Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Let me just say this as easy as I possibly can....DO NOT address ME if you cannot ACCURATELY quote me without embellishing what I SAY.....I absolutely HAVE NO USE for people that cannot engage me truthfully....and or those who EMBELLISH what I SAY and what I SAID is EXACTLY what JESUS SAID.

I SAID--->The tax collectors and prostitutes enter because they BELIEVED HIM........

YOU embellished it to--->But now you say the first son is the tax collectors and prostitutes that believed and were saved

SO what are you saying, that the first son does not represent the tax collectors and prostitutes? Because other than that possible difference, both statements are identical.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Fran......I will post the IM and exactly what it said......

WHO?.............WHO is giving you a hard time? I will BLAST THEM

I will NOT say who sent this......out of respect for them.....IT IS OBVIOUS who sent the IM that initiated this response because YOU are the only one I have been engaging for almost an hour......

LOL
Don't worry Dcon.
No need to post it.
I can take blastings....
more than you'll ever know.
Let's see.....
who uses that phrase?



Good Night.

 

[TruthTalk]

Well, I guess you were well-trained by @dcontroversal !

Can't answer a question...Just don't answer it!

"Turn off the faucet Fran"

Proverbs 27:15,16
15) A constant dripping on a day of steady rain And a contentious woman are alike; 16) restraining her is like holding back the wind or grasping oil with one’s right hand.…

​

 

[GodsGrace101]

Turn off the faucet Fran

Proverbs 15:16
A constant dripping on a day of steady rain And a contentious woman are alike;

16restraining her is like holding back the wind or grasping oil with one’s right hand.…

​

Restrain your wife my dear man.
I am NOT your wife.
Happily for me.
Unhappily for HER.

 

[dcontroversal]

my last post was confusing, so I will summarize it.

The two sons in Matthew 21 received the call to go work in the vineyard. The first son said he would not go, but went. The second son said he would go but did not.

Context seems to indicate that "entering the vineyard" equals entering the Kingdom of God by repenting at the preaching of John. (verses 31-32)

Both were represented in the parables as sons, but not all of them had repented and entered the kingdom of God. The second son did not repent. He did not enter. He did not hear. Yet he is called a son. SO your assumption that the word "son" always has to mean a saved person, ie son by birth, is not correct. It does not always mean that, as seen here.

The Prodigal son parable is very similar to this parable. Luke 15:1-3 strongly indicate that the prodigal represents INITIALLY the publicans and sinners, and secondarily anyone who is sinful and comes to Jesus for salvation, the elder son represents those who grumble at their return.

So, if the prodigal son represents the publicans and sinners, it cannot be said that they began with a starting point of being saved. They were not saved until they came to Jesus. and the prodigal represents one who coming from a life of sin comes to Jesus and is saved. That is how it is always used in the Bible, albeit it is only used one time. SO to ask, "would the prodigal have ceased to be a son if he had died as a prodigal" is a moot question, because NOWHERE in scripture do we see the prodigal son dying in his sins. We see the prodigal is a sinner saved by grace.

And nowhere in scripture do we see the prodigal failing to return, because EVERY place the prodigal is mentioned, HE RETURNS>

Now the scribes and Pharisees, elder son, reaction is left open. They may return or they may not return. Jesus is opening the door for them, will they go through it? Some will and some wont

So it is even today...

Was the Prodigal the SON of his father before he got his inheritance?
Was the Prodigal the SON of his father while sleeping in the pig pen?
Was the Prodigal the SON of his father when he decided to return to his father?
Was the Prodigal the Son of his Father when his father received him back?

When was he not a SON? What FATHER gives an inheritance to a person that is not their SON or even before they are adopted as SONS....and by the way...have you ever considered and studied the rights of an adopted son in the bible?

 

[Macabeus]

Was the Prodigal the SON of his father before he got his inheritance?
Was the Prodigal the SON of his father while sleeping in the pig pen?
Was the Prodigal the SON of his father when he decided to return to his father?
Was the Prodigal the Son of his Father when his father received him back?

When was he not a SON? What FATHER gives an inheritance to a person that is not their SON or even before they are adopted as SONS....and by the way...have you ever considered and studied the rights of an adopted son in the bible?

Was the second son in Matthew 21:28-32 all the things? Yay or nay? I say NAY.

The publicans and sinners were lost and dead until they came to Jesus. And a careful reading of Luke 15:1-3 reveals that the parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, and prodigal son was referring initially and contextually to them, that is the interpretation, though by application it can apply to any one who comes to or returns to Jesus. Your interpretation is fine as an application, but an accurate interpretation it is not.

...and these have already been answered. READ THIS BELOW

the prodigal represents one who coming from a life of sin comes to Jesus. That is how it is always used in the Bible, albeit it is only used one time. SO to ask, "would the prodigal have ceased to be a son if he had died in his sins" is a moot question, because NOWHERE in scripture do we see the prodigal son dying in his sins. Have you seen it anywhere, because I HAVENT We always see the prodigal coming home. Why are you adding hypotheticals that God did not deem necessary to add to His Holy Word.

And nowhere in scripture do we see the prodigal failing to return, because EVERY place the prodigal is mentioned, HE RETURNS>

SO what use have I for hypotheticals that HAVE NO SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION. I base my theology on scripture, not on what I seem to see happening around me.

Cheers

 

[UnderGrace]

@mailmandan

If you want to start a thread on 2 peter 2:20-22 I'd be very happy to discuss it with you.
We've been through it before and what you do is post Greek which does NOT help any.
It's simple and direct and required no extra knowledge that the normal person does not have.

I don't get replies on here so it's useless to be here.
@UnderGrace never answered my post no. 83,487.
@TruthTalk never answered my post no. 83,503, the one where I listed 14 verses.

I guess they're not able to...or they'd answer.

See you around MMD!

You know I do work for a living!!

 

[TruthTalk]

Restrain your wife my dear man.
"I am NOT your wife."
Happily for me.
Unhappily for HER.

The proverb in my bible said "Woman" not wife, and you are illustrative of this very proverb right now, thanks

Again: "Turn off the faucet Fran"

Proverbs 27:15,16
15) A constant dripping on a day of steady rain "And a contentious 'woman' are alike;" 16) restraining her is like holding back the wind or grasping oil with one’s right hand.…

 

[Macabeus]

Brief summary

a. Did the prodigal son cease to be a son?

No, but in the original meaning and intent of the parable, neither the prodigal nor the elder represented a saved person who left and then came back. Neither son in Luke 15 and neither son in Matthew 21 represented saved, born again people who backslid and then came back.

b. If a prodigal dies in his sins, will he cease to be a son?

This question misses the point, because in this parable, the prodigal BY DEFINITION represents a wayward sinner returning to the Lord. Nowhere in scripture does the prodigal fail to return or die in their sins. Why make up hypothetical questions that oppose what the scripture says.

 

[UnderGrace]

Scripture is not even posted...

 

[Historyanswers]

Give me the post number where you posted about the irrevocable gifts and calling....
Thanks.

29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Romans 11

 

[Macabeus]

Was the second son in Matthew 21:28-32 all the things? Yay or nay? I say NAY.

The publicans and sinners were lost and dead until they came to Jesus. And a careful reading of Luke 15:1-3 reveals that the parable of the lost sheep, lost coin, and prodigal son was referring initially and contextually to them, that is the interpretation, though by application it can apply to any one who comes to or returns to Jesus. Your interpretation is fine as an application, but an accurate interpretation it is not.

...and these have already been answered. READ THIS BELOW

the prodigal represents one who coming from a life of sin comes to Jesus. That is how it is always used in the Bible, albeit it is only used one time. SO to ask, "would the prodigal have ceased to be a son if he had died in his sins" is a moot question, because NOWHERE in scripture do we see the prodigal son dying in his sins. Have you seen it anywhere, because I HAVENT We always see the prodigal coming home. Why are you adding hypotheticals that God did not deem necessary to add to His Holy Word.

And nowhere in scripture do we see the prodigal failing to return, because EVERY place the prodigal is mentioned, HE RETURNS>

SO what use have I for hypotheticals that HAVE NO SCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION. I base my theology on scripture, not on what I seem to see happening around me.

Cheers

Sorry, I forgot to close the loop

Can the prodigal son parable apply to backslidden Christians?

Absolutely, I know this both from scripture and experience, though scripture is the part that has the authority.

Did the prodigal Christian cease to be a son while he was in his sins?

No, AS EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THAT THEY RETURNED TO THE LORD. PRODIGAL SONS RETURN.

If the prodigal son died in his sins, would he be lost?

Seeing that the prodigal represents BY DEFINITION a wayward sinner coming home, you would have to create a new category to ask that question. A category that is not present in the text that we are discussing. SO it would be a category error to ask that question

 

[Macabeus]

29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Romans 11

Yes, praise God for that.

Romans 11: 8 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[Historyanswers]

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11 The Remnant of Israel
Isaiah 49
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

 

[Macabeus]

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11 The Remnant of Israel
isa 49
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

Hallelujah and amen

 

[dcontroversal]

29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Romans 11

Yeah.....I quote verses all the time and she states that I never post scripture......

 

[Macabeus]

[QUOTE="dcontroversal, [/QUOTE]

in case you missed it...

a. Did the prodigal son cease to be a son?

No, but in the original meaning and intent of the parable, neither the prodigal nor the elder represented a saved person who left and then came back. Neither son in Luke 15 and neither son in Matthew 21 represented saved, born again people who backslid and then came back.

b. If a prodigal dies in his sins, will he cease to be a son?

This question misses the point, because in this parable, the prodigal BY DEFINITION represents a wayward sinner returning to the Lord. Nowhere in scripture does the prodigal fail to return or die in their sins.

c. Can the prodigal son parable apply to backslidden Christians?

Absolutely, I know this both from scripture and experience, though scripture is the part that has the authority.

d. Did the prodigal Christian cease to be a son while he was in his sins?

No, AS EVIDENCED BY THE FACT THAT THEY RETURNED TO THE LORD. PRODIGAL SONS RETURN.

e. If the prodigal son died in his sins, would he be lost?

Seeing that the prodigal represents BY DEFINITION a wayward sinner coming home, you would have to create a new category to ask that question. A category that is not present in the text that we are discussing. SO it would be a category error to ask that question

Does that cover everything for you? If so, be blessed.

 

[Historyanswers]

c. Can the prodigal son parable apply to backslidden Christians?

Pentecost happen after jesus christ raised from the dead, , went up in the cloud ,so one would have to ask ,before pentecost, how can you see pentecost at this point in history from this parable. one of the fact to being christain is do you believe he raised from the dead etc

 

[Macabeus]

c. Can the prodigal son parable apply to backslidden Christians?

Pentecost happen after jesus christ raised from the dead, , went up in the cloud ,so one would have to ask ,before pentecost, how can you see pentecost at this point in history from this parable. one of the fact to being christain is do you believe he raised from the dead etc

That's actually a fair question. Notice I said can APPLY to backslidden Christians. Interpretation vs application.

In other words, in the original meaning and intent it does not refer to Christians ( I'm glad you picked up on this, many around here failed to recognize this essential point) but in application we can say that at times Christians may become prodigal and return to the Lord and be welcomed with open arms. Of course we say this to encourage the discouraged and fallen, not to encourage laxity.

 

[PennEd]

"]I have nothing left to say that has not already been said, good bye.

​

1 Thessalonians 4:11
and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you,

[/QUOTE]

Excellent post!
If you don't feed the one who lives to cause dissension, with a false works gospel, the one starves of lack of attention and withers away.

A different spirit guides this one, and this is how it should be understood:

Galatians 1:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be [a]accursed.