Third heaven is "heaven" the place where saved believers' soulss go when they die.
Second heaven is the space
First heaven is the one we see looking up.
Heaven when?
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Second heaven is the space
First heaven is the one we see looking up.
Thank you all. A lot. It would seem that the exact wording of the Bible reflects sometimes subtle and sometimes less subtle variations across people and across times. I thefefore find it difficult to focus on such differences. Thank you all again
It wasn't Paul, he was talking of a man he knew that claimed he was caught up to God's heaven. He wasn't acknowledging it. 2 Cor. 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven."
I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.
Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.
Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."
All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet. Heb. 12 is just a reference to Mount Zion which is new Jerusalem, yet future. Heb. 11:40: "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." New Jerusalem is being prepared and is coming to earth with the "many mansions" that the father is preparing.
Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.
Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
From this, we can deduce nobody is in heaven and nobody is going there.
There is the great white throne judgementFrom this, we can deduce nobody is in heaven and nobody is going there.
There is the great white throne judgement
Which takes place on the new earth. Pictured in Isiah 65:
Isaiah 65:17-25 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
Absolutely. Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (who is in Heaven). To confirm this, study the death of Stephen and where his soul and spirit went the moment he was killed (Acts 7 and 8).
Oh yes for some reason I thought it was Paul himself, not it was someone he knew.It wasn't Paul, he was talking of a man he knew that claimed he was caught up to God's heaven. He wasn't acknowledging it. 2 Cor. 12:2 "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven."
I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.
Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.
Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."
All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet. Heb. 12 is just a reference to Mount Zion which is new Jerusalem, yet future. Heb. 11:40: "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." New Jerusalem is being prepared and is coming to earth with the "many mansions" that the father is preparing.
Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.
Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
From this, we can deduce nobody is in heaven and nobody is going there.
Nobody is in heaven...yet Jesus is in heaven right now is ye not? Preparing a place for us.
It does say Stephen fell asleep. I think for a believer, death is like a sleep and upon waking up (resurrection) we will be in heaven. Also thessalonians says the dead (all those who sleep in christ) will rise first. When we sleep its like a rest and God will give us sweet dreams.
Another thing Ive heard, and not sure its biblical but people say it a lot..there is no rest for the wicked! They will be rolling over in their graves, they dont RIP. They are restless and they could be ghosts haunting people.
Yes, Jesus is in heaven but Him only: John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Yes, the wicked will not have rest, but this speaks while they are still living. Rev. 14:9-11 "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
The smoke of their torment speaks of God's memorial of the event.
Sleep is just a metaphor for death, since he was killed and buried. But what did Stephen say regarding his spirit, and where did it go after death? That's the point.
Soul Sleep is false doctrine.
