The Church of Laodicea?

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Dec 26, 2018
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#21
A. There is no such thing as lost men being identified as Christians in the biblical sense
B. No one will convince me that Jesus addressed them as a Church if they were lost men

A way ward church in need of repentance yes.....fully agree
I guess I’m on the fence about that...addressing the church and believers only, is what I have always understood....but not sure because of the “spew you out of my mouth” reference.....i do believe in eternal salvation....but maybe he is addressing a portion of the Church, that is on the fence, and has not fully accepted Christ.....maybe they “believe” in Chirist, but do not make the connection of “believe he died for your sins” .....which would bring in hypocrisy, as they preach a message with a beam in the eye
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#22
When the majority of the Christian denominations push their doctrines of men before those of God, and omit the Holy Spi9rit, even denying God is powerful, they are nothing more than social venture, not even hot nor cold

I could be off-base on this however I have fellowshiped in at least a dozen different denominations.

Having shared this I do not say there ae not brethren in all denominations but they seem to work more on making lfe easy fro themselves than joining the invisible war.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#24
What do you guys think? Is that us?
Some people think that the 7 Churches are actual Churches that existed back at that time, which they might have been having them traits, but I believe it is a prophecy of how the Church age will go in major influence at that time period, and even though that age might of had some flaws with it there has still always been people that were in the truth.

Like when Israel went astray from the truth following Baal, but God said He always has Jews that are in the truth, for 7000 people did not bow to Baal, like today with Jews that accept Christ.

With the Churches the first one left their first love, and which Jesus told them to repent, and correct that.

Then I see the Roman Catholic Church in there when they had a major influence on the people, for it is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their religious ways, but held unto them, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures.

Then it cleared up in influence among them, and not so much of paganism, but their works were not found perfect before God, and Jesus told them to repent, and correct it, which appears when the Protestant movement happened.

Then in the 6th Church which was a major influence at the time, Jesus did not have anything against them, which is probably because the Protestant movement cleared up the deception of the Roman Catholic Church, and got it back on track concerning many people, as we see today.

Then in the 7th Church they were lukewarm, and interested in money, and material things, and hypocritical, which we can readily see today with the prosperity Gospel, and hypocrisy of many enjoying the world as the world enjoys it, which God said they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

Which only because of technology can this happen because it caused money, and material things to flow like a raging river, to where they are rich, and increased with goods, and say they have need of nothing.

The same as the Bible tells us of the last generation before Jesus comes back that they will devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, which happened because of technology that caused money, and material things to flow big time, and caused many people to pursue it, which they could not pursue it to that degree before technology.

Paul said that when they say Peace and safety, which is when the nations come together as one and try to establish peace on earth, which will develop in to a kingdom that rebels against God stopping the truth of the Bible worldwide adhering to the new age movement, that they saints in the truth will not be deceived by that for they will know it is not of God, and it becomes a deciding point for the whole world whether to get with God, or follow the world.

Which Jesus said concerning the 6th Church that He will deliver the saints that are in the truth from the temptation that shall come upon all the world to try all them that dwell on earth.

Which there can only be one temptation that can come upon the whole world at one time, and that is when the nations come together and say Peace and safety which will happen in the future, and not too far off.

So the 6th Church has to be here now, and could of not of been in the past, and the 6th and 7th Church are both at the time now.

And Jesus said concerning the 6th Church that He will make those of the synagogue of Satan come to worship at the feet of those saints that are in the truth, which would be a Church prior to the 6th Church, so they have to be both operating today.

So a Church prior to the 6th Church, the synagogue of Satan, the 6th Church, and the 7th Church are all at the end time which is now.

Which we can see the Roman Catholic Church here with their pagan foundation, the occult, the Protestant movement, and those that were influenced by it weeding out the deception of the Roman Catholic Church more and more as time went on, and the hypocritical people that love money, and material things, and things of the world, are all here now at this time.

So while there may be 7 Churches that displayed those traits back then, it appears as if it is prophecy of how the Church age will go in major influence at a certain time period from the start of the Church until Jesus comes back and the saints are gathered unto Him.

So all 7 Churches traits are all here today, but at the time that Church age was going on they were a major influence upon the people, and if any flaws concerning that Church age there were still people that were in the truth, and not influenced by them.

The 5th Church that was a major influence at that time broke away from the synagogue of Satan, although they were not quite in the total truth yet, as they started weeding out the falsehood of the major influence of the Church prior to it, and after many years of weeding out the falsehood, and learning more of the Bible that when they got to the 6th Church Jesus did not have anything against them, for they got it back in the truth that was the original meaning of the Bible.

So I believe the 7 Churches is prophecy from the first Church to the seventh Church that we see today, and the Roman Catholic Church, and the Protestant movement, and people that could read the Bible and understand truth without obstruction, and the hypocrisy, and love of money, and material things, are all going on today.

And in the 6th Church there is no way the whole world can be tempted at the same time with the same temptation at that time period in the first century, and it cannot be a temptation such as stealing, or cheating on the spouse, but has to be something different than that, which is when the nations come together and say Peace and safety, and the world is tempted by it for the nations governments will say it is the best operation for the world, and the new age movement, and their interpretation of the Bible based on evolution, and people can still evolve, and people have a choice to make whether to get with God, or follow the world.

Which God said multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision, for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

So that temptation of the 6th Church has to be in the future when the nations come together and say Peace and safety.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#25
NAAAAA......on the earth there is churches (plural) each is an autonomous body of believers with equal right and authority before the throne....IN heaven there is ONE body of believers....
The believers as a whole on the earth is the church, the body of Christ.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#26
Does this need to be another KJV-only thread? Really? I guess the Church just doesn't exist in any area that doesn't speak English.

... smh
Believers exist all over the world and do not need a KJV to get saved. Thankfully, the KJV still exists and always will while all the new versions fall.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#27
I agree, but what about “I will spew you out of my mouth”.....I can’t imagine that is the bema seat
My view....he is not speaking of salvation individually, the warning was the loss of authority as a New Testament church hence the stirring of the candlestick out of the way......the warning was essentially to get their act together as a church or be removed as a church......too many make the mistake of believing that the Lord is threatening the loss of salvation....that line of thought is no where near the truth....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#28
The believers as a whole on the earth is the church, the body of Christ.
Wrong..........each individual church is an autonomous body......Peter proves this....we as living stones come together and make up a body of Christ.....Universal church is false! Revelation proves this as well......7 different churches, individual, separate of one another, each it's own body with it's own messenger, it's own warnings and or praise etc........
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#29
I guess I’m on the fence about that...addressing the church and believers only, is what I have always understood....but not sure because of the “spew you out of my mouth” reference.....i do believe in eternal salvation....but maybe he is addressing a portion of the Church, that is on the fence, and has not fully accepted Christ.....maybe they “believe” in Chirist, but do not make the connection of “believe he died for your sins” .....which would bring in hypocrisy, as they preach a message with a beam in the eye
We cannot alleviate the fact that the warnings and or praise found written in Revelation is written collectively to church bodies and the only particular, focused application is to the "messengers" (pastors) of those churches.......these are church warnings and or praise and the threat is the loss of authority as an assembly......stirring the candlestick out of it's place = the light being put out.....no more authority as a church body......I do concede there are a few pointed applications aimed directly at groups or individuals within the body...I.E. Nicolaitans and Jezebel, but overall individual church warnings and or praise.....
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#30
Wrong..........each individual church is an autonomous body......Peter proves this....we as living stones come together and make up a body of Christ.....Universal church is false! Revelation proves this as well......7 different churches, individual, separate of one another, each it's own body with it's own messenger, it's own warnings and or praise etc........
There's not many bodies of Christ, but one. Each individual church may contain lost people who are not in the body of Christ. The "universal church" is the collective whole as believers, making up different members of on body. The seven churches represent seven distinct time periods of the church as a whole.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#31
Believers exist all over the world and do not need a KJV to get saved. Thankfully, the KJV still exists and always will while all the new versions fall.
This is exactly the kind of comment that causes division. Does your cult teach you to cause division, or is that just your specialty?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#32
This is exactly the kind of comment that causes division. Does your cult teach you to cause division, or is that just your specialty?
Having more than one version of the bible, each one containing different words and different truths...that's not what causes divisions? Can you not see that brother? Is that what God wanted? Confusion about His word?

The main cause of the church of Laodicea...confusion on what saith the Scriptures.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#33
All verions of the Word are useful in the disemenation of the Gospel.

When I have read various versions of the Word I have also seen what seemed erroneous to me.

I overlook human error in translations because afgter decades of reading the Word in English and other languages, I hav eunderstood there are some words in the original text, in Hebrew that is, where the scholars since have lost the atual meanings of word.s.

I believe the Holy Spirit imparts to all who bliev what is truly necessary.

It is certain many have read about the unicorn in the Word and not had a problem for you know there is no such animal. The Hebrew here does have a tranlation of the word that is a buffalo. If your mind goes to the wild west, settle it now for there are buffalo of once type or another all around the world.

I like the KJV a lot. Why? I was raised with it. YIou like another version? Just fin.....The Holy Spirit teaches you and me alike.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#34
My view....he is not speaking of salvation individually, the warning was the loss of authority as a New Testament church hence the stirring of the candlestick out of the way......the warning was essentially to get their act together as a church or be removed as a church......too many make the mistake of believing that the Lord is threatening the loss of salvation....that line of thought is no where near the truth....
Amen! The removal of the candlestick/lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that a group of people of the church at Ephesus will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city (located in modern day Turkey) which has become dominated by Islam.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#35
I do agree, I assume it is written to the beliver.....but “spew you out of my mouth”
Yes isn't that so so interesting.

First let me say again these were indeed believers, they have become indifferent to who they have become.

Did you know that the actual water at Laodicea was indeed actually tepid because it mixed with the water from the hot springs at Heiropolis, if they wanted fresh, cool water they needed to go to Colosse.

In a warm Mediterranean climate one does not enjoy or want tepid water.

There is a chiastic structure here with the church at Ephesus also.

Simply put, Jesus does not like/hates this indifference and self delusion of this church.

They were indifferent to the loving appeal to return to their first love, and then indifferent to their spiritual state that they eventually became.

In contrast, those who do respond to His appeal to repent and return to their first love would be seen described as having fellowship with Him: "if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." (3:20)

Spewing from His mouth is figurative language to denote how distasteful He finds the indifference and the self-suffiency of this church.

So little scripture is about saved/not saved and yet people add it in everywhere.

This is the constant misreading of scripture through western culture eyes, a huge problem ......imho
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#36
Having more than one version of the bible, each one containing different words and different truths...that's not what causes divisions? Can you not see that brother? Is that what God wanted? Confusion about His word?

The main cause of the church of Laodicea...confusion on what saith the Scriptures.
to be fair the KJVonly community is also very divided and cant agree on anything, despite having just one bible, the KJV.

The problem isnt the bible or translations of it, the problem is people. Everyone has a different brain that processes ideas differently, which leads to different interpretations. Add to that demonic influence and cultic leaders and BAM we got ourselves a mess.

Then sometimes people just TWIST the Bible to their LIKING: One example of this is the alcohol verses in the Bible, God specifically told Israel to buy whatever you want in Deuteronomy and listed wine and strong drink on it. Now I have a problem with that, as do many baptists and pentecostals, many of them teach absolute 0 tolerance for alcohol. I have so many people around me who have destroyed their life with it, and I think its better to not have one drink EVER, that guarantees you wont become a drunkard. Thats my opinion. BUT its not biblical, if i start pushing that as Bible, now I am just making it up as I go along, yet I see many preachers do that. They arent honest with the text.

Until everyone agrees with me, the church is just doomed to be wrong :/
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#37
1. That message is not for a specific time period or specific church group, it is for every one that think they are a believer from 1st century to the end of age. The very last sentence says:
"..let he who has an ear hear what the spirit tells the churches..". The word churches means everyone and not specific people.

2. Only two groups of people are saved; the ones who know nothing at all (children/disabled) and those that truly know God. The mammoth religious crowd in between these two that claim to worship God are headed for a big disappointment.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
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#38
What do you guys think? Is that us?
I'm sure some of us here on this forum are spiritually lukewarm.
Outside of this and other Christian forums, however, I believe the majority of church body in whole are definitely lukewarm.
In addition to this lukewarm spirituality, an acceptance for things of the Nicolaitanes who accept the carnal pleasures of Jezebel (Revelation 2:14-15, & 20), I believe is the reason why the Lord will once again shake the earth, in order to remove those whose faith is made and can be shaken out, so that those whose faith cannot be shaken, remain (Hebrews 12:26-27).

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,595
13,858
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#39
Having more than one version of the bible, each one containing different words and different truths...that's not what causes divisions? Can you not see that brother? Is that what God wanted? Confusion about His word?
This confusion is caused when one person claims that their preferred version is the truth rather than simply saying, "This version says such and such". It is rooted in ignorance, closed-mindedness, and fear, which are propagated and perpetuated by leaders within the cult. The fearless learner trusts the Holy Spirit to teach him or her rather than blindly trusting in what another human tells them... especially when it is inherently divisive.

The main cause of the church of Laodicea...confusion on what saith the Scriptures.
That's not what the Scripture says... not even in the KJV.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#40
The hot and cold works...
Its talking about our works...

What could be hot works, and what could be cold works??
Jesus is counselling the lukewarm church of loedicians who say they are rich, but dont know they are actually poor to go buy clothes, gold and eyesalve from Him. Hes talks about knocking at their door, kind of like a door to door salesman, and he will come in to them and sup with them.

To me this doesnt sound like hypocrisy, It sounds more like indifference. It sounds like Jesus wants to give His riches to them but they seem indifferent, he would be knocking at their door to give them more but they the ones ignoring Him. They the ones that maybe in the gated communities, who are self-abosrbed and comfortable in their own little worlds. They the ones saying not thank you Lord, Im good. Or not even that, they could be the ones completely ignoring Him, and not even opening the door.