Does entering into Jesus' rest mean we're to give up the Sabbath day? Is the 4th commandment part of the moral law of God?

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Luke 13: KJV
1 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilæans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. {2} And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilæans were sinners above all the Galilæans, because they suffered such things? {3} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. {4} Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? {5} I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Repentance is a change in mind... If one changes their mind and acknowledges that their sin is a transgression against the will of God and they have no resistance to the teachings of Jesus, the WORD of GOD. Then they are repentant of all their sins.. Now some people preach that repentance is only achieved when one ceases to sin.. That if you have not achieved a state of living a sinless life then you have not repented and thus are still under condemnation.. Flee people who preach such a thing..



We are to endure in Belief in the Message of God and endure in Trusting ( having faith ) that the Atonement of Jesus has secured for us eternal life with God..




True.. But when we get people asking questions like you are asking it's a delight to respond to someone who is genuinely asking questions with a desire to grow in the knowledge of salvation..

All good points🙂

 

[JaumeJ]

Again, do not associate this "mindset" of yours on me...…..is mindset a new doctrine or dogma for the Body of Yeshua? Just do not associate that wit me, it has been done over and over with implying I am under the law which is in effect saying my repetence and faith in Jesus Christ is void……..do not do this to me or anyone else who believe obedience is our due and not some kind of works. Do not do it.

Over the years I have been posting inthe forum, time and time again when obedience has been mentioned immediately soeone or asmall group come back to me saying it is works.

Repeatedly I have begged all to learn from Jesus about the law, and none do it. Instead they quot a lot of what Paul says about our being freee of the curse of the law, and we are, that bein death. No where are we freed from all of the law for we are to love, and we are to follow the laws that constitute love, for they do just that, and they are together built up into love.

The main reason I take it personally from you is because yu felt I needed to be told about your mindset doctrine...I do not. That word will make a good futre brainwashing technique of used enough.

I am saved by the mercy afforded by the grae of God in the Blood of His Holy Passover Lamb, no more and no less. Because I am grateful and all who feel the same we find it an honor to attmept to obey alll the laws that remain, that is to say that Jesus has not yet fulfilled because that is the least we may do to say thank you to God for His Son.

Now if you believe obediene is a mindset, then you will continue in your manner of teaching but our due is our due. A servant must obey His Master.

 

[Adstar]

You have associated "keeping the law" with me because I observe the Seventh Day because it is a gift, not some kind of weekly burden. .

Doubling down i see.. Sad that you cannot just admit that i was not making any personal accusations against you.. I will let others read my posts and they will see i was making no personal judgements against you in regard to sabbath keeping..

But anyway you show that you cannot simpl;y admit you where wrong and we could have moved on in fellowship with all forgiven and forgotten.. But no... Sadly that did not happen..

So be it...

 

[gb9]

Over the years I have been posting inthe forum, time and time again when obedience has been mentioned immediately soeone or asmall group come back to me saying it is works.

Repeatedly I have begged all to learn from Jesus about the law, and none do it. Instead they quot a lot of what Paul says about our being freee of the curse of the law, and we are, that bein death. No where are we freed from all of the law for we are to love, and we are to follow the laws that constitute love, for they do just that, and they are together built up into love.

The main reason I take it personally from you is because yu felt I needed to be told about your mindset doctrine...I do not. That word will make a good futre brainwashing technique of used enough.

I am saved by the mercy afforded by the grae of God in the Blood of His Holy Passover Lamb, no more and no less. Because I am grateful and all who feel the same we find it an honor to attmept to obey alll the laws that remain, that is to say that Jesus has not yet fulfilled because that is the least we may do to say thank you to God for His Son.

Now if you believe obediene is a mindset, then you will continue in your manner of teaching but our due is our due. A servant must obey His Master.

once again , you prove that you do think Paul's letters are authoritative Scripture.

you judeaizers are sickening.

 

[JaumeJ]

I don’t understand how there’s such misunderstanding... Isn’t it basically you believe NT believes are to keep the whole law but not to be saved but by commandment (saved by Jesus) and the other believes that we don’t have to do anything but the “moral law,” or law of Christ (which includes only some of the OT law but not the ceremonial things) but that you’re both trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation?

? Have you understood what I have posted. I am not saved by the law in any manner but I do obey according to the teaching of Jesus Christ…….. How manty times must this be repeated before a few unthinking individuals put those who are grateful with those who are afraid to do anything.

Faith is not lip service.

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Because I am grateful and all who feel the same we find it an honor to attmept to obey alll the laws that remain, that is to say that Jesus has not yet fulfilled because that is the least we may do

Forgive my ignorance, what laws remain that Jesus did not fulfil? My understanding is that He came to fulfil the law (and all righteousness) and did so.... (honest question) thanks🙂

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

? Have you understood what I have posted. I am not saved by the law in any manner but I do obey according to the teaching of Jesus Christ…….. How manty times must this be repeated before a few unthinking individuals put those who are grateful with those who are afraid to do anything.

Faith is not lip service.

That’s what I said that neither of you are trusting in keeping the law for salvation, but you differ as to whether we should keep the ceremonial, old covenant law... Did I say that right this time? Thanks 🙂

 

[Adstar]

All good points🙂

Thanks for your encouragement it is a blessing to me.

I don’t understand how there’s such misunderstanding... Isn’t it basically you believe NT believes are to keep the whole law but not to be saved but by commandment (saved by Jesus) and the other believes that we don’t have to do anything but the “moral law,” or law of Christ (which includes only some of the OT law but not the ceremonial things) but that you’re both trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation?

The problem with the cerimonial Law is that it is impossible these days to keep. DO ALL of the ceremonial law..

Can you take part in the yearly sacrafice of a red bull at the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem?? As stipulated in the OT covenant ??

Nope and the Jews have failed to DO ALL the ceremonial law for the last near 2000 years.. They have been breaking the Law each yeah since 70AD because they are failing to DO ALL that is written in the LAW of the TORAH..

And yes i am trusting 100% in the Atonement of Jesus to save me from the eternal lake of fire..

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

Thanks for your encouragement it is a blessing to me.


The problem with the cerimonial Law is that it is impossible these days to keep. DO ALL of the ceremonial law..

Can you take part in the yearly sacrafice of a red bull at the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem?? As stipulated in the OT covenant ??

Nope and the Jews have failed to DO ALL the ceremonial law for the last near 2000 years.. They have been breaking the Law each yeah since 70AD because they are failing to DO ALL that is written in the LAW of the TORAH..

And yes i am trusting 100% in the Atonement of Jesus to save me from the eternal lake of fire..

But isn’t their argument that the sacrifices and temple ordinances will come back again in the millennium and that we’ll keep the sabbath at that time also so it’s just on pause for now those ceremonial things that we can’t do currently but that there are some we can (not for salvation)? Thanks 🙂

 

[JaumeJ]

That’s what I said that neither of you are trusting in keeping the law for salvation, but you differ as to whether we should keep the ceremonial, old covenant law... Did I say that right this time? Thanks 🙂

I believe we are to obey the law according to the teaching of Jesus Christ, Yeshua. He teaches He has not come to destroy the law and the prophets rather to fulfill them, het He goes on to say the law is in effect while there is a heaven and earth............ Because I learn from Him by His preaching and actions I know this means we are to obey the laws remaining which make up Love with justice, mercy and faith, His words.

If you have reeive love, you know the laws yet in effect for when Jesus teaches He warns anyone teaching against even the leastt of the laws will be least in heaven.

When yuo read the laws individually, you know automatically which do not contain mercy, with are not just , and which we have faith to obey . We know there are no more Temple laws, no more SAcrificial laws, no more Levitical preistly aws, no more tithing laws, no more rituals whatsoever for Jesus makes them fulfilled yet we, the Body members are yet fulfilling those remainig which make up the two graet laws of love............

Apparently this is beyond the scope of many, most, for when it is mentioned the words "under the law" come back to the person repeating Christ's teaching.

You will be hard pressed to faind anyone wh believe in obeying Jesus Christ in this manner who believes He is saved by anything other than the Cross, but it seems to be the panacea for all who have great doubts to the point of baring their onw understanding so they do not need to be obedient.....

I fail always, that is sin, yet I have The Mediator, Jesus, Yeshau Who always argues my case and makes me seen as innocent...........I believe all who truly love Him do also, but so many are so quitck to bring up this nonse of being "under the law" or th "mindset " now rather than listen to the words and teaching of the One they claim to believe our SAvior.. Do not break this up in pieces to replty becaue this is how so many make a shambles of the truth from the Bible also.

 

[JaumeJ]

YOu folks are responding to my posts and the posts of others without reading them. If you are reading them you have no idea of what yu have read.

No one obeys or even attempt to obey all of those ceremonial laws you bring up to confuse others adn you know it.

Where here in this forum is someone saying we shoudl? Do not say I have for that is an untruth, you know, a lie You and your group keep telling each other that others are saying what they are not………...you will never have peace in that manner.

 

[JaumeJ]

Forgive my ignorance, what laws remain that Jesus did not fulfil? My understanding is that He came to fulfil the law (and all righteousness) and did so.... (honest question) thanks🙂

All the laws that make up God's love are being fulfilled by the members of His Body until He returns.

 

[Adstar]

But isn’t their argument that the sacrifices and temple ordinances will come back again in the millennium and that we’ll keep the sabbath at that time also so it’s just on pause for now those ceremonial things that we can’t do currently but that there are some we can (not for salvation)? Thanks 🙂

Well they may.. After the return of Jesus.. Not all of them because Jesus has fulfilled many of the ceremonial law ( which was a foreshadowing of his actual deeds.. Like the passover Lamb sacrafice ceremony.. Jesus is the promised Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.. So that sacrafice / ceremony will not happen..

In prophecy i see one ceremony that will be celebrated during the times after the return of Jesus..

Zechariah 14: KJV
16 "¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. {17} And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

Now i encourage you to read the whole chapter of Zechariah 14.. to get confirming context to this scripture above.. I did not post all of the scripture because well it is a big chunk of scripture and posting too much can demoralize people reading of a computer monitor..

So we can see from the above that ""The LORD of Hosts"" who is Jesus will cause all people to come to Jerusalem to take part in the feast of tabernacles.. So that ceremony will be a requiorment again for the people who live in His millenial Kingdom..

 

[JaumeJ]

I don’t understand how there’s such misunderstanding... Isn’t it basically you believe NT believes are to keep the whole law but not to be saved but by commandment (saved by Jesus) and the other believes that we don’t have to do anything but the “moral law,” or law of Christ (which includes only some of the OT law but not the ceremonial things) but that you’re both trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation?

Still? Forget it, come back to me when you understand what I have posted. YOu must read it first.

 

[gb9]

YOu folks are responding to my posts and the posts of others without reading them. If you are reading them you have no idea of what yu have read.

No one obeys or even attempt to obey all of those ceremonial laws you bring up to confuse others adn you know it.

Where here in this forum is someone saying we shoudl? Do not say I have for that is an untruth, you know, a lie You and your group keep telling each other that others are saying what they are not………...you will never have peace in that manner.

I understand what you write just fine.

when you discredit Paul, and talk about keeping the Law, that tells me all I need to know.

judeaizer. false teacher. full of hot air.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you read Psalm 119, it may help,but I do not know for cetain. Within it you will find our souls keep God's laws……..meanwhile we do our best to obey our father just as children are expected to do in this age..

God bless all who are in Yeshua, Jesus, and all who will come to Him in spirit and truth, amen.

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

If you read Psalm 119, it may help,but I do not know for cetain. Within it you will find our souls keep God's laws……..meanwhile we do our best to obey our father just as children are expected to do in this age..

God bless all who are in Yeshua, Jesus, and all who will come to Him in spirit and truth, amen.

May I ask you (in seriousness as someone leaning) what you say to Peter’s vision about God commanding him to not call anything clean that God has made clean and it was to do with going and hunting food? Was that to do with the gentiles not being unclean but nothing to do with food? (Honest question, looking for edification) thanks🙂

 

[Adstar]

May I ask you (in seriousness as someone leaning) what you say to Peter’s vision about God commanding him to not call anything clean that God has made clean and it was to do with going and hunting food? Was that to do with the gentiles not being unclean but nothing to do with food? (Honest question, looking for edification) thanks🙂

I believe the dream was symbolic of the gentiles whom jews considered to be unclean.. If you read the surounding scripture you will no doubt see this..

But i will add more scripture to show you that it is not what goes into a persons mouth that defiles them, but what comes out of a persons mouth, this is what defiles them..

Matthew 15: KJV
10 "¶ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: {11} Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Jesus explained the above saying to His apostles soon after saying it::

Matthew 15: KJV
15 "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. {16} And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? {17} Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? {18} But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. {19} For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"

 

[thywordisalampuntomyfeet]

I believe the dream was symbolic of the gentiles whom jews considered to be unclean.. If you read the surounding scripture you will no doubt see this..

But i will add more scripture to show you that it is not what goes into a persons mouth that defiles them, but what comes out of a persons mouth, this is what defiles them..

Matthew 15: KJV
10 "¶ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: {11} Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man."

Jesus explained the above saying to His apostles soon after saying it::

Matthew 15: KJV
15 "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. {16} And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? {17} Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? {18} But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. {19} For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"

But why was his vision God telling him to go and hunt and Peter saying that no unclean thing has ever entered his mouth? I know he was going to visit the gentles thereafter but his vision talks about food in his mouth... Also someone who keeps God’s OT dietary laws (not for salvation) would say that those verses were in answer to the Pharasies questioning Jesus about hand washing (I think)...? Thanks🙂

 

[Adstar]

But why was his vision God telling him to go and hunt and Peter saying that no unclean thing has ever entered his mouth? I know he was going to visit the gentle thereafter but his vision talks about food in his mouth... Aslo someone who keeps God’s OT dietary laws (not for salvation) would say that those verses were in answer to the Pharasies questioning Jesus about hand washing (I think)...? Thanks🙂

While Peter was dreaming He was thinking it was about actual food and eating unclean beasts.. After He woke up and the knock on the door came He quickly came to know that the dream was symbolic of the gentiles.

As for hand-washing i concede that Jesus did talk about that in relation to the verse.. But still it was part of the Law to wash hands before eating.. The general principle remain the same though .. In regards to morality what one eats does not make one an immoral sinner or make one a righteous person.. The mindset of the Works salvation Pharisees at the time did consider keeping / doing the law is what made them righteous before the LORD.. And that is a common belief even to this day among Works salvation believers.