Not only are we not under the law, we should not try to abide by it.
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Gal 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
And I think this makes something clear - obeying Jesus is just like obeying the 613 mitzvot. We have to make a conscious decision to obey Jesus. We have to consciously decide to walk in love, repentance and good works.
Jesus said,
"When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love."
He didn't say, "when you remain in my love, you obey my commandments". He said it the other way around. When we obey his commandments, we remain in his love.
And just blindly thinking that we automatically do Jesus' commandments just because we believe in him is a bit presumptuous, considering our soul is at stake.
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What is the testimony that God, the Father has given of His Son (1 John 5:11)? Why then, would you profess that your soul, our souls, are at stake? Is God a liar?
You are correct that we are to consciously decide to walk in love, repentance, and good works, but this is a matter of surrender. Salvation is another matter, entirely void of self-righteousness. What you speak of is our walk, a lifestyle that chooses to use our members as instruments of righteousness unto God (Romans 6:13). This does not grant salvation, as I am sure you are aware. It is Christ and Him crucified that has granted us justification, and redemption. Yes, salvation.
You are correct that we are to consciously decide to walk in love, repentance, and good works, but this is a matter of surrender. Salvation is another matter, entirely void of self-righteousness. What you speak of is our walk, a lifestyle that chooses to use our members as instruments of righteousness unto God (Romans 6:13). This does not grant salvation, as I am sure you are aware. It is Christ and Him crucified that has granted us justification, and redemption. Yes, salvation.
Philippians 2:12- Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
a. Christians are indeed called to obey
b. We work out (not for) our salvation.
c. But it is God who is working in us that causes us to both want to and to be able to obey Him.
So by all means, obey God. But don't do it in your own strength (for your strength will fail you), and you're not working for you salvation, you're working out your salvation, ie allowing what God has worked in you and works in you to have it's way with you both internally and externally. (work out what God has worked in, the internal grace manifests itself externally)
a. Christians are indeed called to obey
b. We work out (not for) our salvation.
c. But it is God who is working in us that causes us to both want to and to be able to obey Him.
So by all means, obey God. But don't do it in your own strength (for your strength will fail you), and you're not working for you salvation, you're working out your salvation, ie allowing what God has worked in you and works in you to have it's way with you both internally and externally. (work out what God has worked in, the internal grace manifests itself externally)
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But this is love, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not burdensome. (1 John 5:3)
Love is not a chore. It's like the old story of the boy who had a crippled brother and had to carry him around. Someone told him "oh, what a burden for you to bear", and he answered "he's not a burden, he's my brother". If anything makes obedience and good works, good fruit natural, it is love. But that love does not come naturally, ie it does not originate with us. It is the fruit of the Spirit and the manifestation of the Spirit.
Love is not a chore. It's like the old story of the boy who had a crippled brother and had to carry him around. Someone told him "oh, what a burden for you to bear", and he answered "he's not a burden, he's my brother". If anything makes obedience and good works, good fruit natural, it is love. But that love does not come naturally, ie it does not originate with us. It is the fruit of the Spirit and the manifestation of the Spirit.
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Hey! Adam...
Do you really not keep the Law? Does that mean I should expect you to lie? Because the Law commands us not to bear false witness. How about murder or adultery? Where is the line between not abiding by the Law and sin in the New Covenant? To answer my own question, the Spirit uses our devotion time in the scripture to fulfill the New Covenant promise by putting the Lord's Laws and Commandments into our hearts and minds. So that our conscience becomes a tool of the Holy Spirit as he transforms us into the image of Christ, who kept the letter of the Law perfectly by keeping the Spirit of the Law perfectly. So that he not only didn't kill, but by not hating his brethren, he wasn't being a murderer and by not lusting, he wasn't committing adultery in his heart: the standard given to us to use to measure what is sin under the New Covenant, which comes without the curse of death for disobedience since Jesus was made to bear that curse for us.
Do I keep the Law? I strive to go past the letter of the law and obey the Spirit of the Law by not only not committing adultery, but by not lusting either. The letter of the Law says not to kill, but the Spirit of the Law, which is what the Holy Spirit is putting into my heart and mind so that hating my brother becomes the same as murder to me. My righteousness and justification has been imputed to me by my faith in Jesus, I strive for obedience because I love the Lord and desire to walk in the Spirit just as he desires for me to do.
PTL! : )
Do you really not keep the Law? Does that mean I should expect you to lie? Because the Law commands us not to bear false witness. How about murder or adultery? Where is the line between not abiding by the Law and sin in the New Covenant? To answer my own question, the Spirit uses our devotion time in the scripture to fulfill the New Covenant promise by putting the Lord's Laws and Commandments into our hearts and minds. So that our conscience becomes a tool of the Holy Spirit as he transforms us into the image of Christ, who kept the letter of the Law perfectly by keeping the Spirit of the Law perfectly. So that he not only didn't kill, but by not hating his brethren, he wasn't being a murderer and by not lusting, he wasn't committing adultery in his heart: the standard given to us to use to measure what is sin under the New Covenant, which comes without the curse of death for disobedience since Jesus was made to bear that curse for us.
Do I keep the Law? I strive to go past the letter of the law and obey the Spirit of the Law by not only not committing adultery, but by not lusting either. The letter of the Law says not to kill, but the Spirit of the Law, which is what the Holy Spirit is putting into my heart and mind so that hating my brother becomes the same as murder to me. My righteousness and justification has been imputed to me by my faith in Jesus, I strive for obedience because I love the Lord and desire to walk in the Spirit just as he desires for me to do.
PTL! : )
What you're really asking is
"How can you be a moral person without keeping the law?"
You have of course answered your own question.
But also remember this the next time you question if morals are derived from the law:
"The law reveals sin but cannot fix it"
Romans 3:20
"The purpose of the law was to increase sin"
Romans 5:20
"The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy"
Romans 7:7-12
"The law justifies nobody"
Galatians 2:16
"The law is only good if used in the right context"
1 Timothy 1:8 (see next verse for the context)
"It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous"
1 Timothy 1:9-10
"How can you be a moral person without keeping the law?"
You have of course answered your own question.
But also remember this the next time you question if morals are derived from the law:
"The law reveals sin but cannot fix it"
Romans 3:20
"The purpose of the law was to increase sin"
Romans 5:20
"The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy"
Romans 7:7-12
"The law justifies nobody"
Galatians 2:16
"The law is only good if used in the right context"
1 Timothy 1:8 (see next verse for the context)
"It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous"
1 Timothy 1:9-10
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No. It doesn't make you more righteous, it places you under a curse.
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, Everyone who does not do everything written in the book of the law is cursed." (Galatians 3:10)
And it makes you a fool.
"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Galatians 3:3)
"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, Everyone who does not do everything written in the book of the law is cursed." (Galatians 3:10)
And it makes you a fool.
"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Galatians 3:3)
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Breaking the law over and over doesn't make you more righteous. The law only shows that you CAN'T keep it.
Read Matthew 5. Its abundantly obvious.
Romans 4:4-8
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Would you rather work for your own Righteousness or have God Impute His Righteousness to you?
You can't have both. You can't have Gods Imputed Righteousness plus your dirty rags. You either get your dirty rags or Gods Imputed Righteousness.
You are free to work for your own Righteousness. Just don't be under the delusion that it will make you "more" righteous than what God Imputes to us.
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Read Matthew 5. Its abundantly obvious.
Romans 4:4-8
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Would you rather work for your own Righteousness or have God Impute His Righteousness to you?
You can't have both. You can't have Gods Imputed Righteousness plus your dirty rags. You either get your dirty rags or Gods Imputed Righteousness.
You are free to work for your own Righteousness. Just don't be under the delusion that it will make you "more" righteous than what God Imputes to us.
Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
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i think it's a mistake to say the Torah = Christ's commandments.
i think it's also a mistake to take the decalogue out of the Law and say it is somehow separate, or to arbitrarily divide the Law into 2 or 3 groups and say these sections are 'Christ's commands' and these aren't.
Christ Himself gave specific commands. i think the most rational understanding of what Jesus means when He says "My commands" is the commands He Himself literally gave.
i think it's also a mistake to take the decalogue out of the Law and say it is somehow separate, or to arbitrarily divide the Law into 2 or 3 groups and say these sections are 'Christ's commands' and these aren't.
Christ Himself gave specific commands. i think the most rational understanding of what Jesus means when He says "My commands" is the commands He Himself literally gave.
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ex. how about since He says keep my commands in John 15, the first place we look for what commands He is talking about should be John 15?
As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Now remain in My love. If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commands and remain in His love. I have told you this so that My joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
(John 15:9-12)
(John 15:9-12)
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if Christ's righteousness is ascribed to us by faith, and His righteousness is infinite in perfection, how in the world can anyone who has had His righteousness imputed to Him become more righteous than infinity?
i seek to do what is right in my life in the same way that when i buy a pair of shoes i look for one that fits.
no shoe makes my feet more perfect, but a shoe that's too big gives me blisters and a shoe that's too small gives me cramps. both impair my ability to walk. it's not about improving my feet; it's about preventing impediments to what is, without any shoe at all, already a completely adequate appendage.
i seek to do what is right in my life in the same way that when i buy a pair of shoes i look for one that fits.
no shoe makes my feet more perfect, but a shoe that's too big gives me blisters and a shoe that's too small gives me cramps. both impair my ability to walk. it's not about improving my feet; it's about preventing impediments to what is, without any shoe at all, already a completely adequate appendage.
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Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
That seems pretty obvious.
It doesn't allude to "extra" righteousness that comes from the law.
It really alludes to NO righteousness available through the Law and therefore Christ and His Death and Resurrection for Us.
That seems pretty obvious.
It doesn't allude to "extra" righteousness that comes from the law.
It really alludes to NO righteousness available through the Law and therefore Christ and His Death and Resurrection for Us.
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