Law keeping?

[TMS]

and just to be clear- I have nothing against the Old Testament. I am currently reading through it now.

it is mostly about Israel.

the N.T. for the world.

Israel was instructed not to make any agreements with the nations around.

Jesus SENT the disciples into the nations with the Gospel.

understand that God wanted the nations around to see the truth, Israel was to witness to them, be a light to them, but not be corrupted by them. Jesus was to come to us through this nation, and God needed to preserve a line for this seed to come. Once the seed had come there purpose had finished. God didn't need to preserve them anymore.

 

[Tim416]

understand that God wanted the nations around to see the truth, Israel was to witness to them, be a light to them, but not be corrupted by them. Jesus was to come to us through this nation, and God needed to preserve a line for this seed to come. Once the seed had come there purpose had finished. God didn't need to preserve them anymore.

And yet the nation of Israel exists now

 

[TMS]

And yet the nation of Israel exists now

like many other nations, God loves us all.

 

[Blik]

and just to be clear- I have nothing against the Old Testament. I am currently reading through it now.

it is mostly about Israel.

the N.T. for the world.

Israel was instructed not to make any agreements with the nations around.

Jesus SENT the disciples into the nations with the Gospel.

It would be so nice when you get to know scripture. Use a concordance and look up the words foreigner and stranger. You will find that over and over God told us He was speaking to everyone, not just Hebrews.

Before Christ all nations had idols for Gods. After Christ that was not so. Scripture instructed to nave nothing to do with those who reject God as we are instructed today.

If we know God and belong to Him we are Israel. Today there is no Jew and gentile, we are all children of God. What is or was true for the Hebrew is and was true for the gentile. Truth does not depend on race.

 

[Deade]

understand that God wanted the nations around to see the truth, Israel was to witness to them, be a light to them, but not be corrupted by them. Jesus was to come to us through this nation, and God needed to preserve a line for this seed to come. Once the seed had come there purpose had finished. God didn't need to preserve them anymore.

Do not propose that God is done with Israel. God made many promises to patriarchs He still plans to fulfill. Do not confuse Judah with Israel. Know that those that came back to Palestine in 1948 should be called Judah. There is even some of doubt they are real Jews. So many lost records and assimilated peoples pressing to be Jews, no one is sure anymore. Even with all the confusion in the world, God is not confused. Even the promise that the scepter shall not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes (Gen. 49:10). Which seems not to be the case. Or is it?

 

[gb9]

It would be so nice when you get to know scripture. Use a concordance and look up the words foreigner and stranger. You will find that over and over God told us He was speaking to everyone, not just Hebrews.

Before Christ all nations had idols for Gods. After Christ that was not so. Scripture instructed to nave nothing to do with those who reject God as we are instructed today.

If we know God and belong to Him we are Israel. Today there is no Jew and gentile, we are all children of God. What is or was true for the Hebrew is and was true for the gentile. Truth does not depend on race.

no, sorry, false premise. Paul went through great lengths and suffering to prove that judeaism and being a Christ follower are NOT the same thing.

our salvation is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God,

you judeaizers can try to convince us that we have to keep the Law of Moses all you want, but is all a load of garbage.

you all spit on Paul, handpicked by Jesus to deliver the Gospel to the gentiles, without the Law of Moses.

every word Paul wrote is Scripture, to be held up as all the rest of the Bible is.


even though you Judeazers do not think so.

so, when Paul says the Law could not save , because it was week, I believe Him. ]
you all spit on this and say NO, keep the Law keep the Sabbath .

shameful. disrespectful to a man who suffered so much for Christ, who tied so hard to proved we are NOT saved by keeping the Law.

 

[CharliRenee]

I honestly believe that the works and grace debate is a heart matter. He can discern our motives and mindsets, even when we ourselves can not.

I believe He wants us so fired up for loving Him and others, with sincerity, that everything about us, all our thoughts, words, emotions, actions and reactions shine His light.

Our salvation is so much more than just about ourselves, or the ever after. He wants to use us for His purposes. Our salvation isn't about us, it is about our Savior.

 

[Tim416]

like many other nations, God loves us all.

I thought you were a sola scripture guy:

The days are coming,’ declares the Lord,

‘when the reaper will be overtaken by the ploughman
and the planter by the one treading grapes.
New wine will drip from the mountains
and flow from all the hills,
14 and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[f]
‘They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,’
says the Lord your God.
Amos9:13-15

 

[Tim416]

Do not propose that God is done with Israel. God made many promises to patriarchs He still plans to fulfill. Do not confuse Judah with Israel. Know that those that came back to Palestine in 1948 should be called Judah. There is even some of doubt they are real Jews. So many lost records and assimilated peoples pressing to be Jews, no one is sure anymore. Even with all the confusion in the world, God is not confused. Even the promise that the scepter shall not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes (Gen. 49:10). Which seems not to be the case. Or is it?

And yet, despite all the prophecies, many seem not to see it was biblical prophecy fulfilled in 1948 with much more to come

 

[seed_time_harvest]

For those who follow the idea of law keeping, what parts of the law do you keep?

They probably say that they can’t keep It perfectly but they should try to do their part and help GOD.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

There is nothing wrong with obeying the law according to our new ly formed hearts, for the law is written there.

What would be wrong Is to not obey the law perfectly and think that because the person tried to obey the law that GOD honors trying to be perfect.

 

[JaumeJ]

What would be wrong Is to not obey the law perfectly and think that because the person tried to obey the law that GOD honors trying to be perfect.

This is an oblique approach to calling the obedient slaves to the law.

Obeying God, our Father, is our due, not some elective subject as taking social sciences.

 

[NayborBear]

no, sorry, false premise. Paul went through great lengths and suffering to prove that judeaism and being a Christ follower are NOT the same thing.

our salvation is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God,

you judeaizers can try to convince us that we have to keep the Law of Moses all you want, but is all a load of garbage.

you all spit on Paul, handpicked by Jesus to deliver the Gospel to the gentiles, without the Law of Moses.

every word Paul wrote is Scripture, to be held up as all the rest of the Bible is.


even though you Judeazers do not think so.

so, when Paul says the Law could not save , because it was week, I believe Him. ]
you all spit on this and say NO, keep the Law keep the Sabbath .

shameful. disrespectful to a man who suffered so much for Christ, who tied so hard to proved we are NOT saved by keeping the Law.

"no, sorry, false premise. Paul went through great lengths and suffering to prove that judeaism and being a Christ follower are NOT the same thing."

Oh! Really?

Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
4 That the Righteousness (it may be more helpful here to use "SPIRIT") "OF THE LAW" be fulfilled IN us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
11 But IF the SPIRIT of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead DWELL in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken (make alive) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Is Paul speaking of Jesus HERE?

This is a "leading the horse to water" teaching that Paul strove so HARD in trying to "pass on" in his letters! Time after TIME! And, time after time? Paul couldn't love, teach, rebuke, advise, counsel, exhort, enough in getting them in "drinking!"
Yet, in your "favor?" The Jews of the "Old Covenant", are NOT "blameless" AT ALL, in this "falling away!"

Inasmuch as the "counsel" that was in Jerusalem, when Paul stated, he was "told/led" to "Preach the Gospel" TO the gentiles? But, not preach regarding "CIRCUMCISION?" (of the which, we should know the "Spirit" "of the LAW", in regards TO circumcision, is OF the HEART! NOT, "of the flesh.") To which, the consensus of the council in Jerusalem, was that Preaching Christ, and the Ressurection, should be taught, and upheld! And, that "in THEIR eyes" was "enough" of a burden upon them.

NOW! some 2,000+ YEARS later? These "Churches of the gentiles", or, as I like to refer them as Churches of stone, or "The church of the Paulene Epistles", is NO CLOSER, in "drinking the water", then they were when the Gospel FIRST went out to the gentiles!
But? That's OK! The "Preservation of the saints" are good and righteous efforts!

BUT? When these same people, view verse 11, as "works=salvation?" Or, as (even the) "Transgressing" OF "the COUNCIL that was in Jerusalem?" AS wrong?

THIS, is QUITE a "tell!" Which indicates they have NO CLUE as to what the "fulness of the gentiles even MEANS", let alone to "where we ARE", in regards to "these last days!"

To be clear however! I am not condemning those who are "in Christ", nor would I!
But, the readings of post after post, in thread after thread, rebukings from those who believe.....well? Jesus says it better....

Matthew 15
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 23
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

In conclusion? If you can't "feel" this same "sorrow" within today's churches, that God "felt" when "Crying WITH Jeremiah, so to speak?
Jeremiah 4
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish (silly) children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Then, you really have none "idea" what Paul was trying to "pass on", in Romans 8!

So? WHO is REALLY "spitting on Paul?" Or the Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead?

 

[gb9]

"no, sorry, false premise. Paul went through great lengths and suffering to prove that judeaism and being a Christ follower are NOT the same thing."

Oh! Really?

Romans 8
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
4 That the Righteousness (it may be more helpful here to use "SPIRIT") "OF THE LAW" be fulfilled IN us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
11 But IF the SPIRIT of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead DWELL in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken (make alive) your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Is Paul speaking of Jesus HERE?

This is a "leading the horse to water" teaching that Paul strove so HARD in trying to "pass on" in his letters! Time after TIME! And, time after time? Paul couldn't love, teach, rebuke, advise, counsel, exhort, enough in getting them in "drinking!"
Yet, in your "favor?" The Jews of the "Old Covenant", are NOT "blameless" AT ALL, in this "falling away!"

Inasmuch as the "counsel" that was in Jerusalem, when Paul stated, he was "told/led" to "Preach the Gospel" TO the gentiles? But, not preach regarding "CIRCUMCISION?" (of the which, we should know the "Spirit" "of the LAW", in regards TO circumcision, is OF the HEART! NOT, "of the flesh.") To which, the consensus of the council in Jerusalem, was that Preaching Christ, and the Ressurection, should be taught, and upheld! And, that "in THEIR eyes" was "enough" of a burden upon them.

NOW! some 2,000+ YEARS later? These "Churches of the gentiles", or, as I like to refer them as Churches of stone, or "The church of the Paulene Epistles", is NO CLOSER, in "drinking the water", then they were when the Gospel FIRST went out to the gentiles!
But? That's OK! The "Preservation of the saints" are good and righteous efforts!

BUT? When these same people, view verse 11, as "works=salvation?" Or, as (even the) "Transgressing" OF "the COUNCIL that was in Jerusalem?" AS wrong?

THIS, is QUITE a "tell!" Which indicates they have NO CLUE as to what the "fulness of the gentiles even MEANS", let alone to "where we ARE", in regards to "these last days!"

To be clear however! I am not condemning those who are "in Christ", nor would I!
But, the readings of post after post, in thread after thread, rebukings from those who believe.....well? Jesus says it better....

Matthew 15
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 23
4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

In conclusion? If you can't "feel" this same "sorrow" within today's churches, that God "felt" when "Crying WITH Jeremiah, so to speak?
Jeremiah 4
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish (silly) children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Then, you really have none "idea" what Paul was trying to "pass on", in Romans 8!

So? WHO is REALLY "spitting on Paul?" Or the Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead?

well, since Romans 2 comes before Romans 8, and since in Romans 2, Paul clearly states " gentiles do not have the Law ", and since Paul never taught them Sabbath in any of His letters, then how do we gentiles have to keep commands we were never given.

and, as I have said, the Law was a COVENANT between God and Israel , and since both sides have to enter into a covenant for it to be binding, then the Law was never binding on the gentiles .

might want to study what a covenant is, then you might understand what I am saying.

 

[Blik]

no, sorry, false premise. Paul went through great lengths and suffering to prove that judeaism and being a Christ follower are NOT the same thing.

our salvation is not of ourselves, it is a gift of God,

you judeaizers can try to convince us that we have to keep the Law of Moses all you want, but is all a load of garbage.

you all spit on Paul, handpicked by Jesus to deliver the Gospel to the gentiles, without the Law of Moses.

every word Paul wrote is Scripture, to be held up as all the rest of the Bible is.


even though you Judeazers do not think so.

so, when Paul says the Law could not save , because it was week, I believe Him. ]
you all spit on this and say NO, keep the Law keep the Sabbath .

shameful. disrespectful to a man who suffered so much for Christ, who tied so hard to proved we are NOT saved by keeping the Law.

I think you better read Paul, not here and there but study him. He was what you would label a Judaizer. for Paul was a Pharisee rabbi, Paul honored the feasts. Paul graduated an honor student of the best school for rabbis there was at the time, Paul was a Jew proud of his heritage. Paul had a thorough knowledge of OT and quoted it often, he used it as proof texts for what he taught.

Paul taught that obedience to fleshly rites was not law obedience, but Paul did not teach lawlessness.

 

[NayborBear]

well, since Romans 2 comes before Romans 8, and since in Romans 2, Paul clearly states " gentiles do not have the Law ", and since Paul never taught them Sabbath in any of His letters, then how do we gentiles have to keep commands we were never given.

and, as I have said, the Law was a COVENANT between God and Israel , and since both sides have to enter into a covenant for it to be binding, then the Law was never binding on the gentiles .

might want to study what a covenant is, then you might understand what I am saying.

Depends on who's "words" you treasure most! Paul's? Or Christ's!

Paul's words and teachings are, or have been rendered, by "traditions" of man....EXTREMELY easy in the following of!
Christ's words and teachings are a mite more difficult!

Follow Paul? Follow Christ!

The "choice?".....Is yours!

 

[gb9]

I think you better read Paul, not here and there but study him. He was what you would label a Judaizer. for Paul was a Pharisee rabbi, Paul honored the feasts. Paul graduated an honor student of the best school for rabbis there was at the time, Paul was a Jew proud of his heritage. Paul had a thorough knowledge of OT and quoted it often, he used it as proof texts for what he taught.

Paul taught that obedience to fleshly rites was not law obedience, but Paul did not teach lawlessness.

Paul referred to " the ministry of death, written on stones " . recon what he was referring to? what was written in stone?

and, yes, Paul was a jew, who did keep the festivals, etc.. but never commanded anyone to do so in any of His letters. never Sabbath either. so, since the gentiles did not have the Law, Paul did not teach them to keep the Sabbath, how in the world can you or anyone say that gentiles have to keep the Law??

and Paul also stated that the letter ( the literal ) kills, but the Sprit give life.

oh, and I do not like to say this, it sounds like boasting, and we are told not to, --- I have read the Bible al the through 17-18 times ( lost count).


so, please stop saying I need to study, I know what the Bible says, I know what it does not say.

 

[Blik]

well, since Romans 2 comes before Romans 8, and since in Romans 2, Paul clearly states " gentiles do not have the Law ", and since Paul never taught them Sabbath in any of His letters, then how do we gentiles have to keep commands we were never given.

and, as I have said, the Law was a COVENANT between God and Israel , and since both sides have to enter into a covenant for it to be binding, then the Law was never binding on the gentiles .

might want to study what a covenant is, then you might understand what I am saying.

You personally were never given the Sabbath as a benefit to you because you deny God the Father, saying God only created the world Jews. You deny the world for yourself.

A covenant tells of a relationship. The covenant given on Mt Sinai told of the results to us of what the law does, promising us that it brings blessings as we obey and curses as we disobey. We know this is true, as our prison system today shows us about curses and the track record of the Jews who try to obey shows us blessings. That covenant was not, as you have said, cancelled. We still have blessings, and murderers still go to jail.

Christ told us that He and the Father are one, yet you state the OT only tells of Jews and Jewishness. You are denying Christ when you deny the Father.

 

[gb9]

Depends on who's "words" you treasure most! Paul's? Or Christ's!

Paul's words and teachings are, or have been rendered, by "traditions" of man....EXTREMELY easy in the following of!
Christ's words and teachings are a mite more difficult!

Follow Paul? Follow Christ!

The "choice?".....Is yours!

so, what issue do you have with the Cannon? are you mad because 1st Enoch was left out?

 

[Tim416]

well, since Romans 2 comes before Romans 8, and since in Romans 2, Paul clearly states " gentiles do not have the Law ", and since Paul never taught them Sabbath in any of His letters, then how do we gentiles have to keep commands we were never given.

.

Or not the written law may be more exact:

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.