Is God that cruel?

[Endoscopy]

Did you ever figure out the definition of your Screen Name?

I picked that screen name because an endoscope is used by doctors during surgery. They make 4 seperate small holes in the skin. One has a air pump attached. One has the endoscope attached to the head of the surgeon inserted. Two on the sides are for the specially designed surgical tools to be inserted. The endoscope therefore looks under the surface of the body. So I try to look under the surface of issues.

I had surgery with this method. That's where I learned about an endoscope and later used it for my screen name.

 

[preston39]

God is love. He will not require anyone to burn forever in flames. Romans 6:23 says "the wages of sin is death" not eternal life in fire. None of us are immortal, we that have the HS have the promise of immortality. That only happens when we are resurrected. The dead are asleep awaiting the second resurrection for most. It is time to put the fairy tales to rest.

Suggest you not be led by fairy tail bibles.

 

[preston39]

I picked that screen name because an endoscope is used by doctors during surgery. They make 4 seperate small holes in the skin. One has a air pump attached. One has the endoscope attached to the head of the surgeon inserted. Two on the sides are for the specially designed surgical tools to be inserted. The endoscope therefore looks under the surface of the body. So I try to look under the surface of issues.

I had surgery with this method. That's where I learned about an endoscope and later used it for my screen name.

Endoscopy is the procedure name..... when when using the endoscope.

 

[Deade]

Please clarify. Are you saying there is no eternal damnation (lake of fire)? And if that is what you're saying, where do you believe the lost go after this life?

Now I will bring up the state of the dead. Are our dead forefathers, and other loved ones, dwelling in “heaven” at this time? Jesus said: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). But many say that Christ opened the graves after the crucifixion. I point you to the faith chapter of Hebrews 11. It tells us of how the patriarchs of old have not ascended to heaven. “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” (Hebrews 11:39,40). Mind you, this was written after the crucifixion. I urge you to also read the whole chapter of I Corinthians 15, but note especially the following verses: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming” (I Corinthians 15:20-23). Also consider the following: “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [Gr. precede] them which are asleep. But every man in his own order; Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord” (I Thessalonians 4:13-17). So are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

 

[mystic7]

How can they choose when God chose those by name for salvation before the world, and the salvation principle, came to exist?

Matthew 22:1-14 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.
Luke 15:1-7 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. And he spake this parable unto them, saying, What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Matthew 24:14 A.nd this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
One the bases on these two parables and prophecy I believe every person in their life time will be given the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for God is a Righteous God.
I believe every person who has not been saved; is a lost sheep
I view this as ones “called” For one day a lost soul will stand before God on Judgement Day to give account for his/her life: Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
It is one’s choice/free Will to accept or reject their “calling.
The “chosen” are those who accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Quoting: Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
This Word is for those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour
God Bless

 

[Endoscopy]

Endoscopy is the procedure name..... when when using the endoscope.

Correct. For me it is the action of looking closely at the issues.

 

[jaybird88]

Correct. For me it is the action of looking closely at the issues.

I used one to Shem up a fly wheel on a 79 J-10.

 

[Endoscopy]

If you agree with this, then you are a cultist as well . . .

Here's a very short list of earthly things that don't apply to anyone today. Gotta eliminate them from your doctrine

---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we are now part of Israel,
---the idea that Israel are God's chosen people at the present time (Israel was actually set aside in about 63AD),
---that prophecy is being fulfilled today
---that the present nation of Israel was the fulfillment of prophecy,
---and, of course, Satan's favorite, the Rapture

The Bible is the inspired word of God. It is applicable today. It takes discernment to keep everything in context. Your list has errors in it. For example Jesus stated the law is in effect until heaven and earth disappear. Maimonides counted 613 laws in the Torah. Understanding them and applying them is difficult.

Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

It is impossible for us to keep all of these laws. Breaking the least of them is the same in the God's eyes as breaking them all. We are at that point condemned. In the Old Testament yearly sacrifices were made preferably using an unblemished lamb to remove the years sin from us. Jesus by living a sinless life became the Unblemished Lamb of God whose sacrifice allows us the ability to accept the free gift of grace through faith in Jesus to remove the penalty of sin from us. Woe to those who reject this free gift. They will be judged by the law and then be condemned. I give thanks to God for this free gift. The fact it is a free gift is a stumbling block for those who think salvation has to be earned. Too many don't understand the relationship of faith and works. Works doesn't save but as James stated by his works he demonstrates his faith. In referring to wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus said by their fruits (works) you shall know them. Therefore a person's works show whether or not they come from faith in Jesus. The quote that comes to mind is by their actions you will know them. Do their actions conform to their words?

 

[Endoscopy]

I used one to Shem up a fly wheel on a 79 J-10.

ROFL
So how did you get ahold of one? It is an expensive piece of medical equipment.

 

[Crustyone]

Now I will bring up the state of the dead. Are our dead forefathers, and other loved ones, dwelling in “heaven” at this time? Jesus said: “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). But many say that Christ opened the graves after the crucifixion. I point you to the faith chapter of Hebrews 11. It tells us of how the patriarchs of old have not ascended to heaven. “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.” (Hebrews 11:39,40). Mind you, this was written after the crucifixion. I urge you to also read the whole chapter of I Corinthians 15, but note especially the following verses: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming” (I Corinthians 15:20-23). Also consider the following: “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [Gr. precede] them which are asleep. But every man in his own order; Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: And so shall we ever be with the Lord” (I Thessalonians 4:13-17). So are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

I would like to add that those who go to Hell (the Lake of Fire) will not suffer there forever. They will be burned and be there forever, but after their punishment time is met they will die. We will see corpses (dead bodies) in Hell when we go to worship the Lord.
Isaiah 66:23-24 23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the Lord. 24 “They will go out and observe the corpses of those who rebelled against me, for the maggots that eat them will not die, and the fire that consumes them will not die out. All people will find the sight abhorrent.” (From Net Bible)
Also the parable of the Unmerciful Servant describes a time of punishment for a slave and Jesus said that it would be like that in Heaven. I assume he meant in the afterlife.

 

[Deade]

I would like to add that those who go to Hell (the Lake of Fire) will not suffer there forever. They will be burned and be there forever, but after their punishment time is met they will die. We will see corpses (dead bodies) in Hell when we go to worship the Lord.
Isaiah 66:23-24 23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the Lord. 24 “They will go out and observe the corpses of those who rebelled against me, for the maggots that eat them will not die, and the fire that consumes them will not die out. All people will find the sight abhorrent.” (From Net Bible)
Also the parable of the Unmerciful Servant describes a time of punishment for a slave and Jesus said that it would be like that in Heaven. I assume he meant in the afterlife.

True, that passage in Isaiah 66:23, 24 is a picture of a future memorial, like a filming. Similar wording of unquenchable fire and undying worms is found in the gospels. This is also pictured in Rev. 20:10 (a memorial) as Ezekiel 28:18, 19 states Satan will be brought to ashes to never be anymore.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

But first let me ask you...what do you think is God's purpose..why did he created us?

My understanding is that we were created to show God's Glory. We are to reflect His glory. That is our ultimate purpose for existing - To reflect God's glory.

Where mankind has went off the rails is because all have choosen to seek their own glory.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Because..it has more sense to me...and no one could convince me otherwise...they don't have any argumenst against it

Reincarnation is a concept rooted in self-glory and self-seeking. If you don't obtain glory in this current life, you get another try at it in the next life.... You keep re-living over and over until you get it right. The problem is that you will NEVER get it right. Reincarnation is the same concept as Hell. You are stuck with yourself and your own destructive, self-seeking ways for the rest of eternity.

 

[MikkoAinasoja]

God offers mercy for sinners who repent and refuse the life of sin. God is righteous, and you will do wisely if you don't doubt his righteous will.

Fear of the God is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[Crustyone]

True, that passage in Isaiah 66:23, 24 is a picture of a future memorial, like a filming. Similar wording of unquenchable fire and undying worms is found in the gospels. This is also pictured in Rev. 20:10 (a memorial) as Ezekiel 28:18, 19 states Satan will be brought to ashes to never be anymore.

Reading the entirety of Ezekiel 28 leads me to believe that the author is talking about the king of Tyre who will, by what it seems to say, spontaneously combust and burn up. It says it will happen in front of kings, but I think it is symbolic, and just means that other kings will get word of what happened to him. The previous chapter is a lament for the city of Tyre. After the king's destruction it tells of the destruction of Sidon and I am not positive, but these may be occurrences that will happen just before the Lord's return.

 

[Deade]

Reading the entirety of Ezekiel 28 leads me to believe that the author is talking about the king of Tyre who will, by what it seems to say, spontaneously combust and burn up. It says it will happen in front of kings, but I think it is symbolic, and just means that other kings will get word of what happened to him. The previous chapter is a lament for the city of Tyre. After the king's destruction it tells of the destruction of Sidon and I am not positive, but these may be occurrences that will happen just before the Lord's return.

The King of Tyre, right? Then explain the plain language in the following:

Eze. 28:13, 14 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

The whole Bible is not symbolic, sometimes it says just what it means.

 

[miknik5]

What do you think is the purpose of creation?

To give praise and glory to God

 

[Endoscopy]

I would like to add that those who go to Hell (the Lake of Fire) will not suffer there forever. They will be burned and be there forever, but after their punishment time is met they will die. We will see corpses (dead bodies) in Hell when we go to worship the Lord.
Isaiah 66:23-24 23 From one month to the next and from one Sabbath to the next, all people will come to worship me,” says the Lord. 24 “They will go out and observe the corpses of those who rebelled against me, for the maggots that eat them will not die, and the fire that consumes them will not die out. All people will find the sight abhorrent.” (From Net Bible)
Also the parable of the Unmerciful Servant describes a time of punishment for a slave and Jesus said that it would be like that in Heaven. I assume he meant in the afterlife.

ROFL
That is only one view. Another view is everlasting torment!

 

[miknik5]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

God provided the “refuge”. If someone prefers “another way” then they have remsin

So what do you think is the purpose of creation?

Again, the purpose of creation is stated in revelation. It’s to give glory to GOD

 

[Endoscopy]

The King of Tyre, right? Then explain the plain language in the following:

Eze. 28:13, 14 "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

The whole Bible is not symbolic, sometimes it says just what it means.

Most of the Bible plainly states what it means. The two symbolic books are Daniel and Revelation. Daniel states twice in the last chapter that it is hidden until the end times. Revelation is written in the same way as Daniel. Today we have seen a few things come to pass like the statue in Daniel but most is still shrouded from us.