Is God that cruel?

[Lillywolf]

You know what should worry us more than changing someone's mind? That some day we might get to the point where we're unwilling to change ours.

It all boils down to . . . "Daddy! I really want to go to hell! Please?"

God is just giving them what they choose.

Because God opened it to receive them after first creating it just for the Devil?

 

[OneFaith]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

There's a difference between punishment and discipline. Punishment is focused on the person giving the punishment- it is a sentencing, a judgement, a satisfied revenge for the person doing the punishing. Discipline focuses on the one receiving, not the one giving. Discipline is training, encouraging, and warning someone to make better choices. As a parent we come from the mindframe of a disciplinarian, so it is shocking because we are thinking "What kind of discipline is eternal hell?"

God is our Father, and the bible says that He disciplines those that He accepts as a son or daughter. But those sentenced to hell are not His sons and daughters. They are those who would not accept His correction. Those who after many tests decided they don't want to be holy and good (mourning the Holy Spirit). How can you spend an eternity with a holy God if you dispise holiness? They are to be punished with everlasting fire for dispising holiness and embracing evil.

 

[RickyZ]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

Actually, look at it this way:

Suppose I built a resort for the homeless. All I asked for them to enter was to stop and say thank you on the way in the door. That's it. Just acknowledge what i am doing and you're in. Tell me to kiss off and you can go sit on the curb.

Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit on the curb?

 

[garee]

People who claim sola scriptura need the creeds to explain to them what the Bible says.

I don't think they understand what "sola scriptura" means . . .

What do you think it means and can you show us an example of it doing its work?

 

[Suzy37]

So you believe in reincarnation?

...

Is point 2 & 3 your belief? If so, are you a Calvinist?
Just getting the question out of the way before it becomes an accusation. [/QUOTE

He didnt create us to live one life The Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Gods Plan of salvation gives those who have never had a real chance to know God or have been so deceived they had no chance an opportunity to be resurrected and given that chance to know Him ,to live a life out and have that chance

 

[CharliRenee]

Nope!!

I pray for people I know who deny God, refuse God, claim He does not exist "that whatever it take God, make this person know You are real and the only one who can bring healing, restoration, salvation"..

Is my prayer cruel, when you consider a person could lose family members, lose the ability to walk, lose friends, become the epitome of hopelessness, end up in jail/prison, anything that seems harsh and bad can be added here in order to wake these people up to believe in God?

I believe my prayer is on the same line as God casting a sinner into the Lake of Fire, because ultimately, my prayer is the same as how God will do anything to ensure no one goes to eternal damnation. He died for them! He proved He does not want them there. But as a sovereign God, He will not interfere in a person's personal choice to deny Him and walk away from Him.

I so love how you put this...

He died for them! He proved He does not want them there

 

[Absolutely]

Actually, look at it this way:

Suppose I built a resort for the homeless. All I asked for them to enter was to stop and say thank you on the way in the door. That's it. Just acknowledge what i am doing and you're in. Tell me to kiss off and you can go sit on the curb.

Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit on the curb?

Well, except there is a operating table
In the foyer involving a heart transplant. Thats why all in the room are acting different. They submitted to being transformed or born again.
" ....the old things past away..."

 

[garee]

Actually, look at it this way:

Suppose I built a resort for the homeless. All I asked for them to enter was to stop and say thank you on the way in the door. That's it. Just acknowledge what i am doing and you're in. Tell me to kiss off and you can go sit on the curb.

Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit on the curb?

It would have to do on how a persons reckons what they call free will?

 

[RickyZ]

Yes, you have the free will to say thanks and enter, or to say kiss off and sit on the curb. Totally a free will choice.

 

[Lillywolf]

Yes, you have the free will to say thanks and enter, or to say kiss off and sit on the curb. Totally a free will choice.

One does so because God's words do not resonate as truth, or they do. God is sovereign.
By all that that means and as purposed.

 

[Crustyone]

Can you see those passages I quoted?
Can you see that it's 100% different than anything in the other 59 books?
Your quote of 1Cor 15 is meaningless. During Acts, no one knew about the dispensation of the mystery, which changes everything for Gentiles.
I don't even think it's 1%. More ike .1%, 1 per 1000. The remainder, I think, will be on the New Earth.

I've spent the last 30 years trying is convince people to see it, so they too will go to heaven. It's not for me, it's for them. To me and all that see it, it's as plain as the nose on your face. The first thing people say after seeing it is, "I can't believe most people can't see it"

Maybe God only wants a very limited amount of people up there. We are predestined though His foreknowledge.

Here's a very short list of earthly things that don't apply to anyone today. Gotta eliminate them from your doctrine

---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we are now part of Israel,
---the idea that Israel are God's chosen people at the present time (Israel was actually set aside in about 63AD),
---that prophecy is being fulfilled today
---that the present nation of Israel was the fulfillment of prophecy,
---and, of course, Satan's favorite, the Rapture

If you really believe all of this, I feel sorry for you. Jesus did and promoted a lot of this. One thing I will answer from scripture itself. The law is relevant today. Matthew 5:17-18 (17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.) [From the New International Version (NAV) bible]

 

[Crustyone]

The Calling for every person that has lived since 64AD is the Heavenly Places, Far above the Starry Heavens, in the Heaven of Heavens, where Christ ascended to and now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20 (Christ), Eph 2:6 (Us - Same place). This is not found in the OT, the Gospels, or Acts. It is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. Everything in those 7 books is part of a Mystery that was hid in God since the world began, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, and was revealed to Paul after the end of Acts, Eph 3:3.
Eph 1:20
"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, "
Eph 2:6
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: "
Eph 3:9
And to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26
"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: "
Eph 3:3
"How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; "

We Gentiles, who God foresaw that we would want to SEE the Hope of our calling, were chosen since before the world began, Eph 1:4. Our citizenship is in Heaven, Phil 3:20.

Eph 1:4
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
Phil 3:20 ESV
"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

This is totally unassociated from Israel. It's 100% Gentile plus those few Jews who Have accepted Christ. No Jew in the Bible is ever said to have a chance to go to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people, The Gentiles are a Heavenly people. In vs 2 below we are told basically to ignore things on the earth. That includes anything and everything associated with earthly Israel. In vs 4, when Christ appears in Glory, which is above the Heavens, Ps 8:1, we will be there with Him. The is called the "Appearing", the "epiphaneia", 2Tim 4:1, 8, Titus 2:13. This is not the Rapture, the parousia. In fact, the word parousia doesn't appear in the after-Acts epistles

Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ps 8:1
O Lord, our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
2Tim 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:8,
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

I might mention that very few people have been given the eyes to SEE these verses and claim them. In Eph 1:17-18, Paul prays that God will give the eyes of understanding to SEE the Hope of our calling. I believe that God won;t allow you to see your Hope if you still believe that the myriad of Israel's things are yours but aren't, things like the Rapture, the New Jerusalem, the Gifts, Abraham being your father, the earthly Kingdom, etc. I could fill a page with these. In essence, except for Jesus Christ, NOTHING that was ever given to Israel was given to the Gentile today. The things that belong to you are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts Books.

Eph 1:16-18
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

I'm convinced that those that retain all their Israel baggage, that the Denominational Church System tells you is yours but isn't, about 99+% of you will never go the the Highest Heaven, but instead, will go though the white throne judgment and end up on the New Earth with the nation Israel. Many are called, but few are chosen.

I believe everything I wrote and have believed it for 30 years. I didn't think all this up. It was discovered to be hidden in plain sight in the Bible, only, about 110 years ago. It's the ONLY way the Bible works without a hitch, and it totally removes contradictions. I pray that at least person will be given the eyes to see this. If you see it, obey 2Tim 2:15 (rightly divide, correctly cut God's Word) and mentally cut and divide between the end of Acts (59 books) and beginning of Ephesians (7 books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon). Assuming you're saaved, put the 59 books on the shelf and concentrate on the 7 for a few months, especially Eph and Col. Just remember that nothing in the 59 books, except Christ, has anything to do with your future. Pray for God to give you the eyes to see the hope of your calling in Eph and Col, especially. Getting rid of the Jewish baggage is a work in progress. It took me about 10 years.

God is filling the 3 parts of His universe with human Saints, to run things, I believe. From Gen 12 through Acts, about 2000 years, He was filling the New Earth and the all-Israel New Jerusalem with Israel Saints. The NJ has a gate for each tribe and no gate for Gentiles, although there will be a few from Acts. From the end of Acts, 64AD through about 2064, 2000 years, He is filling Heavenly Places, God's abode, with Gentile Saints.

If you have believed this for 30 years then even if a writing was found and proved to positively be written by Jesus which refuted your beliefs, it is not likely that you would be willing to change. I came in on the study of the bible about two years ago after a 20 year hiatus with an open mind and have changed my mind many times depending on what I have found that I believed incorrectly. None of it coincides with your belief other than most of us will be on the new earth after the judgement. As for abandoning the Jews you are in such hot water. This tells what will become of the Jews after the judgment and creation of a new earth. Hebrews 8:7-12 (7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”)[From the New International Version (NIV) bible]

 

[preston39]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

G-d doesn't....that's the reason He gives us unlimited number of times to be forgiven.
Have you read/studied The Bible?
You may wish to do so. Then you will understand how your hypothetical doesn't fit and is offensive.

 

[jaybird88]

G-d doesn't....that's the reason He gives us unlimited number of times to be forgiven.
Have you read/studied The Bible?
You may wish to do so. Then you will understand how your hypothetical doesn't fit and is offensive.

what of a person that lives where there are no bibles, or someone that lives where the ones handing out bibles are the same ones killing everyone around you.

 

[Blik]

what of a person that lives where there are no bibles, or someone that lives where the ones handing out bibles are the same ones killing everyone around you.

God is everywhere, God operates our world. There is beauty and order in everything, even in how God grows a tree. The tides of the ocean explains the precise order God uses for our earth. Everyone sees how sin disrupts that order, people hate killers and liars.

 

[jaybird88]

I understand that you don't hold the Bible as authoritative, but I hope you will accept what it postulates in Hebrews 9:27 "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment". Reincarnation is inconsistent with the Bible's teaching.

Isnt Hebrews 9:27 about Jesus death on the cross, didnt Jesus die on the cross, come back, and go back to the heavens?
And what of Lazarus, he died, Jesus brought him back. Is Lazarus still walking around today being as he can not die again?
Or maybe the passage is about Jesus only having to die on the cross one time rather than many times and nothing to do with reincarnation.

 

[noblenut]

no one will go to hell who does not truly deserve to be there and if u confess your sins to him and repent u wont go there either

 

[Lanolin]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

Warn him and Wait for him to repent and be sure to forgive him when he does.
If he doesnt and keeps on hurting people and ends up killing them well you really have to examine your parenting skills. But there are consequences for sin, just as when you go and hurt someone, the other person bleeds. When you kill someone, they die. When you break something, you need to work out how to fix it.
How can God punish anyone? Well its simple hes God he can do that. But you know what God sent Jesus his own son to pay for ours sin. And guess what Jesus was raised to life again, so that nobody need go to hell if they believe in Him! Thats not cruel thats mercy and grace. It would be cruel if God had given us no way to redeem ourselves. But he has...Jesus.

 

[preston39]

what of a person that lives where there are no bibles, or someone that lives where the ones handing out bibles are the same ones killing everyone around you.

I believe I would change residence.

 

[Didymous]

Let.s say you have a son..and he did something terible, hurt someone or broke something...you as a parent, would you send him to burn in hell for eternity because of that?...i guess not, cause he's your son and you love him...so i ask you..how could God punish people with an eternity in hell because of their sins...God, who is pure love...he could to that? Isn.t that a little cruel?

The main error you are making is comparing God to an ordinary father. Anthropomorphism, I guess.