Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

[Blik]

So you just don't want to answer? Too embarrassed?

Grandpa, how crude!! I answered by asking you a civil reasonable question, asking your reaction to these two scriptures and I think it would clear your position if you answer.

Because you aren't answering, I will. I don't see that these change God in any way, as you seem to feel God changes. We are humans and we simply cannot be God. God is righteous, we are not. We can't achieve that through the law. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we belong to the Lord, not to sin, we are to live within those guidelines.

When we quiet ourselves to sit in listening prayer, we are not told over and over "works won't save you".

 

[Guojing]

I mostly agree with you.

Except that the bible says that Abraham kept Gods statutes and laws. I'm NOT saying that is the law of Moses. Far from it.

I'm just saying that what Abraham did probably wasn't against God. Even though it seems like it should have been to us.

So are you saying Abraham was blessed by God because he kept those statutes and laws?

 

[PS]

Abraham was blessed by God because he believed, was faithful, obedient, and submissive.

“And he said, Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and get you into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you of” (Genesis 22:2).

 

[Grandpa]

So are you saying Abraham was blessed by God because he kept those statutes and laws?

He was blessed because he believed God.

It was God who said that Abraham kept His Statutes and Laws.

So that makes me wonder. Did Abraham officially lie? No, I don't think he did. Was marrying his sister an abomination? No. I don't think it was because they had different mothers.

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa, how crude!! I answered by asking you a civil reasonable question, asking your reaction to these two scriptures and I think it would clear your position if you answer.

Because you aren't answering, I will. I don't see that these change God in any way, as you seem to feel God changes. We are humans and we simply cannot be God. God is righteous, we are not. We can't achieve that through the law. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we belong to the Lord, not to sin, we are to live within those guidelines.

When we quiet ourselves to sit in listening prayer, we are not told over and over "works won't save you".

I don't know why you think that since God is eternal then all the ways that He deals with men are eternal as well.

Its obviously not true. Otherwise there would be no way to give rest, there would be no way to NOT be under the law, there would be no need for another Priest that came from a different line than Levi.

This is abundantly obvious in the scriptures.

God doesn't have to change in order to change the way He deals with men.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

[Guojing]

He was blessed because he believed God.

It was God who said that Abraham kept His Statutes and Laws.

So that makes me wonder. Did Abraham officially lie? No, I don't think he did. Was marrying his sister an abomination? No. I don't think it was because they had different mothers.

Lev 18
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. 10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.

The way you try to justify Abraham's actions is quite amusing. Isn't it much easier to conclude that he was not under the Law of Moses?

 

[Grandpa]

Lev 18
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. 10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.

The way you try to justify Abraham's actions is quite amusing. Isn't it much easier to conclude that he was not under the Law of Moses?

I never said he was under the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses wasn't for another 400+ yrs.

Are you assuming that Gods Laws and Statutes are the same as Moses Law? Why would anyone do that when Moses Law wasn't for another 400+ yrs?

 

[PS]

Lev 18
8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. 10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness.

The way you try to justify Abraham's actions is quite amusing. Isn't it much easier to conclude that he was not under the Law of Moses?

How can you expect Abraham to obey the Mosaic Law when Abraham was born 642 years before Moses?

 

[Blik]

I don't know why you think that since God is eternal then all the ways that He deals with men are eternal as well.

Its obviously not true. Otherwise there would be no way to give rest, there would be no way to NOT be under the law, there would be no need for another Priest that came from a different line than Levi.

This is abundantly obvious in the scriptures.

God doesn't have to change in order to change the way He deals with men.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

We are not speaking of "a way to deal with men". We are speaking of God's plan for our salvation, of God's principles. We have established that blood is required for salvation, that this does not change with time. The blood that God designates for salvation was Christ's blood, scripture states animal blood is insufficient. For 4,000 years animal blood was substituted until Christ came in our time.

The rest in the Lord is true and it is not, as you say, based on our time. It is a truth of the Lord. We cannot become righteous and saved by something we do, we become saved through blood, and that was always true.

What is effected by time is the culture of man, with people using the law incorrectly. People didn't understand what God meant when God gave law and Paul tried to straighten them out. The Pharisees got legalistic obedience mixed up with the meaning of the law. You have it mixed up with saying the law has something bad about it don't listen. You even bring up how useless it is for salvation, to argue about don't listen to it.

We need to sort the scripture out, it is all true and doesn't and didn't change. Work, salvation, walking with the Lord, working for the Lord, the Lords majesty and holiness, our inability to live without God, it all applies, all is true, we need to sort each out and put in its proper place. It is not proper to put down and ignore the law.

 

[Blik]

How can you expect Abraham to obey the Mosaic Law when Abraham was born 642 years before Moses?

The mosaic is written inside of us when we are born. Sorry that scripture is in my memory and not fingertips.

It was Abrahams faith that was counted as righteousness, but it was Abraham's works that showed his faith. What we do, think, and say (our works) are always the results of our beliefs.

 

[PS]

The mosaic is written inside of us when we are born. Sorry that scripture is in my memory and not fingertips.

I think you have that wrong.

“YHWH said to Moses: ‘Come up to me on the mountain and stay there so that I might give you the tablets of stone and the teaching and the commandment that I have written to teach them.’”—Exodus 24:12

Later God said:
The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this: I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. (Jer 31:33)

Now, this is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel in the days to come, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. (Heb 8:10)

It was Abrahams faith that was counted as righteousness, but it was Abraham's works that showed his faith. What we do, think, and say (our works) are always the results of our beliefs.

Yes. Read my post #103 a few posts further back.

 

[PS]

We are not speaking of "a way to deal with men". We are speaking of God's plan for our salvation, of God's principles. We have established that blood is required for salvation, that this does not change with time. The blood that God designates for salvation was Christ's blood, scripture states animal blood is insufficient. For 4,000 years animal blood was substituted until Christ came in our time.

The rest in the Lord is true and it is not, as you say, based on our time. It is a truth of the Lord. We cannot become righteous and saved by something we do, we become saved through blood, and that was always true.

What is effected by time is the culture of man, with people using the law incorrectly. People didn't understand what God meant when God gave law and Paul tried to straighten them out. The Pharisees got legalistic obedience mixed up with the meaning of the law. You have it mixed up with saying the law has something bad about it don't listen. You even bring up how useless it is for salvation, to argue about don't listen to it.

We need to sort the scripture out, it is all true and doesn't and didn't change. Work, salvation, walking with the Lord, working for the Lord, the Lords majesty and holiness, our inability to live without God, it all applies, all is true, we need to sort each out and put in its proper place. It is not proper to put down and ignore the law.

The blood that cleanses from all sin could only come from one source as Gleason Archer explains:

"God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age."

 

[Blik]

I think you have that wrong.

“YHWH said to Moses: ‘Come up to me on the mountain and stay there so that I might give you the tablets of stone and the teaching and the commandment that I have written to teach them.’”—Exodus 24:12

Later God said:
The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this: I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. (Jer 31:33)

Now, this is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel in the days to come, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. (Heb 8:10)


Yes. Read my post #103 a few posts further back.

Are you saying that the law written in our hearts is an entirely different law than the law God told of on the tablets? If that was so God would write plainly "you may steal I take it back", etc on down the line of the commandments. God didn't do that, and today's church should not do that either. It is not of God but of demons.

 

[Dino246]

Are you saying that the law written in our hearts is an entirely different law than the law God told of on the tablets? If that was so God would write plainly "you may steal I take it back", etc on down the line of the commandments. God didn't do that, and today's church should not do that either. It is not of God but of demons.

You've done this enough that it needs to be addressed.

When someone says "X", you come back with, "So are you saying 'LGBTQRSTUVW'"?

No, for heaven's sake. They're saying "X". Learn to respond to what people actually write, not what they don't write. Don't make up a bunch of barely-related hogwash and imply that's what they said. It fallacious, immature, and completely unproductive.

 

[Blik]

The blood that cleanses from all sin could only come from one source as Gleason Archer explains:

"God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age."

I am also saying that the blood that cleans can only come from one source, if you refute that there is a LOT of explaining to do. Why would David speak of salvation years before Christ?

Job_13:16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.
Psa_3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.

How is it that Moses was seen long after he physically died as in Matt. 27?

It could only be that God is eternal, so God is not limited by time as we are. We say Christ only lived within our kind of time, scripture says that Christ is God, and God is the I Am, God was at creation.

You've done this enough that it needs to be addressed.

When someone says "X", you come back with, "So are you saying 'LGBTQRSTUVW'"?

No, for heaven's sake. They're saying "X". Learn to respond to what people actually write, not what they don't write. Don't make up a bunch of barely-related hogwash and imply that's what they said. It fallacious, immature, and completely unproductive.

In any reasonable discussion the parties may ask if they understand correctly. I often do this. If you have a problem with people speaking together why not bow out?

 

[Guojing]

I never said he was under the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses wasn't for another 400+ yrs.

Are you assuming that Gods Laws and Statutes are the same as Moses Law? Why would anyone do that when Moses Law wasn't for another 400+ yrs?

What is the difference between the 2 here? You mean to say if its an abomination in Law of Moses, which is given by God, to marry your sister or half sister, but under God's law, its okay?

 

[Guojing]

How can you expect Abraham to obey the Mosaic Law when Abraham was born 642 years before Moses?

That is precisely my point, Abraham was not under Law at any point in his life. If he is not under Law, he is blessed and justified only because of God's grace.

 

[Grandpa]

Are you saying that the law written in our hearts is an entirely different law than the law God told of on the tablets? If that was so God would write plainly "you may steal I take it back", etc on down the line of the commandments. God didn't do that, and today's church should not do that either. It is not of God but of demons.

Yes. It is an entirely different law.

Before the 10 commandments were even written we have God stating that Abraham kept His statutes and His Laws.

You think it is "Do not steal" that is written on our hearts by God?? No, of course not. It is Love that is written on our hearts by God Himself.

 

[Grandpa]

What is the difference between the 2 here? You mean to say if its an abomination in Law of Moses, which is given by God, to marry your sister or half sister, but under God's law, its okay?

I'm not 100% sure here. I just know that God proclaimed Abraham as obeying His Law.

So what does that mean?

 

[Guojing]

I'm not 100% sure here. I just know that God proclaimed Abraham as obeying His Law.

So what does that mean?

Its like how God sees us today.

Even though we have unbelief, we know the good we should do but we don't, we don't love God with all our hearts/mind/soul, we don't love our neighbors as ourselves, in short, we are habitually sinning all the time, without even knowing it.

Yet, God sees us as righteous and following all his laws. Why? Because he sees us covered by Jesus's robe of righteousness. That is what not living under law, and under grace means.

There is an illustration of that with the prophet Balaam in the book of Numbers 23:21.