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Rev. 1 . INTRODCTION-
Rev. 2 - 3. IN SPIRIT + 4 - 5. In Vision on EARTH
Rev. 2 - 3. IN SPIRIT + 4 - 5. In Vision on EARTH
(Rev. 6 to Rev. 20 SEVEN THUNDERS) JOHN DO’S not see the NEXT
SEVEN THUNDERS, JOHN is told not write and to SEAL UP the LETTERS TO THE SEVEN CHURCHS, write them not?
SEVEN THUNDERS, JOHN is told not write and to SEAL UP the LETTERS TO THE SEVEN CHURCHS, write them not?
If John is told not to Write? And He told it in the Method? Did he obey Christ?
If John was told not to write . Where did I get This Chart below?
S
Friend, Christ prayed, "I do not pray that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil one." Christ prays to keep His Church from evil, and from the evil one, not that He wants to take them out of the world 7 years before the Second Coming. Without the presence of Christ's Church on earth until the day or hour of the second coming, there would be no one to preach the Holy Gospel of Christ and to administer the sacrament of the altar, of the precious body and precious blood of our LORD GOD and Saviour, Jesus Christ, in the most holy Eucharist. The Eucharist will be offered until the very day of our Lord's return. The Eucharist "shows our Lord's death, until He come." So there will always be a Christian Church on earth, not merely 144,000 Jewish evangelists. The great tribulation to come will come upon the whole world, the Church, Israel, and all the unbelieving nations. God is no respecter of persons, and so, He said, "In this world, ye shall have tribulation." Don't expect any alleviation of sufferings before the second coming of Christ. In Erie Scott H.
L
This is pretty much fiction: in the first half of the week, God will have 144,000 Jews. In the second half of the week, God will have the two witnesses. So please don't say there would be no one. It is simply not true.
Why not go to the classic rapture verse in 1 thes, and see when Paul says the rapture will take place? Since he is the only New Testament writer to have the revelation of the rapture, he should now when. In fact, he does, and he tells us. If we keep reading into 1 thes. 5, Paul writes a good paradigm: there are two groups of people that have two different outcomes when a "suddenly" happens. Paul tells us those in darkness get the "sudden Destruction" of the beginning of the Day of the Lord, while we get "salvation" are get to "live together with Him." This is almost what he wrote in the previous chapter: "and so shall we ever be with the Lord." So Paul has not left off teaching about the rapture; he went on to tell us it comes one instant before the sudden destruction that comes upon all those in darkness. Where can we locate this in the book of Revelation? It is at the 6th seal: the world wide earthquake is Paul's "sudden destruction." It catches everyone by surprise. But note, both it at the rapture come when people are saying "peace and safety." You know, sort of like a day like TODAY.
If one understands Revelation chronology, the 6th seal is the rapture first, then the SIGNS for the day of the Lord. THAT day, and the 70th week of Daniel will begin at the 7th seal.
Coop
Why not go to the classic rapture verse in 1 thes, and see when Paul says the rapture will take place? Since he is the only New Testament writer to have the revelation of the rapture, he should now when. In fact, he does, and he tells us. If we keep reading into 1 thes. 5, Paul writes a good paradigm: there are two groups of people that have two different outcomes when a "suddenly" happens. Paul tells us those in darkness get the "sudden Destruction" of the beginning of the Day of the Lord, while we get "salvation" are get to "live together with Him." This is almost what he wrote in the previous chapter: "and so shall we ever be with the Lord." So Paul has not left off teaching about the rapture; he went on to tell us it comes one instant before the sudden destruction that comes upon all those in darkness. Where can we locate this in the book of Revelation? It is at the 6th seal: the world wide earthquake is Paul's "sudden destruction." It catches everyone by surprise. But note, both it at the rapture come when people are saying "peace and safety." You know, sort of like a day like TODAY.
If one understands Revelation chronology, the 6th seal is the rapture first, then the SIGNS for the day of the Lord. THAT day, and the 70th week of Daniel will begin at the 7th seal.
Coop
D
So many people are misled in our world, we MUST be in end times. The church is BROKEN into a million different beliefs, and yet it still holds strong with the core beliefs, at least. Satan still tries to destroy us in every little argument possible, and it surely works on this website. I've never seen so many Christians call out each other's faith in such mean and evil ways as CC.com. Some of you truly don't know scripture, you don't know the Lord, you don't know truth, and you don't WANT to.
Stop quoting what some preacher told you with his false doctrine, and read the bible with clear eyes. I pray that the Lord will open some of your eyes, and really make you WANT to know the truth, rather than being told it by someone else, who you never tested with the Word like the Lord told you to do.
I won't add what belief I have. I simply hope some of you will open your eyes. This is a sad state of affairs to be a Christian in today's world. We can only hope that Christ comes soon.
Stop quoting what some preacher told you with his false doctrine, and read the bible with clear eyes. I pray that the Lord will open some of your eyes, and really make you WANT to know the truth, rather than being told it by someone else, who you never tested with the Word like the Lord told you to do.
I won't add what belief I have. I simply hope some of you will open your eyes. This is a sad state of affairs to be a Christian in today's world. We can only hope that Christ comes soon.
S
Dear friends, The rapture of the church before the tribulation is a great myth. It will not happen before the tribulations to come.
"Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
"By CLAY EVANS, Scripps Howard News Service, April 15, 2004
("The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation", by Barbara R. Rossing. Westview, 212 p., $24.)
"Since 1995, Tyndale House has sold an astonishing 50 million copies of books in the "Left Behind" series by the *Rev. Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.
"The novels purport to describe in fictional -- but - literal terms the Apocalypse, reign of the Antichrist, and return of Jesus to rule Earth. The final volume in the 12-volume series, "Glorious Appearing", has just been released.
"At the heart of the novels is LaHaye's occult interpretation of the exact "script" of the coming End Times, in which faithful Christians will be "raptured" -- taken up to haven -- before the rule of the Antichrist, good and evil will wage a seven-year battle, and finally, Christ will return.
"Many believers have adopted these fictional books as a stand-in for biblical truth. But what most "Left Behind" readers -- as well as those disturbed by the implications of the books -- probably don't know is that LaHaye's grand vision teeters not on sound theology, but an obscure, contortionist, 19th-century interpretation of the Book of Revelation.
"Now come Lutheran minister -- and New Testament scholars -- **Barbara R. Rossing with a long-overdue response to the simplistic "prophecy" expressed in "Left Behind" and, frighteningly, adopted as fact by so many. "The Rapture Exposed" convincingly debunks the methodology of "end times" philosophy and shows why all this is more than just a theological spat in our war-torn world.
"The trouble is, the interpretation of the Bible on which these books are based is also fiction", Rossing writes. "Today's end-times writings draw on a method for looking at prophecy that was invented less than two hundred years ago and, by now, is a dominant American view.
"In this system, the Bible -- particularly the books of Daniel and Revelation -- spell out in detail God's pre-ordained script of predictions for the end of the world."
"But as Rossing writes, "The Rapture is a racket."
"The "system" was born of a young Scottish girl's vision in 1830, later fleshed out by a late-19th-century British preacher, John Nelson Darby. Darby conjured up the idea of Rapture based on scriptural texts that, read by most, indicate no such thing, and he devised the concept of "dispensations" -- distinct epochs in God's time, with different rules, to account for biblical inconsistencies and, shall we say, ease of prophecy.
"In 1970, America got its own Rapture hawker in Hal Lindsey, who penned the best-selling "The Late, great Planet Earth." But as Rossing points out, over the years Lindsey has had to quietly "adjust" his own firm "prophecies" as the world has changed; where once Russia, then "red" China, represented the forces of evil, now it's Islam.
"Rossing methodically, accessibly hammers away the shaky foundations of Rapture ideology, taking particular note of the kind of scriptural contortions it requires to remain standing and relying on original texts, in original languages, to booster her argument.
"Should anyone care about what a bunch of true believers espouse? Yes, because there is a sinister political subtext to end-time religious belief: Rapture subscribers believe that the Jews must control all of their original territory -- extending, some say, all the way into Iraq -- before the temple can be rebuilt and Jesus can return. They welcome conflict in the Middle East and dismiss Palestinians (including the many Christians) as little more than human chaff.
"... the new movement of "Christian Zionism" is a militant all-or-nothing kind of Zionism that scripts Israel as a player in the dispensationalist Christian end0times drama in a way that baffles even Israelis", writes Rossing, who is a traditional Zionist who supports states for both Jews and Palestinians.
"The latter third of the book is aimed at believers who may be wondering how to counter Rapture theology and work for peace. But "The Rapture Exposed" should be read by anyone who wonders how to counter the simple-minded assertions that LaHaye knows God's precise "script" for the future, or how to debunk the decidedly un-Christian, and ultimately anti-Semitic, agenda of right-wing end-timers bent on promoting Armageddon in the Middle East. Rossing has given us a clear, intelligent, engaging - and deeply Christian -- map to follow.
"My only regret is that this book won't find its way into the hands of nearly enough "Left Behind" fans, at least some of whom might question their own beliefs when confronted with the cynical manipulations of end-timers.
Contact Clay Evans of the Daily Camera in Boulder, CO, at DailyCamera.com
*The word Revered is used only once in the Bible -- where it refers to God Almighty. Here at s8int.com we do not refer to any man as "Reverend". Psa. 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend [is] his name.
** I Timothy 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over aman; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington
L
Readers, this first sentence of this post is MYTH. The pretrib rapture revelation was received by Paul and written in the book of 1st Thes. It is there for anyone to read. In chapter five Paul tells us clearly that while "they" - those in darkeness - get sudden destruction, we - those in the light - get salvation and get to LIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM. That is the rapture, plain and simple. So it comes instantly before the start of the Day of the Lord. In fact, it comes as the TRIGGER for that Day. A good student of the book of Revelation will know that the 70th week and the day of the Lord begin TOGETHER at the 7th seal. Therefore, the rapture will come BEFORE the 7th seal. In fact, the rapture is the FIRST EVENT of the 6th seal. Then God saw the church very shortly after, around the throne, in chapter 7.
This is BASIC TRUTH. Tim LaHaye's was and is correct on that point.
Coop
hi brother in christ, yes we will meet the lord in the air, there is a but, but only the little flock will
and they are them that are mentioned in mat.24:4o quote, then shall two be in the field : the one shall be
taken, and the other left. verse.41. two wemen shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken , and the other left. do you notice that they were taken sparingly? not the masses? well why is this?
these are the first fruits: lets go to rev. ch.7 . these are the 144000 specially chosen. lets go to rev. ch.14
verse 1. the lamb and the 144000 on mount zion. vers3. only they know the new song.
verse 4. they are virgins (they have never been deviled spiritually with other religions, and have never bowed
down, or kissed another god. so these are the minority that meet the lord in the air. now what about the
rest? they will have to go through the tribulation, rev.7:9 . these are the majority ,out of many nations,
clothed with white robes , they have washed them selfs clean by making the right choice during the trib.
by refusing to obey the fale prophet.mathew. 24;29 jesus said : immidiately AFTER THE TRIB. he will come.
what is so special about these 144000? rev.14:4 these are they which follow the lamb whither soever he
goes . how can you follow the lamb? they are the ones who trully seek the word , and found him ,by
seeking the scrb. and being revealed all the mysterys. so we have to go through the trib. iam sorry to break
the news . pre tribbers, are soothsayers , just making the flock feell good, cause they want the flock to,
come back with more next sunday. be carefull dont let them mesmorise you with their nice words
there is no substance in it , just wind that is what GOD says in jeremiah5: 12 and 13. verse 13. and the
prophets shall become WIND , andand the word is not in them . it was so then and it is worse now.
seek more and you will find the deep things of GOD. dont get the scribes and pharisees, involved in your search till next time ------wakeup
L
WAKEUP! If one is taken and one is left, that is 50%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But in saying that, Jesus was not giving us numbers. It was an example of how it would be. Indeed, there are husbands and wifes, one saved and the other not - and it that case, one will be taken and the other left behind. This is not a mystery: a 5th grader would understand this.
Sorry, Wakeup, but those that go up in the rapture are nowhere called "firstfruits." They are the BRIDE. That is what Jesus calls them, so that is good enough for me.
Again, did you not read that the 144.000 are JEWS or of Jacob, and 12,000 of each tribe? Only a beginning would even imagine that this was speaking of the church - for it CLEARLY is not. It is a different group. When the rapture takes place, THEN they will believe, but it will be too late for the rapture. So they are sealed for their protection during the trumpet judgments, then raptured to heaven. (I see no hint that they were martyred.) Neither is there even a hint that THEY meet the Lord in the air. You are mixing up the book! That is not allowed. GOD gave John his chronology.
You MISSED IT again: Rev. chapter 7 is before John has even began the 70th week. But they are sealed for the first half of the week.
And you MISSED IT yet again, because they are seen around the throne in heaven, BEFORE John ever gets to the "trib" as you called it - the last half of the week where Jesus said it would be "those days" of "great tribulation." The 144,000 are in heaven BEFORE "those days." Just so you know, John does not get to "those days" of GT until chapter 13. Chapter 12 hints of it, when the dragon goes after the woman and the remnant of her seed. It may take a while for the false prophet to show up. And the mark will not be enforced until the false prophet joins with the Beast.
I see you copied and pasted. Is this really something YOU wrote?
And you MISSED IT YET AGAIN, in not believing the TRUTH: Jesus is coming for His BRIDE before the week even begins. May I suggest you go back and read 1 Thes - all the way to the end? Paul gives us the timing in chapter 5. He confirms that in his second book of Thes - but few really understand that passage. Then, John PROVES it is pretrib in Rev. 6-7.
If you wish to tribulate, that is your choice. But for those that are WATCHING and believing in His pretrib coming, they will be caught up BEFORE the Beast is revealed. WE, the church, is the restraining force keeping him from being revealed. When the church has departed, THEN the 70th week can begin.
By the way, it is possible to be watching for His coming pretrib, when in your heart you believe you will see the Beast first? Always remember, Jesus is coming pretrib ONLY for those that are watching for His coming.
Is it possible that those believing they will see the "trib" will be left behind?
Coop
Sorry, Wakeup, but those that go up in the rapture are nowhere called "firstfruits." They are the BRIDE. That is what Jesus calls them, so that is good enough for me.
Again, did you not read that the 144.000 are JEWS or of Jacob, and 12,000 of each tribe? Only a beginning would even imagine that this was speaking of the church - for it CLEARLY is not. It is a different group. When the rapture takes place, THEN they will believe, but it will be too late for the rapture. So they are sealed for their protection during the trumpet judgments, then raptured to heaven. (I see no hint that they were martyred.) Neither is there even a hint that THEY meet the Lord in the air. You are mixing up the book! That is not allowed. GOD gave John his chronology.
You MISSED IT again: Rev. chapter 7 is before John has even began the 70th week. But they are sealed for the first half of the week.
And you MISSED IT yet again, because they are seen around the throne in heaven, BEFORE John ever gets to the "trib" as you called it - the last half of the week where Jesus said it would be "those days" of "great tribulation." The 144,000 are in heaven BEFORE "those days." Just so you know, John does not get to "those days" of GT until chapter 13. Chapter 12 hints of it, when the dragon goes after the woman and the remnant of her seed. It may take a while for the false prophet to show up. And the mark will not be enforced until the false prophet joins with the Beast.
I see you copied and pasted. Is this really something YOU wrote?
And you MISSED IT YET AGAIN, in not believing the TRUTH: Jesus is coming for His BRIDE before the week even begins. May I suggest you go back and read 1 Thes - all the way to the end? Paul gives us the timing in chapter 5. He confirms that in his second book of Thes - but few really understand that passage. Then, John PROVES it is pretrib in Rev. 6-7.
If you wish to tribulate, that is your choice. But for those that are WATCHING and believing in His pretrib coming, they will be caught up BEFORE the Beast is revealed. WE, the church, is the restraining force keeping him from being revealed. When the church has departed, THEN the 70th week can begin.
By the way, it is possible to be watching for His coming pretrib, when in your heart you believe you will see the Beast first? Always remember, Jesus is coming pretrib ONLY for those that are watching for His coming.
Is it possible that those believing they will see the "trib" will be left behind?
Coop
S
Dear friend, That is where you seem to already assume that the 70th week of Daniel has not already been fulfilled. What about the destruction of the Jewish temple of Jerusalem in 70 AD? Does not prophecy fulfill itself 40 years later (one generation after) Christ said the temple would be destroyed? Yes. Christ's words were fulfilled in the great tribulation of 70 AD. For more information see: Chilton, David. (1987). The Great Tribulation. Fort Worth, TX: Dominion Press. See: Chilton, David. (2006). The Days of Vengeance: An Exposition of the Book of Revelation. Horn Lake, MS: Dominion Press. See also: Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. The Beast of Revelation. ; Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation. See: GOOGLE ... Amazon.com God bless you; God grant you many many years. God save us all in Jesus' name; Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS Matthew 24:29-31 says that the rapture occurs, that is the gathering of the elect into heaven, after the tribulation of those days, which occurs when Christ comes again after the tribulation of those days. The very last great tribulation the greatest tribulation after all the great tribulations of the past are over. Take care!
