming a righteous citizen in this kingdom is possible through faith alone, a faith that trusts the divine promises even when it is hardest to do so (Hab. 2:4).
The coming of the kingdom and its renewal of creation would accompany the restoration of the exiled Israelites to their land (Deut. 30:1–10; Zech. 14). Moreover, the dead would rise (Dan. 12:2) and Gentiles would pour into the kingdom (Isa. 19:16–25; Micah 4:1–5). Thus, the ancient Jews were saddened when, after returning to Canaan from Persia, they did not see the kingdom’s glories immediately.
But God was being merciful, choosing to bring His kingdom in stages and not all at once, giving the world time to turn to Him. So Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom, proclaiming that the kingdom of God is both a present and future reality, and that all who repent and trust in Him in the present are declared righteous citizens, guaranteed to enjoy all the kingdom’s benefits in its future consummation (Mark 4:30–32; John 3:16). That Jesus is the agent who brings the kingdom was confirmed in the signs of restoration in His ministry. His miracles and resurrection were a foretaste of the promised new creation, proving that He will finish what He started.
Since the days of Jesus, the future kingdom has been brought into the present. And because the kingdom is here, it is now time for the Gentiles to be saved, and so apostles like Paul heeded the call to bring the gospel message to all the earth. God’s grace is seen clearly in the extension of the kingdom to the Gentiles, for even though those who are not physical descendants of Abraham are foreigners to the Lord’s covenants, He does not require anything more of them for citizenship in the kingdom than He does of those who already have the oracles of God. In other words, as Romans 1:16–17 says, both Jews and Gentiles enter the kingdom by faith alone.
Coram Deo
The gospel tells us that we can become citizens of Christ’s kingdom through faith in Him alone. Yet we often try to complicate this simple message by adding additional requirements for citizenship. Whether we do this consciously or unconsciously, let us remember that God requires nothing but faith for citizenship in His kingdom. This is grace, for we would never make it into the kingdom if our works were a prerequisite for entry.
 
Dec 26, 2018
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I think another way to view what you see as “two gospels” might also be seen as simply a full understanding of what God intended from the beginning, simply, a mystery revealed. A progressive revelation, if you will.

Here is an article that ties up a few loose ends, hope it helps;

Only One Gospel
“The gospel … is the power of God to salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, ‘The righteous shall live by faith’” (Rom. 1:16-17).
- Romans 1:16-17
Despite Adam’s failure to keep covenant in Eden, which introduced a division between the created order and the heavenly kingdom, God did not leave humanity without any hope. Instead, He promised to bring about the restoration of His kingdom through the defeat of Satan (Gen. 3:15). This initial gospel of the kingdom was later proclaimed more fully as it was revealed that the kingdom’s arrival would mean eternal life for its citizens and the renewal of all creation (Isa. 25:1–9). Becoming a righteous citizen in this kingdom is possible through faith alone, a faith that trusts the divine promises even when it is hardest to do so (Hab. 2:4).
The coming of the kingdom and its renewal of creation would accompany the restoration of the exiled Israelites to their land (Deut. 30:1–10; Zech. 14). Moreover, the dead would rise (Dan. 12:2) and Gentiles would pour into the kingdom (Isa. 19:16–25; Micah 4:1–5). Thus, the ancient Jews were saddened when, after returning to Canaan from Persia, they did not see the kingdom’s glories immediately.
But God was being merciful, choosing to bring His kingdom in stages and not all at once, giving the world time to turn to Him. So Jesus came preaching the gospel of the kingdom, proclaiming that the kingdom of God is both a present and future reality, and that all who repent and trust in Him in the present are declared righteous citizens, guaranteed to enjoy all the kingdom’s benefits in its future consummation (Mark 4:30–32; John 3:16). That Jesus is the agent who brings the kingdom was confirmed in the signs of restoration in His ministry. His miracles and resurrection were a foretaste of the promised new creation, proving that He will finish what He started.
Since the days of Jesus, the future kingdom has been brought into the present. And because the kingdom is here, it is now time for the Gentiles to be saved, and so apostles like Paul heeded the call to bring the gospel message to all the earth. God’s grace is seen clearly in the extension of the kingdom to the Gentiles, for even though those who are not physical descendants of Abraham are foreigners to the Lord’s covenants, He does not require anything more of them for citizenship in the kingdom than He does of those who already have the oracles of God. In other words, as Romans 1:16–17 says, both Jews and Gentiles enter the kingdom by faith alone.
Coram Deo
The gospel tells us that we can become citizens of Christ’s kingdom through faith in Him alone. Yet we often try to complicate this simple message by adding additional requirements for citizenship. Whether we do this consciously or unconsciously, let us remember that God requires nothing but faith for citizenship in His kingdom. This is grace, for we would never make it into the kingdom if our works were a prerequisite for entry.
Amen Sypsey, thank you for posting that!
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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"Tolerance" is just another name for "INDIFFERENCE"
The coward's apologetic.

Indifferent to the scriptures
Indifferent to sound doctrine that came down through the ages
Indifferent to the character of God
Indifferent to whatever does not agree with their own tenets

Probably will be surprised to realize some day that God is NOT indifferent about truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
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The dispinsation [dispensation] of the law was a performance based program...
Not really. The OT saints were all justified by grace through faith starting with Abel. Those who were justified were also obedient to God. Kindly read and study Hebrews 11.
 
Dec 26, 2018
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Not really. The OT saints were all justified by grace through faith starting with Abel. Those who were justified were also obedient to God. Kindly read and study Hebrews 11.
I agree, but speaking on that specific matter we are discussing and within context....The law, was performance based
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,144
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Not really. The OT saints were all justified by grace through faith starting with Abel. Those who were justified were also obedient to God. Kindly read and study Hebrews 11.
Would those ot saints received justification without being obedient to God’s word? Were they justified by their own individual faith which required obedience? No obedience, no justification?
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
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Paul wrote that the law was good but he was carnal so then It's very rite to have kept GODs law since the same GOD that spoke In the old testament Is the same GOD who speaks In new testament and GODs WORD doesn't change.

Remember also that the rich young ruler approached JESUS and said good "master" what must I do to Inherit Eternal Life and JESUS told him why do you call ME "good" ,their Is only ONE that IS good and that Is GOD.

Then JESUS told him you know the commandments.

But how was the rich young ruler going to be perfect In his own strength?

JESUS told him to keep the commandments with his own strength,why?

Answer=The rich young ruler looked at the outward appearance of JESUS when he should have realized that only GOD could give him eternal life.

So the JESUS dealt with him the way a man/priest would deal with him under law

We come short of the glory of GOD BECAUSE of the weakness of our flesh although the Spirit Is willing the flesh Is weak.

Paul wrote that the law was good but he Is carnal sold under sin.
So did Jesus tell the young ruler what he really needed to be saved, or did Jesus lead him onto a path that would not save him?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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Would those ot saints received justification without being obedient to God’s word? Were they justified by their own individual faith which required obedience? No obedience, no justification?
Obedience follows justification.

NOAH
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Gen 6:8) = JUSTIFICATION

Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he (Gen 6:22) = OBEDIENCE

ABRAHAM
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:6) = JUSTIFICATION

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. (Gen 22:12) = OBEDIENCE