Resurrection

[Noose]

Yes God working throug Paul. But it did not mean God make Paul god.

About when Jesus come only God know

Matthew 24:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Nobody said they knew the day or hour, but i know the time thanks to Paul and other apostles.

Heb 10: 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ...
36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For,in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

This can not mean 21 centuries and counting by any standard. It was in the 1st century; the one who was to come came. Paul knew it and that's why he was writing his letters counting himself among those that will be alive when the Lord comes. It was not an accident because he did that more than once, including here:

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

If this was a mistake, then can we say the Lord is making way too many mistakes through Paul? God forbid.

 

[Noose]

Do you know why?

Yes i do, look at my other response.

 

[Lanolin]

So noose are you saying the frst resurrections already happened (paul and the dead in Christ including the repentant thief on the cross) and so the rest of us have only the second death or resurrection to look forward to since you think Jesus already came back. Is that right?

Interesting...are there empty graves all over Israel or what. So when this happened, how come its not recorded in the Bible, that Jesus came back again, and if He has where is He now. Does he not care to come back for the rest of us born after He came. Am Confused now.

 

[Jackson123]

Nobody said they knew the day or hour, but i know the time thanks to Paul and other apostles.

Heb 10: 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ...
36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For,in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

This can not mean 21 centuries and counting by any standard. It was in the 1st century; the one who was to come came. Paul knew it and that's why he was writing his letters counting himself among those that will be alive when the Lord comes. It was not an accident because he did that more than once, including here:

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

If this was a mistake, then can we say the Lord is making way too many mistakes through Paul? God forbid.

So you believe Paul not only write to people on that day, but his letter applicable to people in now day? Am I correct?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Lets talk about it. Will you be resurrected?

Yes, everyone in Christ will be resurrected in an immortal and glorified body. That is of course unless you happen to be one who is still alive at the time the resurrection takes place, where in which case you would just be changed into your immortal and glorified body and caught up in the clouds with those who resurrected to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So noose are you saying the frst resurrections already happened (paul and the dead in Christ including the repentant thief on the cross) and so the rest of us have only the second death or resurrection to look forward to since you think Jesus already came back. Is that right?

Interesting...are there empty graves all over Israel or what. So when this happened, how come its not recorded in the Bible, that Jesus came back again, and if He has where is He now. Does he not care to come back for the rest of us born after He came. Am Confused now.

Hello Lanolin/Noose,

The first resurrection was initiated by the Lord and the church, those who have died and those still alive, are the next phase of the first resurrection. The first resurrection will also include the two witnesses, the male child/144,000 who will be changed and caught up and then the great tribulation saints who will have been killed because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will have not worshiped the beast, his image, nor received his mark. These are all apart of the first resurrection.

It is that resurrection that takes place at the end of the thousand years that one would not want to be apart of. And that because those who resurrect at that time are the unrighteous dead throughout all of history of which the second death has power over.

Currently, only Christ has been resurrected and the church is next. Peter, Paul and all the other apostles and every believer since then who has died, their bodies are still in the dust of the earth, with their spirits being in the presence of Christ. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will appear, bringing with Him all of the spirits of those who have died in Him and they will be reunited with their immortal and glorified bodies. And of course those who are still alive will simply be changed and caught up.

When the resurrection takes place, the entire church will be present in the air, all in their immortal and glorified bodies, where at which time the Lord will take us back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-53)

 

[SIMON55]

Hmm guess a few people dont understand why the bible talks about believers who fall asleep.

Has anyone grown seeds? You bury them right, then at the right time, they sprout to life. Same with us.
We say they are dead, but they are really actually dormant. Its like dormant volcanoes. To us, they seem doing nothing until one day they just erupt.

On the converse theres perishing. Ok everyone know theres some seeds that take ages to germinate. But they arent dead as such they still have life potential in them. A seed can only perish as it were if you burn it so that it cant even grow again, or grind it up to a powder. Or not bury it.

I think some people comfuse being resurrected with being saved and receving the holy spirit, being baptised then raised to new life as christians. Theres that, and then theres the actual resurrection that Jesus showed everyone. That is the promise to us too. Does that mean Jesus comes twice well I guess depends on how you look at it. I know I have not seen Jesus face to face but have faith I will Along with everyone else. Till then i can only 'see' in the spiritual sense. I have heard Him and faith comes by hearing, not seeing. But we will see, every eye will see.

If anyone does not know what am talking about I just wonder has anyone actually sown a seed in the gorund and watched it grow. Thats a picture of resurrection right there. And a miracle!

As a child were you ever given a childrens bible with illustrations ? Maybe before you could even read...
Did you ever see happy families of the faithful going to church....or on outings or caroling or christmas decorations were you blinded in the development of faith by the attraction of what you saw....
What is the point to illustrating childrens bibles if visual effects do not aide one to envision the faith being described in the word?

 

[SIMON55]

Here's what Isaiah said about resurrection:

Isa 26:
19Your dead will live; their bodies will rise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning,
and the earth will bring forth her dead.
20Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut your doors behind you.
Hide yourselves a little while
until the wrath has passed.
21For behold, the LORD is coming out of His dwelling
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity.
The earth will reveal her bloodshed
and no longer conceal her slain.

Q. Which rooms are these that the resurrected are told to hide for a while? Are these rooms in heaven or Earth and is the wrath to be poured to the heavens or earth?

Looks like Isaiah wasn't a rapturist to me....tribulation and wrath is poured out on this earth per Rev. ....
The wickedness is here not heaven.😀

 

[SIMON55]

Nobody said they knew the day or hour, but i know the time thanks to Paul and other apostles.

Heb 10: 25not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ...
36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For,in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

This can not mean 21 centuries and counting by any standard. It was in the 1st century; the one who was to come came. Paul knew it and that's why he was writing his letters counting himself among those that will be alive when the Lord comes. It was not an accident because he did that more than once, including here:

1 Thess 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

If this was a mistake, then can we say the Lord is making way too many mistakes through Paul? God forbid.

To me it appears it is you making the mistake of taking the written word to litterally instead of realizing it could also be in general because of it being unknown whether it was to be the next day or 10K yr down the road...I'm not going to get into a long drawn out debate about it because you people already hammered it in the other thread.....
But by what you believe the millenium already passed all the rapturing ressurecting and judging would have had to also....and we must be in hell but the lof hasn't consumed anybody and God must have took his Kingdom off to a new or recreated heaven and earth.....because all of us born the last 2K are born in sin and hell and wickedness and lost out on the kingdom....and nobody realizes it....
Dont bother trying to explain it all because I will ignore it....
My mind is closed to and rejects any such arguments or rationalizations.

 

[Lanolin]

No I never went to church as a child, never had a bible with illustrations give as a child either. My family are unbelievers....

I do teach bible to children now and explain to them what the resurrection means. Using pictures. They know people back then saw Jesus he wasnt invisible when he was one earth and he wasnt invisible when he was resurrected either and the Bible supports this with eyewitness accounts

 

[Lanolin]

Hello Lanolin/Noose,

The first resurrection was initiated by the Lord and the church, those who have died and those still alive, are the next phase of the first resurrection. The first resurrection will also include the two witnesses, the male child/144,000 who will be changed and caught up and then the great tribulation saints who will have been killed because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will have not worshiped the beast, his image, nor received his mark. These are all apart of the first resurrection.

It is that resurrection that takes place at the end of the thousand years that one would not want to be apart of. And that because those who resurrect at that time are the unrighteous dead throughout all of history of which the second death has power over.

Currently, only Christ has been resurrected and the church is next. Peter, Paul and all the other apostles and every believer since then who has died, their bodies are still in the dust of the earth, with their spirits being in the presence of Christ. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will appear, bringing with Him all of the spirits of those who have died in Him and they will be reunited with their immortal and glorified bodies. And of course those who are still alive will simply be changed and caught up.

When the resurrection takes place, the entire church will be present in the air, all in their immortal and glorified bodies, where at which time the Lord will take us back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-53)

That makes sense, although I have a question when do you think the church is completed? Does the bible say anything about this. I would think if looking at the fig tree when The new shoots are tender and its about to fruit. After all if Christ is the first fruits there will be other fruits to harvest.

 

[Lanolin]

Sorry I mean to say read Bible to children, to be specific. I wouldnt call myself a teacher in the sense of teaching doctrine or anything.

 

[Noose]

So noose are you saying the frst resurrections already happened (paul and the dead in Christ including the repentant thief on the cross) and so the rest of us have only the second death or resurrection to look forward to since you think Jesus already came back. Is that right?

Interesting...are there empty graves all over Israel or what. So when this happened, how come its not recorded in the Bible, that Jesus came back again, and if He has where is He now. Does he not care to come back for the rest of us born after He came. Am Confused now.

Of course you misunderstood my position. The coming of the Lord and resurrection is not a one day event that people can simply say, it already happened in such a date or first century or will happen in the future at some point, it is a continuous state that covers the whole of the Church era here on earth that started at some point in the 1st century and is still happening today and will continue until the end of age.

This Church era is what has been referred to as the terrible day of the Lord/ the last day/ end times/ and many other names because this is the period of judgement. The reason no one knows the day or hour.
These events are not visible to the eye because they are spiritual and are only to be understood. Jesus became a life giving spirit and every time there's a new believer, Christ comes in them together with other saints and they judge them - if a believer increases in sin then death comes to them swiftly.

The second resurrection (that of unbelievers) is also happening concurrently throughout this period (end times). It is not first and second resurrection because it follows certain order in timing but because first applies to certain people (believers) and second because it applies to unbelievers (Rev 14:14-). The second group resurrect and indwell unbelievers and thus continue to propagate sin/lies to many people making the condition of earth dwellers worse as time goes. So each generation increases in sin and the wrath upon the universe also increases and wipes out more people until the end of age where no one survive except the 144k believers that will be shelved from all these things- these will form the temple of God on earth and all other resurrect believers will live in them.

These 144k will live here on earth for 1000 years to break the curse that was set for Adam and Eve that they could not live past a day/1000 years- and thus, death and sin shall be overcome.

Hope your question is fully answered. There's never going to be a particular time that graves will physically opened, flesh and bones being the works of this earth shall equally perish with the earth.

 

[Noose]

So you believe Paul not only write to people on that day, but his letter applicable to people in now day? Am I correct?

Paul's letter is applicable to this generation and many generations to come until the end of age. Depends with what you are getting from those letters; there's truth in them and that's what we need to be understanding. The idea that resurrection and coming of the Lord is a one day event in the distant unknown future is completely false. Anyone with such thoughts will never ever answer Paul's question:

1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

 

[Lanolin]

Of course you misunderstood my position. The coming of the Lord and resurrection is not a one day event that people can simply say, it already happened in such a date or first century or will happen in the future at some point, it is a continuous state that covers the whole of the Church era here on earth that started at some point in the 1st century and is still happening today and will continue until the end of age.

This Church era is what has been referred to as the terrible day of the Lord/ the last day/ end times/ and many other names because this is the period of judgement. The reason no one knows the day or hour.
These events are not visible to the eye because they are spiritual and are only to be understood. Jesus became a life giving spirit and every time there's a new believer, Christ comes in them together with other saints and they judge them - if a believer increases in sin then death comes to them swiftly.

The second resurrection (that of unbelievers) is also happening concurrently throughout this period (end times). It is not first and second resurrection because it follows certain order in timing but because first applies to certain people (believers) and second because it applies to unbelievers (Rev 14:14-). The second group resurrect and indwell unbelievers and thus continue to propagate sin/lies to many people making the condition of earth dwellers worse as time goes. So each generation increases in sin and the wrath upon the universe also increases and wipes out more people until the end of age where no one survive except the 144k believers that will be shelved from all these things- these will form the temple of God on earth and all other resurrect believers will live in them.

These 144k will live here on earth for 1000 years to break the curse that was set for Adam and Eve that they could not live past a day/1000 years- and thus, death and sin shall be overcome.

Hope your question is fully answered. There's never going to be a particular time that graves will physically opened, flesh and bones being the works of this earth shall equally perish with the earth.

Ok what do you mean by 144k believers will be shelved. Are they israel now or israel when Jesus came first time or what. 12,000 from Each tribe right. Where are they?

 

[Lanolin]

Paul's letter is applicable to this generation and many generations to come until the end of age. Depends with what you are getting from those letters; there's truth in them and that's what we need to be understanding. The idea that resurrection and coming of the Lord is a one day event in the distant unknown future is completely false. Anyone with such thoughts will never ever answer Paul's question:

1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

Can you explain why the bible says those who died in christ are fallen asleep. If your view is correct, instead of scriputre saying fallen asleep, it should say they are in heaven already.

 

[Noose]

To me it appears it is you making the mistake of taking the written word to litterally instead of realizing it could also be in general because of it being unknown whether it was to be the next day or 10K yr down the road...I'm not going to get into a long drawn out debate about it because you people already hammered it in the other thread.....
But by what you believe the millenium already passed all the rapturing ressurecting and judging would have had to also....and we must be in hell but the lof hasn't consumed anybody and God must have took his Kingdom off to a new or recreated heaven and earth.....because all of us born the last 2K are born in sin and hell and wickedness and lost out on the kingdom....and nobody realizes it....
Dont bother trying to explain it all because I will ignore it....
My mind is closed to and rejects any such arguments or rationalizations.

Not trying to argue but i have a question for you; where do we draw the line between what is general and applies to all people and what is not according to Paul?
I have this passage in mind when i ask this question:

2 Cor 4:
12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

If Paul's use of 'we' is in a general sense and applies to all generations, then it means resurrection is for all generations and is continuous, but the idea that we as Paul used only applies to the end of age then the above statement by Paul doesn't make sense at all - because Paul seems to say that he (Paul and other 1st century believers) will be resurrected and be caught together with the first century listeners for their benefit, not for the benefit of 21st century people.

 

[Lanolin]

Noose all those fallen asleep in the Lord including Paul will wake and rise with the rest of any alive and remaining at the end of the age when Jesus returns. All those 1st century listeners are fallen asleep too are they not. And all the saints from every age right up to the end.

This is what many people who read the Bible understand it to be.

Any communication with or revleation about heaven and the afterlife is a vision, its not actually happening in our time. This is why God doesnt want us communicating with the people that have passed on, because they are resting. We are to pray and commune with Him alone, otherwise we would be praying like the catholics do to dead saints and talking to them. Saying hows resurrected life for you?

 

[Noose]

Ok what do you mean by 144k believers will be shelved. Are they israel now or israel when Jesus came first time or what. 12,000 from Each tribe right. Where are they?

Yes, the 144k are Jews and Jews or Israel doesn't mean a country in middle east and its inhabitants, it simply means believers as described here:

Rom 2: 28A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

The 144k are faithful believers who in this end times fully know God, and because they know God, God is going to protect them from the wrath that is wiping out the earth. And, they are God's plan because they form the temple of God where God's spirit and other resurrected believers will dwell forever.

I said before that believers die and resurrected to indwell other believers and unbelievers also die and resurrect to indwell other unbelievers but at the end of it, the wrath of God is going to wipe out all flesh except these 144k who shall escape and with them the resurrected believers in them. This is the point when it shall be fulfilled the prophesy of the OT that that kingdom of earth has become the kingdom of God or the kingdom of God is with men.

The 144k are also called the church of Philadelphia and these promise applies to them:

Rev 3:
7“To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
......10Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
11I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. 13Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

They are the faithful of God and are saved from the wrath:

Rev 7:1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Rev 14:1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

This temple of God is also what we call the new Jerusalem:

Rev 21:
9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. .....

15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia c in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits d thick.

The temple is made of people.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That makes sense, although I have a question when do you think the church is completed? Does the bible say anything about this.

Only God will know when the church is completed and the exact time when Lord will appear to call us up with that voice that sounds like a trumpet. However, we can know when it is getting very close because we can see the stage being set for the events which must take place after the church is removed, such as the stated of Israel, the increase in technology, the state of the world and the fact that the technology for the mark is here.

I would think if looking at the fig tree when The new shoots are tender and its about to fruit. After all if Christ is the first fruits there will be other fruits to harvest.

Yes, we just don't know when that harvest will take place, but we are very close.