Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

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PS said:
Jesus said he came to fulfil the law, he did not say he came to fulfil the Commandments.

You said about 2 Cor. 3 that is simply saying the law on stones has been transferred to the flesh of our hearts, meaning it is forever engraved on our hearts till our dying day i.e. not ended.

When the law is fulfilled, it is ended. So be it Lord. But the commandments still stand.

I have to take the dog for a walk and will get back to you when I get home.
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No. They are TWO DIFFERENT Ministrations. The Ministration of Death is NOT Written on our hearts. The Ministration of Righteousness is Written on our hearts.

Giant distinction. Especially to those who don't understand that the 10 commandments are the Ministration of Death. Not because they are bad. But because they are bad for us who are carnal and have no strength in ourselves to obey them.
 
PS said:
The Ten Commandments given by God are for all time and all nations. Paul confirms it.

However, Paul in his letter to the Galatians chapter 3 verse 24 tells us we are no longer under Levitical Law.
The (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers (the Levitical Law); for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua. (HRB)

Neither do Gentiles come under the rule of the Levite Priests.

Goodbye.
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You can't tell me that Israel had not faith! Well? :p You can, but I'm not going to believe it!
For, why did Israel take the very food from their mouths, in the offering of sacrifices, if "not BY faith?" That the Lord would see this, and forgive?

This is "where" "familiarity BREEDS contempt", comes from.
This is what had occurred since:
Genesis 6
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Or? "Tis a far FAR better thing, to be golfing, and thinking about God, then, it is to be worshiping God, while thinking about golfing!"
 
Grandpa said:
Do you think Christianity is against any of this?

Do you think that those who have died to these commandments and are instead Alive to God are caused to break these?

Do you think a person is more righteous who tries really hard to obey these commandments rather than the one who has received rest from his work at the law and has received the Righteousness of Christ by faith?


This is the point that Paul tries to make to the legalists but they apparently don't quite get it.

Paul would throw away his "righteousness" that came from his work at the law in order to receive the Righteousness that Christ gives by faith.

When a person dies to their work at the law and their carnal understanding of it they can come to Christ and receive Real Righteousness before God. The Lord Jesus Christ TELLS us to do this.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

What fruit?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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This is the law that is ended:

The court must not inflict punishment on Shabbat — Ex. 35:3
Not to rob openly — Lev. 19:13
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
Not to pity the pursuer — Num. 35:12
The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
Not to delay burial overnight — Deut. 21:23
The court must not let the sorcerer live — Ex. 22:17
The court must not kill anybody on circumstantial evidence — Ex. 23:7
A judge must not pity the murderer or assaulter at the trial — Deut. 19:13
Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Lev 20:9 KJV)
 
PS said:
This is the law that is ended:

The court must not inflict punishment on Shabbat — Ex. 35:3
Not to rob openly — Lev. 19:13
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12
Not to pity the pursuer — Num. 35:12
The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
Not to delay burial overnight — Deut. 21:23
The court must not let the sorcerer live — Ex. 22:17
The court must not kill anybody on circumstantial evidence — Ex. 23:7
A judge must not pity the murderer or assaulter at the trial — Deut. 19:13
Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Lev 20:9 KJV)
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Of a truth! You are correct, sir!

The scribes and pharasee's, (aka lawyers and politicians) of today, have made certain these laws are not enforced!
 
PS said:
The Ten Commandments given by God are for all time and all nations. Paul confirms it.

However, Paul in his letter to the Galatians chapter 3 verse 24 tells us we are no longer under Levitical Law.
The (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers (the Levitical Law); for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua. (HRB)

Neither do Gentiles come under the rule of the Levite Priests.

Goodbye.
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Interesting, the Bible that you are using deliberately specify that, for Romans 7:7, the term "Law" that Paul used includes the 10 commandments, but on all the other occasions, Paul used "Law" to specifically refer to the ceremonial law and exclude the 10?

What Bible is that?
 
Guojing said:
Interesting, the Bible that you are using deliberately specify that, for Romans 7:7, the term "Law" that Paul used includes the 10 commandments, but on all the other occasions, Paul used "Law" to specifically refer to the ceremonial law and exclude the 10?

What Bible is that?
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It is the Hebrew Roots Bible. (HRB)

I am not "Hebrew Roots" but the translation is often more specific than the King James or other translations. As you can see, it put "Levitical Law" in brackets.
 
PS said:
It is the Hebrew Roots Bible. (HRB)

I am not "Hebrew Roots" but the translation is often more specific than the King James or other translations. As you can see, it put "Levitical Law" in brackets.
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So how does that Bible you have translate Romans 7? Only verse 7 does not have the Levitcal Law phrase while the rest have?
 
Guojing said:
So how does that Bible you have translate Romans 7? Only verse 7 does not have the Levitcal Law phrase while the rest have?
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Paul makes a distinction between the 613 Levetical Laws that prepared people for the coming Messiah and the Ten Commandments that are for all time.


Gal 3:22 But the Scripture locked up all under sin, that the promise by faith of Yahshua Messiah might be given to the ones believing.
Gal 3:23 But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
Gal 3:26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.


Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we have been set free from the penalty of the Torah, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the instruction sin? Let it not be! But I did not know sin except through the Torah; for also I did not know lust except the Torah said, "You shall not lust." (Ex. 20:17)
 
Grandpa said:
No. The Lord Jesus Christ didn't say He came to fulfill part of the law or some of the law.

He said not one Jot or one Tittle would fall from the law until ALL is fulfilled.

That means, if you are sure that some part of the law has been fulfilled, if you trust in Christs Words, then ALL of the Law has been fulfilled. This necessarily means the 10 commandments as well.

Which is explained in 2 Corinthians 3 pretty exhaustively.

Moses Law given to Moses on Mount Sinai is over for the Christian who accepts the New Covenant in Christ.
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Would you explain what you think it means that the law is fulfilled. It could mean that now the law is over and done with so forget all God says about it, and it could mean that Christ explains and is the end result of all the law, that through Christ we are forgiven our sins or?????
 
PS said:
Paul makes a distinction between the 613 Levetical Laws that prepared people for the coming Messiah and the Ten Commandments that are for all time.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture locked up all under sin, that the promise by faith of Yahshua Messiah might be given to the ones believing.
Gal 3:23 But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
Gal 3:26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.
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Well... there's nothing quite like adding words to Scripture in order to make your point.

Eisegesis much?
 
PS said:
Paul makes a distinction between the 613 Levetical Laws that prepared people for the coming Messiah and the Ten Commandments that are for all time.


Gal 3:22 But the Scripture locked up all under sin, that the promise by faith of Yahshua Messiah might be given to the ones believing.
Gal 3:23 But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
Gal 3:24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
Gal 3:26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.


Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we have been set free from the penalty of the Torah, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the instruction sin? Let it not be! But I did not know sin except through the Torah; for also I did not know lust except the Torah said, "You shall not lust." (Ex. 20:17)
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So, in the Bible that you read from, the bracketed term (Levitical) appears only in Galatians chapter 3, while in Romans, whenever the term Law appears, it is the term Torah instead, and hence includes the 10 commandments? This is most fascinating.
 
Guojing said:
So, in the Bible that you read from, the bracketed term (Levitical) appears only in Galatians chapter 3, while in Romans, whenever the term Law appears, it is the term Torah instead, and hence includes the 10 commandments? This is most fascinating.
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I normally use the King James Bible, this is from the Hebrew Roots Bible and it makes a distinction between the Ten Commandments and the Priestly Law (Levetical Law) as indeed it should.
 
PS said:
That is a direct quote from the Hebrew Roots Bible.
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In other words, it's a commentary? That's not a good basis for doctrine. Unless there is good manuscript support for the word "Levitical" being in the text (and I'm not aware of any), it's an opinion.
 
Dino246 said:
In other words, it's a commentary? That's not a good basis for doctrine. Unless there is good manuscript support for the word "Levitical" being in the text (and I'm not aware of any), it's an opinion.
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It is a clarification.
 
PS said:
It is a clarification.
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Without textual or clear contextual support, it's an opinion only. I would suggest that it is actually an obfuscation, because it contradicts Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 3:10 and James 2:10-11.
 
Blik said:
Would you explain what you think it means that the law is fulfilled. It could mean that now the law is over and done with so forget all God says about it, and it could mean that Christ explains and is the end result of all the law, that through Christ we are forgiven our sins or?????
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The law being fulfilled means that when we come to Christ He is able to give us Rest from our work at the law, because He fulfilled it.

The law is only over and done with for those who have come to Christ. For all others who want to work at it is fully there in full force.

In other words, not one jot or tittle of the blessings or curses will fall from the law until a person comes to Christ and receives Rest from their work at it. Because it is those very blessings and curses that drive a person to their Saviour.
 
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PS said:
I normally use the King James Bible, this is from the Hebrew Roots Bible and it makes a distinction between the Ten Commandments and the Priestly Law (Levetical Law) as indeed it should.
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It makes a wrong distinction in order to continue to work at the 10 commandments.

Who was ever under "Levitical" law? Only the Levites were under the Levitical Law. If you want to try to separate it from all the rest of the law. But it isn't to be separated. Otherwise Paul would have been more specific on what Law he was talking about. Such as he did in 2 Corinthians 3.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

The people didn't receive a Levitical law. The levites received the Levitical law. The people received the whole law coming from the 10 commandments.
 
Grandpa said:
It makes a wrong distinction in order to continue to work at the 10 commandments.

Who was ever under "Levitical" law? Only the Levites were under the Levitical Law. If you want to try to separate it from all the rest of the law. But it isn't to be separated. Otherwise Paul would have been more specific on what Law he was talking about. Such as he did in 2 Corinthians 3.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

The people didn't receive a Levitical law. The levites received the Levitical law. The people received the whole law coming from the 10 commandments.
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The people were ruled by the Levitical Law and were subject to its punishments.

I. Laws on sacrifice (1:1–7:38)

A. Instructions for the laity on bringing offerings (1:1–6:7)
B. Instructions for the priests (6:1–7:38)
II. Institution of the priesthood (8:1–10:20)

A. Ordination of Aaron and his sons (ch. 8)
B. Aaron makes the first sacrifices (ch. 9)
C. Judgement on Nadab and Abihu (ch. 10)
III. Uncleanliness and its treatment (11:1–15:33)

A. Unclean animals (ch. 11)
B. Uncleanliness caused by childbirth (ch. 12)
C. Unclean diseases (ch. 13)
D. Cleansing of diseases (ch. 14)
E. Unclean discharges (ch. 15)
IV. Day of Atonement: purification of the tabernacle from the effects of uncleanliness and sin (ch. 16)

V. Prescriptions for practical holiness (the Holiness Code, chs. 17–26)

A. Sacrifice and food (ch. 17)
B. Sexual behaviour (ch. 18)
C. Neighbourliness (ch.19)
D. Grave crimes (ch. 20)
E. Rules for priests (ch. 21)
F. Rules for eating sacrifices (ch. 22)
G. Festivals (ch.23)
H. Rules for the tabernacle (ch. 24:1–9)
I. Blasphemy (ch. 24:10–23)
J. Sabbatical and Jubilee years (ch. 25)
K. Exhortation to obey the law: blessing and curse (ch. 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Leviticus

None of this is applicable to none Jews and never has been.
 
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