Uh how does math relate to real life?
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can you name something you can't count or otherwise measure, describe qualitatively, relate in any possible way to anything else or express in any abstract way?
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
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can you name something you can't count or otherwise measure, describe qualitatively, relate in any possible way to anything else or express in any abstract way?
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
that was math -- and didn't even involve any numbers!
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K
can you name something you can't count or otherwise measure, describe qualitatively, relate in any possible way to anything else or express in any abstract way?
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
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Well hello, Yhello ,
This is an interesting question.
I have to admit that unlike other members here such as posthuman, whom I'm pretty sure is a certified genius when it comes to math, I was one of the least enthusiastic people regarding math when I was in school. It was always one of my toughest and least-understood subjects.
If I had to learn the "new" way of doing math that's apparently taught in schools these days, I'm pretty sure I would fail.
But I can't tell you when a day goes by that I'm not using basic math for something. It could just be me, but I really think anyone who is a consumer of most anything will have to use math on a regular basis.
For instance, here are a few examples of what I use math for on a daily basis:
* When figuring out what the best deal is on something at a store (i.e., is it worth it to buy that 4 gallon jug of hand soap? It just might be when I figure out what the price is per ounce.)
* When trying to figure out most anything that will cost money-- from shampoo and food to car loans, mortgages, etc.
I have recently been debating on renting vs. owning. A home owner in the area was kind enough to give me an idea of what the HOA fees, property taxes, roof replacement, landscaping, maintenance, and repairs would be over approximately 20 years. The monthly payments wouldn't be all that much different from average rental costs in the area, while the additional maintenance of ownership would tack on an extra $8000 a year (after taking all the costs over 20 years and dividing it into a yearly average.)
I have been playing with numbers and found a compound interest calculator online--if I took that $8000 a year and put it away every year instead (because I'd have to be paying it out anyway), in 20 years (at 5% interest, compounded annually), the estimated sum would be nearly $300,000 (which I was able to calculate on the website.) It would be tough to find a house in the area that would appreciate that much in value, so the numbers help keep me focused on what's most realistic for my own circumstances.
* I use math constantly for most anything I cook or bake, seeing as I usually split the recipe in half (because as much as I'd love to be eating 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies, I sure don't need to have that many around.)
* I also dabble in sewing, which is a constant mathematic equation in and of itself. Every size needs a different amount of fabric and trims, which all come in different widths, so I am constantly having to calculate and convert the amount of each item I need (I've even asked other people here in the threads for help.)
As much as I would have liked to skip math in school too, even I have to admit that it's become a vital part of my daily life.
How do you find yourself using math in your own life, or have you found a way around it?
(If so, I'd honestly love to know the secret!)
,This is an interesting question.
I have to admit that unlike other members here such as posthuman, whom I'm pretty sure is a certified genius when it comes to math
, I was one of the least enthusiastic people regarding math when I was in school. It was always one of my toughest and least-understood subjects. If I had to learn the "new" way of doing math that's apparently taught in schools these days, I'm pretty sure I would fail.
But I can't tell you when a day goes by that I'm not using basic math for something. It could just be me, but I really think anyone who is a consumer of most anything will have to use math on a regular basis.
For instance, here are a few examples of what I use math for on a daily basis:
* When figuring out what the best deal is on something at a store (i.e., is it worth it to buy that 4 gallon jug of hand soap? It just might be when I figure out what the price is per ounce.)
* When trying to figure out most anything that will cost money-- from shampoo and food to car loans, mortgages, etc.
I have recently been debating on renting vs. owning. A home owner in the area was kind enough to give me an idea of what the HOA fees, property taxes, roof replacement, landscaping, maintenance, and repairs would be over approximately 20 years. The monthly payments wouldn't be all that much different from average rental costs in the area, while the additional maintenance of ownership would tack on an extra $8000 a year (after taking all the costs over 20 years and dividing it into a yearly average.)
I have been playing with numbers and found a compound interest calculator online--if I took that $8000 a year and put it away every year instead (because I'd have to be paying it out anyway), in 20 years (at 5% interest, compounded annually), the estimated sum would be nearly $300,000 (which I was able to calculate on the website.) It would be tough to find a house in the area that would appreciate that much in value, so the numbers help keep me focused on what's most realistic for my own circumstances.
* I use math constantly for most anything I cook or bake, seeing as I usually split the recipe in half (because as much as I'd love to be eating 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies, I sure don't need to have that many around.)
* I also dabble in sewing, which is a constant mathematic equation in and of itself. Every size needs a different amount of fabric and trims, which all come in different widths, so I am constantly having to calculate and convert the amount of each item I need (I've even asked other people here in the threads for help.)
As much as I would have liked to skip math in school too
, even I have to admit that it's become a vital part of my daily life.How do you find yourself using math in your own life, or have you found a way around it?
(If so, I'd honestly love to know the secret!
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Math is needed for ordinary stuff like:
- budgeting
- comparing prices (especially comparing price per pound or ounce)
- tallying your shopping total before you checkout so you'll know how much it should be
- checking receipts (were you overcharged on an item, or does the total seem too high or too low?)
- counting money
- balancing your checkbook
- checking/monitoring your credit card activity (are you spending too much?)
- doing your taxes (ugh!)
- cooking (following/adjusting measurements and time in recipes)
- making purchasing decisions (figuring out which purchase gives you the most bang for your buck)
- calculating tips at restaurants
- counting calories
- calculating pay (how many total hours did you work in a pay period? How much should your gross pay be? How much of your pay goes to taxes? How much should your net pay be?)
- budgeting
- comparing prices (especially comparing price per pound or ounce)
- tallying your shopping total before you checkout so you'll know how much it should be
- checking receipts (were you overcharged on an item, or does the total seem too high or too low?)
- counting money
- balancing your checkbook
- checking/monitoring your credit card activity (are you spending too much?)
- doing your taxes (ugh!)
- cooking (following/adjusting measurements and time in recipes)
- making purchasing decisions (figuring out which purchase gives you the most bang for your buck)
- calculating tips at restaurants
- counting calories
- calculating pay (how many total hours did you work in a pay period? How much should your gross pay be? How much of your pay goes to taxes? How much should your net pay be?)
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Well hello, Yhello ,
This is an interesting question.
I have to admit that unlike other members here such as posthuman, whom I'm pretty sure is a certified genius when it comes to math, I was one of the least people regarding math when I was in school. It was always one of my toughest and least-understood subjects.
If I had to learn the "new" way of doing math that's apparently taught in schools these days, I'm pretty sure I would fail.
But I can't tell you when a day goes by that I'm not using basic math for something. It could just be me, but I really think anyone who is a consumer of most anything will have to use math on a regular basis.
For instance, here are a few examples of what I use math for on a daily basis:
* When figuring out what the best deal is on something at a store (i.e., is it worth it to buy that 4 gallon jug of hand soap? It just might be when I figure out what the price is per ounce.)
* When trying to figure out most anything that will cost money-- from shampoo and food to car loans, mortgages, etc.
I have recently been debating on renting vs. owning. A home owner in the area was kind enough to give me an idea of what the HOA fees, property taxes, roof replacement, landscaping, maintenance, and repairs would be over approximately 20 years. The monthly payments wouldn't be all that much different from average rental costs in the area, while the additional maintenance of ownership would tack on an extra $8000 a year (after taking all the costs over 20 years and dividing it into a yearly average.)
I have been playing with numbers and found a compound interest calculator online--if I took that $8000 a year and put it away every year instead (because I'd have to be paying it out anyway), in 20 years (at 5% interest, compounded annually), the estimated sum would be nearly $300,000 (which I was able to calculate on the website.) It would be tough to find a house in the area that would appreciate that much in value, so the numbers help keep me focused on what's most realistic for my own circumstances.
* I use math constantly for most anything I cook or bake, seeing as I usually split the recipe in half (because as much as I'd love to be eating 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies, I sure don't need to have that many around.)
* I also dabble in sewing, which is a constant mathematic equation in and of itself. Every size needs a different amount of fabric and trims, which all come in different widths, so I am constantly having to calculate and convert the amount of each item I need (I've even asked other people here in the threads for help.)
As much as I would have liked to skip math in school too, even I have to admit that it's become a vital part of my daily life.
How do you find yourself using math in your own life, or have you found a way around it?
(If so, I'd honestly love to know the secret!)
,This is an interesting question.
I have to admit that unlike other members here such as posthuman, whom I'm pretty sure is a certified genius when it comes to math
, I was one of the least people regarding math when I was in school. It was always one of my toughest and least-understood subjects.If I had to learn the "new" way of doing math that's apparently taught in schools these days, I'm pretty sure I would fail.
But I can't tell you when a day goes by that I'm not using basic math for something. It could just be me, but I really think anyone who is a consumer of most anything will have to use math on a regular basis.
For instance, here are a few examples of what I use math for on a daily basis:
* When figuring out what the best deal is on something at a store (i.e., is it worth it to buy that 4 gallon jug of hand soap? It just might be when I figure out what the price is per ounce.)
* When trying to figure out most anything that will cost money-- from shampoo and food to car loans, mortgages, etc.
I have recently been debating on renting vs. owning. A home owner in the area was kind enough to give me an idea of what the HOA fees, property taxes, roof replacement, landscaping, maintenance, and repairs would be over approximately 20 years. The monthly payments wouldn't be all that much different from average rental costs in the area, while the additional maintenance of ownership would tack on an extra $8000 a year (after taking all the costs over 20 years and dividing it into a yearly average.)
I have been playing with numbers and found a compound interest calculator online--if I took that $8000 a year and put it away every year instead (because I'd have to be paying it out anyway), in 20 years (at 5% interest, compounded annually), the estimated sum would be nearly $300,000 (which I was able to calculate on the website.) It would be tough to find a house in the area that would appreciate that much in value, so the numbers help keep me focused on what's most realistic for my own circumstances.
* I use math constantly for most anything I cook or bake, seeing as I usually split the recipe in half (because as much as I'd love to be eating 2 dozen chocolate chip cookies, I sure don't need to have that many around.)
* I also dabble in sewing, which is a constant mathematic equation in and of itself. Every size needs a different amount of fabric and trims, which all come in different widths, so I am constantly having to calculate and convert the amount of each item I need (I've even asked other people here in the threads for help.)
As much as I would have liked to skip math in school too
, even I have to admit that it's become a vital part of my daily life.How do you find yourself using math in your own life, or have you found a way around it?
(If so, I'd honestly love to know the secret!
)
How did you hang in there when math got tough? (i too was and (am in my case) not enthusiastic in math
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your subconscious was doing complex physics the whole time -- and physics is written in the language of math.
you were calculating estimated velocities and solving parabolic multi-variate equations in a split second to decide if you could get to a loose ball before someone else would, minimizing decision-theory problems to choose whether or not to move in some direction and at what speed, solving statistical regressions in the background to determine your own projected capabilities, and so on and so on.
but you didn't notice. because your brain is built to do that kind of math effortlessly. and you are made in the image of the One who created math
you were calculating estimated velocities and solving parabolic multi-variate equations in a split second to decide if you could get to a loose ball before someone else would, minimizing decision-theory problems to choose whether or not to move in some direction and at what speed, solving statistical regressions in the background to determine your own projected capabilities, and so on and so on.
but you didn't notice. because your brain is built to do that kind of math effortlessly. and you are made in the image of the One who created math
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Hi Yhello ,
Great question... I dreaded my math classes too.
After some time, I actually started to like algebra because finding the unknown variable felt like unraveling a big mystery. But then I had to venture into things like sine, cosine, and tangent, and then on to statistics classes, and I was lost once again.
I guess the only advice I could give is to:
1. Give yourself plenty of time and room to learn. Write out each step of your work and try to learn the patterns of what steps you had to take, because you'll most likely be applying them to other problems as well.
2. Take advantage of open office hours if your teacher offers them. I had several times when I was constantly asking for extra help. Praise God for patient teachers!
3. Get extra help from a tutor if you can. Sometimes another person can show you ways of looking things that totally open your eyes to a learning process you never thought of before.
I hope some of these things helped and that others will give their advice, too. God bless you and I will pray that God will give you undertanding, and even some enjoyment, of your classes!
, Great question... I dreaded my math classes too.
After some time, I actually started to like algebra because finding the unknown variable felt like unraveling a big mystery. But then I had to venture into things like sine, cosine, and tangent, and then on to statistics classes, and I was lost once again.
I guess the only advice I could give is to:
1. Give yourself plenty of time and room to learn. Write out each step of your work and try to learn the patterns of what steps you had to take, because you'll most likely be applying them to other problems as well.
2. Take advantage of open office hours if your teacher offers them. I had several times when I was constantly asking for extra help. Praise God for patient teachers!
3. Get extra help from a tutor if you can. Sometimes another person can show you ways of looking things that totally open your eyes to a learning process you never thought of before.
I hope some of these things helped and that others will give their advice, too. God bless you and I will pray that God will give you undertanding, and even some enjoyment, of your classes!
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can you name something you can't count or otherwise measure, describe qualitatively, relate in any possible way to anything else or express in any abstract way?
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
if you can, then you *might* have found something unrelated to math. but in order to prove it has no relevance to math and/or no math can be associated with it, you have to use a form of math: a contradiction. therefore nothing is completely dissociated from math
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the presumption was that there was something unrelated to math ((or unrelatable using math)) - but you use math in the examination/determination of whether the thing is related to math or not.
which..
math never 'got tough' for me until i was studying it at graduate level. the way you study it beyond ordinary 4-year degree - which is not just because of the notoriously difficult things you encounter then, or because of the likewise-notoriously heavy courseloads, but also because it becomes very abstract. math does not have to involve numbers, at all. it's not only a tool or language for quantifying or measuring things, but also about operations and relationships upon and between things, one to another. some of the difficulty is grasping the enormity of the application that math can have, when talking about very fundamental concepts like a 'basis set' or an 'equivalence class' under an algebra - words that hardly have any meaning to someone who hasn't studied math at such depth & abstraction.
just to give you an idea of what that can be like, in my first course in analysis we spent the first half of the semester without ever writing a number on the board. it wasn't until a good month into analysis II when we were finally at a stage where we could prove that 2 + 2 = 4. that's almost a year before we can say 2 + 2 = 4 -- but in elementary school you learn this like a week after memorizing the natural numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...
how did i hang? with migraines, with a lot of coffee, with a lot of patience and determination, and ultimately with something from outside of me opening my eyes to see.
so..
i disagree with the characterization of this first statement -- but i have a concept of the word 'measure' that doesn't have to involve numbers at all. you can say, it is warm outside - and tomorrow say it is warmer. you have measured, without attaching a numeric scale - the math is already present, and the fahrenheit & celsius scales are afterthoughts for convenience.
math is fundamentally a search for truth, and what a mathematician does is make unequivocally true statements. there is no other department on a university campus where you can write something down which is impossible to argue with or debate over.
in that light, i can't be sure that the second statement is accurate, either. a philosophical question that man has grappled with about math for ages is this - are theorems created, or are they discovered? - but this is phrased in an atheistic guise. if God creates math, and man discovers it, then both answers are valid. if then, mathematics is truth, then is truth something God creates or is it an aspect of Him, unbound by time and eternal in existence? is 2+2=4 no matter whether any 4 things exist?
see, the existence of math reveals the reality of intangibles, of a reality that is both wholly disconnected to the physical world yet inextricably fundamental to the very structure of all the material world. it tells you, this world, this life, is not all that there is. there is something which transcends all you see around you, which exists and persists even if the universe does not. that's beautiful, and it's not entirely different from discovering that you, as a living soul, are not just the body you inhabit. that there is a spiritual realm beyond the world and pervading the world, high above, which does not exist 'because of' the creation that we live in below it.
which..
math never 'got tough' for me until i was studying it at graduate level. the way you study it beyond ordinary 4-year degree - which is not just because of the notoriously difficult things you encounter then, or because of the likewise-notoriously heavy courseloads, but also because it becomes very abstract. math does not have to involve numbers, at all. it's not only a tool or language for quantifying or measuring things, but also about operations and relationships upon and between things, one to another. some of the difficulty is grasping the enormity of the application that math can have, when talking about very fundamental concepts like a 'basis set' or an 'equivalence class' under an algebra - words that hardly have any meaning to someone who hasn't studied math at such depth & abstraction.
just to give you an idea of what that can be like, in my first course in analysis we spent the first half of the semester without ever writing a number on the board. it wasn't until a good month into analysis II when we were finally at a stage where we could prove that 2 + 2 = 4. that's almost a year before we can say 2 + 2 = 4 -- but in elementary school you learn this like a week after memorizing the natural numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ...
how did i hang? with migraines, with a lot of coffee, with a lot of patience and determination, and ultimately with something from outside of me opening my eyes to see.
so..
i disagree with the characterization of this first statement -- but i have a concept of the word 'measure' that doesn't have to involve numbers at all. you can say, it is warm outside - and tomorrow say it is warmer. you have measured, without attaching a numeric scale - the math is already present, and the fahrenheit & celsius scales are afterthoughts for convenience.
math is fundamentally a search for truth, and what a mathematician does is make unequivocally true statements. there is no other department on a university campus where you can write something down which is impossible to argue with or debate over.
in that light, i can't be sure that the second statement is accurate, either. a philosophical question that man has grappled with about math for ages is this - are theorems created, or are they discovered? - but this is phrased in an atheistic guise. if God creates math, and man discovers it, then both answers are valid. if then, mathematics is truth, then is truth something God creates or is it an aspect of Him, unbound by time and eternal in existence? is 2+2=4 no matter whether any 4 things exist?
see, the existence of math reveals the reality of intangibles, of a reality that is both wholly disconnected to the physical world yet inextricably fundamental to the very structure of all the material world. it tells you, this world, this life, is not all that there is. there is something which transcends all you see around you, which exists and persists even if the universe does not. that's beautiful, and it's not entirely different from discovering that you, as a living soul, are not just the body you inhabit. that there is a spiritual realm beyond the world and pervading the world, high above, which does not exist 'because of' the creation that we live in below it.
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A mechanic friend of mine, in high school asked his teacher "why do I need to learn math" and they replied 'in order to graduate" which was not a compelling enough reason for him to care. So he didn't.
Years later, he began working on car engines for his career and found that he needed to know measurements and combustion ratios and basic algebra quite often. He said 'if my math teacher in high school had said 'because one day you'll be working on cars and need it dozens of times a day in order to be good at your job!' then I might have cared.
there are a lot of jobs that use math daily. If you can't do it or find a way around it, you'll be paying other people who can to do work.
If you're a DIYer, you'll need math.
Right now, in the U.S. finance jobs are growing massively because people either don't have math skills, or don't get enough satisfaction from working with numbers.
I myself force an understanding of basic math because I refuse to be a victim. I never like to say 'well I don't understand X so I'll just have someone else do that.'
Years later, he began working on car engines for his career and found that he needed to know measurements and combustion ratios and basic algebra quite often. He said 'if my math teacher in high school had said 'because one day you'll be working on cars and need it dozens of times a day in order to be good at your job!' then I might have cared.
there are a lot of jobs that use math daily. If you can't do it or find a way around it, you'll be paying other people who can to do work.
If you're a DIYer, you'll need math.
Right now, in the U.S. finance jobs are growing massively because people either don't have math skills, or don't get enough satisfaction from working with numbers.
I myself force an understanding of basic math because I refuse to be a victim. I never like to say 'well I don't understand X so I'll just have someone else do that.'