The Prodigal Son examined
- Thread starter Macabeus
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Despite the wickedness unbelief and hardness of heart among the Pharisees and Sadducees etc. they were still atleast on the surface God's covenant people at the time!
Just like the israelites in the OT that were called to repentance many-a-times by the prophets when they were engaging in idolatry and ba'al worship of all kinds! They were STILL God's covenant people, which is why the prophets were sent to begin with to CALL THEM back to repentance.
Just like the israelites in the OT that were called to repentance many-a-times by the prophets when they were engaging in idolatry and ba'al worship of all kinds! They were STILL God's covenant people, which is why the prophets were sent to begin with to CALL THEM back to repentance.
-
2
- Show all
17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you, 19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”
=====
This is my favorite part of the parable. I believed a number of us, when we first accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, made that decision based on "carnal reasons".
For me, I just felt that there was nothing to lose by doing so, even if what I am reading about Jesus turns out to be incorrect. You will at least be assured of being in heaven when your life ends. This is the "Pascal's wager" reasoning to be a Christian.
To find out that the Father accepted the Son, even when he had the wrong motivation to come home, was very reassuring and reminded me how great is the Father's love for us.
=====
This is my favorite part of the parable. I believed a number of us, when we first accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, made that decision based on "carnal reasons".
For me, I just felt that there was nothing to lose by doing so, even if what I am reading about Jesus turns out to be incorrect. You will at least be assured of being in heaven when your life ends. This is the "Pascal's wager" reasoning to be a Christian.
To find out that the Father accepted the Son, even when he had the wrong motivation to come home, was very reassuring and reminded me how great is the Father's love for us.
-
1
- Show all
Jesus told the leaders "you are of your father the devil"
So they were not of the heavenly father. The produgal was born into the Father. The SAME father he went back to.
You forget,it wad Jesus that preached "ye must be born again"
That right there showed he understood those born again have a different Father. Weather Jew or Greek.
You paint yourself in corner after corner under that concept of the rest of the bible to be minimized and not taken seriously
So they were not of the heavenly father. The produgal was born into the Father. The SAME father he went back to.
You forget,it wad Jesus that preached "ye must be born again"
That right there showed he understood those born again have a different Father. Weather Jew or Greek.
You paint yourself in corner after corner under that concept of the rest of the bible to be minimized and not taken seriously
Does not work.
Play it out.
The produgal was ALREADY restored to full family inheritance BEFORE he departed.
You have to assume a Jew Returning to the law was the ultimate family restoration.
You have to assume the father of the produgal thought, erroneously, that a jew restored to Judaism is fully restored with no need to be born again ( a new creation with a new father).
That dog won't hunt.
The produgal situation ONLY FITS a christian template.
The starting place needed no modifying.
Your starting place is broken,because the Jews,all of them,needed rebirth.
Play it out.
The produgal was ALREADY restored to full family inheritance BEFORE he departed.
You have to assume a Jew Returning to the law was the ultimate family restoration.
You have to assume the father of the produgal thought, erroneously, that a jew restored to Judaism is fully restored with no need to be born again ( a new creation with a new father).
That dog won't hunt.
The produgal situation ONLY FITS a christian template.
The starting place needed no modifying.
Your starting place is broken,because the Jews,all of them,needed rebirth.
“JESUS’ TRUE FAMILY - Matthew 12
46 While He (Christ) yet talked to the people (concerns the terrible Word He has just delivered concerning Israel’s present and future state), behold, His mother and His brethren stood without, desiring to speak with Him (Jesus was probably in a particular house, with it being filled with people, with no more room for others to come in, hence His family not able to get to Him; their desire to speak with Him was not in a positive sense).
47 Then one said unto Him, Behold, Your mother and Your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with You (they had things to say to Him, but they little desired to hear what He had to say to them; thankfully, that would change after His Death and Resurrection).
48 But He answered and said unto him who told Him, Who is My mother? and who are My brethren? (This totally refutes the claims later made by the Catholic Church.)
“49 And He stretched forth His Hand toward His Disciples (refers to the original Twelve, but is not limited to them, as it refers to any and all who follow Him, as the next Passage proclaims), and said, Behold My mother and My brethren!
50 For whosoever (increases the dimensions of His family to include all who follow Him) shall do the will of My Father which is in Heaven (proclaims the qualifications for being a part of the Family of God), the same is My brother, and sister, and mother (places no significance on physical birth, but everything on spiritual birth).”
JSM
46 While He (Christ) yet talked to the people (concerns the terrible Word He has just delivered concerning Israel’s present and future state), behold, His mother and His brethren stood without, desiring to speak with Him (Jesus was probably in a particular house, with it being filled with people, with no more room for others to come in, hence His family not able to get to Him; their desire to speak with Him was not in a positive sense).
47 Then one said unto Him, Behold, Your mother and Your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with You (they had things to say to Him, but they little desired to hear what He had to say to them; thankfully, that would change after His Death and Resurrection).
48 But He answered and said unto him who told Him, Who is My mother? and who are My brethren? (This totally refutes the claims later made by the Catholic Church.)
“49 And He stretched forth His Hand toward His Disciples (refers to the original Twelve, but is not limited to them, as it refers to any and all who follow Him, as the next Passage proclaims), and said, Behold My mother and My brethren!
50 For whosoever (increases the dimensions of His family to include all who follow Him) shall do the will of My Father which is in Heaven (proclaims the qualifications for being a part of the Family of God), the same is My brother, and sister, and mother (places no significance on physical birth, but everything on spiritual birth).”
JSM
It seems to me that the Prodigal had spent his PORTION of the family inheritance. Remember? The Father gave it to him and he spent it on riotous living?
Who said anything about returning to the Law? I thought the Publicans and sinners, whom the Prodigal represents were COMING TO JESUS. Yes, that is correct. The Prodigal was returning to His Father, who represents God. The Law is not God, so the Prodigal was not returning to the law, he was returning to Jesus
No one was ever saved by the Law. Salvation has ALWAYS been through faith. From Abel to the last christian who will ever live.
Wow, way to miss the entire point of the parable. The parable is not about anything except a sinner being restored to God, and the fact that often religious people miss the point about grace. The Prodigal was a sinner, was he not? And he was restored to God, was he not? And how was he restored? By coming to Jesus. The Elder missed the point, did he not? The elder failed to rejoice when his brother came home, did he not? The Father entreated him to have a change of heart, did he not?
The point was, the Publicans and sinners came to Jesus and having been lost, they had been found. Nothing to do with returning to the Law. The Prodigal in the parable did not come to a law, they came to the Father. The Publicans and sinners, like the Prodigal, came to the Father through faith in Jesus.
Faith in Jesus does fit the Christian template PERFECTLY.
Rebirth through faith in Jesus. Did the Publicans and sinners always have faith in Jesus?
Because of their unbelief and the works that issued from their unbelief. If they had believed, they would have been saved just like the Publicans and sinners. Did you notice that in the Parable of the Prodigal Son, when the Father went out and entreated the Elder, that his response is never given? It is deliberately left open ended.
Were the Publicans and sinners "of the heavenly father" before they came to Jesus?
When did this happen?
When believed on Jesus and they went to Jesus, they were returning to the Father, correct?
Yes, those who are born again are those who come to Jesus.
By your logic, a person who is born again can be lost and be found again and die and live again and be found again. Is that what you are arguing for? After all, the Father described the Prodigal as lost and dead. Are born again people lost and dead?
No one minimalizes or fails to take the whole Bible seriously but those who reject the finished work of Christ by saying that He failed to fulfill the Law. What part of the Bible am I minimalizing?
Who said anything about returning to the Law? I thought the Publicans and sinners, whom the Prodigal represents were COMING TO JESUS. Yes, that is correct. The Prodigal was returning to His Father, who represents God. The Law is not God, so the Prodigal was not returning to the law, he was returning to Jesus
No one was ever saved by the Law. Salvation has ALWAYS been through faith. From Abel to the last christian who will ever live.
Wow, way to miss the entire point of the parable. The parable is not about anything except a sinner being restored to God, and the fact that often religious people miss the point about grace. The Prodigal was a sinner, was he not? And he was restored to God, was he not? And how was he restored? By coming to Jesus. The Elder missed the point, did he not? The elder failed to rejoice when his brother came home, did he not? The Father entreated him to have a change of heart, did he not?
The point was, the Publicans and sinners came to Jesus and having been lost, they had been found. Nothing to do with returning to the Law. The Prodigal in the parable did not come to a law, they came to the Father. The Publicans and sinners, like the Prodigal, came to the Father through faith in Jesus.
Faith in Jesus does fit the Christian template PERFECTLY.
Rebirth through faith in Jesus. Did the Publicans and sinners always have faith in Jesus?
Because of their unbelief and the works that issued from their unbelief. If they had believed, they would have been saved just like the Publicans and sinners. Did you notice that in the Parable of the Prodigal Son, when the Father went out and entreated the Elder, that his response is never given? It is deliberately left open ended.
Were the Publicans and sinners "of the heavenly father" before they came to Jesus?
When did this happen?
When believed on Jesus and they went to Jesus, they were returning to the Father, correct?
Yes, those who are born again are those who come to Jesus.
By your logic, a person who is born again can be lost and be found again and die and live again and be found again. Is that what you are arguing for? After all, the Father described the Prodigal as lost and dead. Are born again people lost and dead?
No one minimalizes or fails to take the whole Bible seriously but those who reject the finished work of Christ by saying that He failed to fulfill the Law. What part of the Bible am I minimalizing?
-
1
- Show all
Addendum to last post to absolutely
As far as sons, the same principle is used in another parable.
Matthew 21:
28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. 30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”
They said to Him, “The first.”
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward[f]relent and believe him.
QUESTION- WAS THE ONE WHO FAILED TO DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER BORN AGAIN? I SAY NO! What was the will of the Father? To enter into the kingdom through faith in Christ. The first son, the publicans and harlots entered in. The second son, the people Jesus was speaking to, the religious leaders did not.
See? The ones who did not believe were likened unto sons along with the ones who did believe.
One of the rules of interpreting parables is not to read too much into the several parts, but to glean the overarching MAIN POINT of the parable. To ignore the rules of exegesis is neither wise nor safe.
It is important to let scripture, not our traditions, interpret scripture...
As far as sons, the same principle is used in another parable.
Matthew 21:
28 “But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ 29 He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. 30 Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?”
They said to Him, “The first.”
Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward[f]relent and believe him.
QUESTION- WAS THE ONE WHO FAILED TO DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER BORN AGAIN? I SAY NO! What was the will of the Father? To enter into the kingdom through faith in Christ. The first son, the publicans and harlots entered in. The second son, the people Jesus was speaking to, the religious leaders did not.
See? The ones who did not believe were likened unto sons along with the ones who did believe.
One of the rules of interpreting parables is not to read too much into the several parts, but to glean the overarching MAIN POINT of the parable. To ignore the rules of exegesis is neither wise nor safe.
It is important to let scripture, not our traditions, interpret scripture...
-
1
- Show all
The two sons in the parable of Matthew 21:28-32 represent the same people as the two sons in the parable of the prodigal son. One represents publicans and sinners and the other represents the religious leaders/scribes and Pharisees. This answers the chief objection to the view set forth here, that the scribes and pharisees were not sons. But Jesus uses the figure of son here in Matthew 21 in reference to them (scribes and Pharisees).
He is not saying they are sons by new birth in either parable, it is just one of the figures in the parable. Again, we should not read too much into the individual parts of the parable, but first seek the single truth it is trying to teach first.
He is not saying they are sons by new birth in either parable, it is just one of the figures in the parable. Again, we should not read too much into the individual parts of the parable, but first seek the single truth it is trying to teach first.
-
1
- Show all
Your final conclusion has no bearing on the truth of what I posted....A son by birth will always be a son by birth.....and if anything that truth is strengthened in the spiritual realm....so.....in all honesty and without your normal "loss of salvation bias" tell me what the bolded words actually mean.....
Born from above by INCORRUPTIBLE seed
Saved to the UTTERMOST
KEPT by the POWER OF GOD
I will LOSE NOTHING, but RAISE it up the last day
He that believes on the Son is having EVERLASTING LIFE
HE that began a good work in you will FINISH IT and COMPLETE it
We are SEALED UNTO the day of REDEMPTION
I will NEVER leave thee nor FORSAKE thee
Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the MORE
Born from above by INCORRUPTIBLE seed
Saved to the UTTERMOST
KEPT by the POWER OF GOD
I will LOSE NOTHING, but RAISE it up the last day
He that believes on the Son is having EVERLASTING LIFE
HE that began a good work in you will FINISH IT and COMPLETE it
We are SEALED UNTO the day of REDEMPTION
I will NEVER leave thee nor FORSAKE thee
Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the MORE
-
1
- Show all
Considering both Protestants and Catholics, nearly 2 billion people in the world refer to themselves as "Christian." And yet, Jesus said, "And few there be who find it," speaking of Eternal Life (Matthew 7:14).
So, this means that hundreds of millions are in the church but not "in Christ." As well, it speaks of tremendous numbers of others who are truly "in Christ," but will ultimately be removed for lack of fruit bearing. In other words, they forsake the Cross for something else (John 15:2, 6).
All born again Christians place their Faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary for salvation. But few Christians place and maintain their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary for sanctification. In other words their Faith may be in Christ but not the Cross, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." The Apostle Paul calls this "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4). Christ must never be separated from the Work of the Cross; to do so is to produce "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4).
So, this means that hundreds of millions are in the church but not "in Christ." As well, it speaks of tremendous numbers of others who are truly "in Christ," but will ultimately be removed for lack of fruit bearing. In other words, they forsake the Cross for something else (John 15:2, 6).
All born again Christians place their Faith in Jesus Christ and the Cross of Calvary for salvation. But few Christians place and maintain their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary for sanctification. In other words their Faith may be in Christ but not the Cross, i.e., "The Finished Work," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." The Apostle Paul calls this "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4). Christ must never be separated from the Work of the Cross; to do so is to produce "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4).
-
1
- Show all
Salvation is not losable nor is it kept by our performance and or a lack thereof.......Christ will LOSE nothing and he will finish and complete the work that he started while keeping us by his power.....
It must be a shame for you to serve such a weak, inept god that cannot keep his word or keep you saved.......
It must be a shame for you to serve such a weak, inept god that cannot keep his word or keep you saved.......
If you look Matthew 21, you will find the religious leaders, scribes and Pharisees likened to sons just as they are in Luke 15, so you are reading too much into the word son. And these parables have absolutely nothi hing to do with the OSAS vs NOSAS debate. That would be using them out of their proper context, which is not safe
But on a side note, I believe that believers are secure in Christ. But the key words are believers and in Christ
But on a side note, I believe that believers are secure in Christ. But the key words are believers and in Christ
Jesus likened the unbelieving Pharisees to sons in the parable of the two sons in Matthew 21. Perhaps you are reading things into the parables that Jesus did not intend.
The fact that Jesus likened certain Jews to sons does not mean they were all of His flock nor does it mean they were born again. In the parable of the two sons, Jesus referred to the unbelieving Pharisees as sons, albeit disobedient sons. See Matthew 21 beginning at about verse 20 or so. This removes the unfactual notion that everyone who is called a son in a parable is saved. You people read that into the parable
Parables use typological language to convey one central truth. You should not take every part of the parable so literally, but instead look for the main truth the parable is meant to teach
The fact that Jesus likened certain Jews to sons does not mean they were all of His flock nor does it mean they were born again. In the parable of the two sons, Jesus referred to the unbelieving Pharisees as sons, albeit disobedient sons. See Matthew 21 beginning at about verse 20 or so. This removes the unfactual notion that everyone who is called a son in a parable is saved. You people read that into the parable
Parables use typological language to convey one central truth. You should not take every part of the parable so literally, but instead look for the main truth the parable is meant to teach
I would see the parable in one sense more of the "waiting father" then "prodigal son" in whom the father is drawing from a far off . As in no one comes to the father unless he does draw them . The oldest son never entered in. The second born who did enter in is many times used to represent spiritual birth. First the flesh, and then the spirit .
-
1
- Show all