Praying in Tongues

[7seasrekeyed]

No way does anyone know what God's will is when a person is praying for a future event, like salvation for someone, or a healing from something, and etc.

What we might pray for the grace to accept God's will

oh but you are wrong as are most cessationists

the Bible even clearly shows earnest prayer can move the hand of God

you have not experienced that I guess but I certainly have

God is real and He really does speak to and answer His children but if you do not believe that, then that is the result you will get

He speaks first by His word but also in our spirits by His Spirit

God's main purpose is that we be conformed to the image of His Son. that is His will

 

[Dino246]

The Holy Spirit put his words on the mouth men as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. They understood each other as in a two way conversation. In the same way Christ put his words on the mouth of Balaam's Ass to restrain the madness of that false prophet as a false apostle..

Scripture says nothing about a two-way conversation empowered by the Holy Spirit in Acts 2. You're going above what is written.

Like every spiritual gift its two fold. It blessed the speaker as it gives the person the utterance of the Holy Spirit as well as the one he gives ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. …..No private interpretations of men..

You write this and yet claim that the one who speaks in tongues is engaging in sinful self-edification. You're inconsistent.

Your understanding of "private interpretations" is not based on Scripture and is therefore irrelevant.

Every time the gift worked in man it does not say for instance Philip who spoke Hebrew could understand the language of the Ethiopian, Amharic and vice versa. Scripture does not say they were bi-lingual
.
Acts 8:29-31 King James Version (KJV)Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him..

Scripture says nothing about Amharic, or that Philip understood it. You're going above what is written.

Another example it does not give us the two interpretations (Hebrew and Italian) as a conversation when Peter could not understand the vision And the Italian was given the gift so that he could convey the message in Hebrew to have a conversation with each other in order edify the church as when two or three gather together according to the authority of prophecy .

Acts 10:1-3 King James Version (KJV)There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

Scripture says nothing about Cornelius speaking in Italian. You're going above what is written.

Your position is based on things that are not written in Scripture. Therefore it is indefensible.

 

[Dino246]

It's a mystery to me how one can pray FOR something without KNOWING God's will in the petition.

So, going by this statement, you don't pray for anything at all unless you know God's will for that situation.

Tell me... how do you know God's will in every situation that concerns you? Do you pray for healing for others? Are you certain that it is God's will to heal them? It isn't always. Do you pray for people's salvation? No... I almost forgot; you're a Calvinist.

Your position is flawed. Either you actually believe that God does tell you what His will is in each situation, and so you believe that He communicates outside of Scripture and therefore can't truly be a cessationist, or you don't pray unless it is regarding issues about which God's will is explicitly stated in Scripture, and therefore you aren't following Scripture which tells you to pray without ceasing (among other instructions and principles).

 

[wolfwint]

I don't teach that and I don't see it in scripture and I have not found it to be so

so what's your beef here?

nothing in your observance contradicts what I have posted

maybe get over it. the world is not going to change because you choose to dicker about it and folks who do pray/sing/prophesy in tongues are not going to stop and God will still be glorified in spite of all the opposition coming from believers who should actually know better

and to make it clear, yes there is abuse of the gifts just like there is abuse in everything else. there will always be those who purport to be what they are not and they indicate their false calling by the very abuse they exhibit. some have been called and sadly have gone off the deep end

none of that negates the truth. some people think they are Jesus. so?

So you agree, that not all believers get/ got the gift of speaking in tongues?

 

[wolfwint]

Then I have to wonder why Paul couldn't heal him with his gift.

I suppose because the main purpose for healing in the gospels and in acts was to proof that Jesus is the son of God. (John 20, 29-30).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

So you agree, that not all believers get/ got the gift of speaking in tongues?

that's what I said.

however Paul also says not to forbid that gift

I would add that a person is unlikely to receive any gift if they are a cessationist just as an unsaved person will not receive salvation if they reject God's gift for salvation

 

[RickyZ]

It's a mystery to me how one can pray FOR something without KNOWING God's will in the petition.
Prayer should be the ACTS of our pleas.
A - adoration of His majesty
C - contrition - confession, admitting wrong thought, word or deed. And we all have those
T - thanksgiveing - be thankful for everything, each day brings at least a small blessing in some way
S - supplication - ask for increase of spiritual things like understanding, discernment, hospitality etc

And pray continually........each time we trip, each time we need to extend grace, each time we forget to extend grace

Funny you use the word, because speaking mysteries is one of the very things God promised.

 

[RickyZ]

Yeah yeah yeah

That's all ya got?

How about "gee maybe that's something to consider"

'Cause truth is only available to those who are willing to reconsider.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I suppose because the main purpose for healing in the gospels and in acts was to proof that Jesus is the son of God. (John 20, 29-30).

yes, a sign to the Jews. But on the occasion Paul could not heal, it shows the sign gifts were ceasiing

 

[Dino246]

yes, a sign to the Jews. But on the occasion Paul could not heal, it shows the sign gifts were ceasiing

When you can demonstrate from Scripture that healing "shall cease" then your point might be valid.

 

[garee]

Scripture says nothing about a two-way conversation empowered by the Holy Spirit in Acts 2. You're going above what is written.

If they "heard" each other and all "spoke" in a different language, the word of God spoken worked in both .

All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their "own language" being spoken.Acts 2:4-6

If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the "speaker", and the "speaker" is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. 1 Corinthians 14-11-12

You write this and yet claim that the one who speaks in tongues is engaging in sinful self-edification. You're inconsistent.

The one speaking the word of God, prophecy edifies God the speaker. Not Balaam's Ass the one he put his words in its mouth. God is not served by the private interpretations of men as the things of men. We are warned about the things of men and how it makes the word of God without effect.

Your understanding of "private interpretations" is not based on Scripture and is therefore irrelevant.

Sure all of scripture or prophecy is of God's interpretation .He warns us of those who say we need a man to teach us. The MO of the antichrists.

2 Peter 1:19-21 King James Version (KJV) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of "any private interpretation".For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Scripture says nothing about Amharic, or that Philip understood it. You're going above what is written.

Scripture says nothing about Cornelius speaking in Italian. You're going above what is written.

It does not say that verbatim but there is more support to believe that then believing men spoke into the air and needed someone to interpret sounds that have no meaning to confirm something

Offering the gospel is having a conversation with God. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

and still no response from mr garee who kept saying I never answered his question after I posted my lengthy and carefully thought out response THREE times in direct answer to his exact question with other supporting scriptures and then included an excellent teaching on tongues (and the gifts in general) with link

so garee, it occurs to me you have an agenda

so I will leave you to that agenda and your disingenuous demands

 

[garee]

and still no response from mr garee who kept saying I never answered his question after I posted my lengthy and carefully thought out response THREE times in direct answer to his exact question with other supporting scriptures and then included an excellent teaching on tongues (and the gifts in general) with link

so garee, it occurs to me you have an agenda

so I will leave you to that agenda and your disingenuous demands

I have a opinion my goal is to hear God aright.

I have searched for that direct answer. Can you post the 3 different numbers...? your last is # 312

 

[garee]

The sign confirms those who do hear the word of God prophecy spoken in other languages other that henbrew alone

 

[Dino246]

If they "heard" each other and all "spoke" in a different language, the word of God spoken worked in both .

A two-way conversation is where both are speaking and both are hearing. That isn't what was happening in Acts 2.

The one speaking the word of God, prophecy edifies God the speaker.

1 Corinthians 14:2 says, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...." The speaker of the message in tongues is edified. Scripture doesn't say that God is edified when someone speaks in tongues.

Sure all of scripture or prophecy is of God's interpretation .He warns us of those who say we need a man to teach us. The MO of the antichrists.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of "any private interpretation".

This passage says that the SOURCE of the prophetic message is God, not humans. The verse says NOTHING about humans interpreting the word of God so that they may understand it.

It does not say that verbatim but there is more support to believe that then believing men spoke into the air and needed someone to interpret sounds that have no meaning to confirm something

Again, you are using a straw man fallacy. Kindly STOP misrepresenting the views of others.

You claimed that Cornelius spoke Italian, yet there is no statement to that effect in Scripture. You claimed that the Ethiopian spoke Amharic, yet there is no statement to that effect in Scripture. You are inventing things to suit your position, going above what is written, and adding to the word of God.

 

[Dino246]

The sign confirms those who do hear the word of God prophecy spoken in other languages other that henbrew alone

Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?

 

[garee]

Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?

Yes a gift those those who belive prophecy the word of God. And a sign against those who do not.

 

[obedienttogod]

yes, a sign to the Jews. But on the occasion Paul could not heal, it shows the sign gifts were ceasiing

No, it shows that on occasion that Paul lacked faith. A true act of faith will result in God changing the outcome that was already intended. The reason we see 13 letters written by Paul was throughout his ministry he was a student being taught by God. By the time we read Hebrews, you could see the difference in growth in his walk from his earlier writings.

***to note***
Some believe Hebrews is an actual sermon preached by Paul and then later on eloquently written by Luke. I tend to sway to almost being persuaded by this assumption by relating Paul's actual letters to how properly the Book of Hebrews is written.

Of course, the Catholic church believe someone from the second century wrote it. And by the time the Council chose which Books to add to the Canon, Hebrews was included.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

No, it shows that on occasion that Paul lacked faith. A true act of faith will result in God changing the outcome that was already intended. The reason we see 13 letters written by Paul was throughout his ministry he was a student being taught by God. By the time we read Hebrews, you could see the difference in growth in his walk from his earlier writings.

***to note***
Some believe Hebrews is an actual sermon preached by Paul and then later on eloquently written by Luke. I tend to sway to almost being persuaded by this assumption by relating Paul's actual letters to how properly the Book of Hebrews is written.

Of course, the Catholic church believe someone from the second century wrote it. And by the time the Council chose which Books to add to the Canon, Hebrews was included.

Hebews was accepted as scripture to be included in the canon because it had already been so widely accepted by the Jewish believers.
The Council of Carthage finalized the bible that we have today.

The criteria for canonizing was the each book had to be written by an apostle or under the auspices of an apostle. The exception was Hebrews, not included in earlier bibles but kept as canon by Carthage.

Roman Catholcism became a separate belief system under Constantine, with many additions over the centuies of strange doctrine, ie: Mary worship, Celebate priesthood, indulgences, praying for the dead and many more. Roman Catholocism became known as outside of sound doctrine early on with the Council of Trent decisions, protests by early theologians against their heresies led them to be called Protestants by the RCC.

 

[stonesoffire]

The gift of tongues is not given to all. That's the same as prophecy....not all have this gift either.

But, our prayer language is the language of our Spirit. Available to all but as one has said here already....if you don't believe it....unbelief....you probably wont' receive it. Some however have while magnifying the Lord through their understanding in their native language....it flows then.