Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Hey! THATS MY LINE! The Jehovah's FALSE witnesses! i thought i had the rights on that one? I'll let it slide this time. Next time i'll start saying "get your facts straight pal"

But on a serious note: You are right, his theology seems close to that of JWs. Atleast his plan of salvation atleast. Are even JWs as strict?

I fear for the new Christians, thats always my main concern. If you hear his laundrylist of things you have to do to get saved, you will get discouraged and possible if you hear the gospel for the first time, you see an overwhelming mountain in front of you and say "no thanks".
I dont know if any are here, but i bet there are people reading these forums who arent registered or dont necessarily post anything.

I have been saying Jehovah's False Witnesses since about 1990.....and feel free to use any phrase that I use.....especially when dealing with the workers for, Cainologists and Salvation losers.....

 

[dcontroversal]

You confuse believe unto salvation with obedience that comes after salvation. Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and obedience/works which follows is the fruit. You teach that we are saved by faith PLUS obedience/works which follows. You clearly teach salvation by works. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.

Amen.....more religious hoop jumping like a Poodle at the local dog show.......makes me think of the song "Signs" <---do this, don't do that, can't youbrrad the signs. ..... pure ignorance

 

[dcontroversal]

More like a truth you do not know, being self-taught and having received private revelation might be a reason.

Yep...this right here....one that claims special revelation <---liar liar pants on fire....and a deceiver to boot

 

[dcontroversal]

Typical straw man argument. You are not fooling me or any of my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat with your perverted gospel of works salvation. So which false religion or false denomination are you associated with?

He is ashamed and refuses to answer that question.......which speaks volumes about his character....

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't you have some good works to do somewhere so you can keep your salvation?

Hahhahahahhaha no doubt...like how many each day is enough....what if he is one short.....the one that matters <-> true saving faith

Lord, Lord have we not done......blah, blah, blah.....same drivel he is peddling like a hawker peddling spices in a bazaar....Works...WORKS WE GOT YA WORKS HERE.....Save yourself....DO SUM GOOD WIRKS......<---emphasis upon the I

 

[dcontroversal]

If repentance is a change of mind, the FRUIT of that change of mind should be CHANGE of BEHAVIOR in my humble opinion!
What else could it be?

We agree with this...what we vehemently disagree with is the works having anything to do with saving us or keeping us saved.....no such lie is taught in the bible

 

[dcontroversal]

Well, that's disturbing. The Bible says the Holy Spirit convicts us when we sin. If you don't even know when you sin, you have a definite problem.



That was more scrambled than my eggs this morning.

Hahhahahaha you are Cracking me up today like them there eggs hahhahah

 

[dcontroversal]

You don't understand that scripture. That scripture PROVES your doctrine wrong.

That scripture is John saying to those who claim to be saved that if, they NEVER admitted to having sins, then they were never saved in the first place, because getting saved requires one admit to being a sinner, AND THEN REPENTING OF THOSE SINS.

hahhahahahhaah wow man talk about a twist...

We, We, We Us all present tense and including John....You are a deceiver man.....nothing more than a deceiver

 

[dcontroversal]

That is about how you are not saved if you never admitted to be a sinner and then repented of your sins.
The way to be saved is to repent of your sins.
If you never repented of your sins then you are not saved. That is what that scripture means.

You must be dense man...he is writing unto SAVED PEOPLE AND INCLUDES HIMSELF......wow man...you really have no understanding hey

 

[TruthTalk]

Again, They can not see their own sin, They are hypocrites. Thats why I refuse to talk to them anymore..

Amen E-g, the people you are referring to don't walk the walk or at minimum are inconsistent. Plus you are having a conversation with someone who pretends to be someone they are not -- a pointless waste of time -- and the reason that, "you refuse to talk to them."

Here are a few alternative examples of what it means to be "a hypocrite":

pretender, fraud, faker, dissembler, deceiver, casuist, charlatan, poser, pharisee, bigot, quack, tartuffe, backslider, whited sepulcher, sham, actor, cheat, informer, trickster, one given to hypocrisy, sophist, mountebank, adventurer, confidence man, malingerer, humbug, swindler, informer, knave, ...

 

[dcontroversal]

Your the one bearing false witness dude. By claiming people think it is ok to not obey Jesus.

You need to get over yourself.

He was claiming to have special revelation that few know or have yesterday.....just another deceived deceiver........peddling works, sinless perfection and SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE

 

[dcontroversal]

Excuse me?

John said IF WE SAY, He included himself in that passage. Present tense.

John admitted he was not without sin, Just like Paul did in romans 7. And John said people like you who claim you are without sin are decieved. And there is no truth in you.

The more he writes....the more obvious it is that he does not know the word of God.....claiming a special revelation that most don't know is the icing on the cake

 

[Argueless]

That is certainly a wrong motive. There are many people who have faith in the fact that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus "happened." The problem is they are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and are instead trusting in works as the means of their salvation anywhere from "in part" to "for the most part."

Believers obey Jesus BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to remain saved and their motivation is love, not pride. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.

...REMAIN IN ME, AND I WILL REMAIN IN YOU. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. THIS IS TO MY FATHER'S GLORY THAT YOU BEAR MUCH FRUIT, showing yourselves to be my disciples. “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. IF YOU OBEY MY COMMANDS, YOU WILL REMAIN IN MY LOVE, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. John 15:4-14

...At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and HATE EACH OTHER, and many false prophets will appear and DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the LOVE (OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS) of most will grow cold, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED. Matthew 24:10-13

"If "ANYONE" does not remain in me"...THROWN INTO THE FIRE...

Did the Lord Jesus exempted you when He referred to "ANYONE"?

Is it a MUST to REMAIN IN CHRIST?

Will "ANYONE" be saved or REMAIN saved if he does not remain in Christ?

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Is it a MUST to WALK as Jesus did...to WALK IN LOVE...to WALK in obedience to His commands? (2 john 1:6)

Do you call it trusting in Jesus' life, death, burial, resurrection as the all sufficient means of salvation, whenever you and your OSAS group call those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD as WORKS SALVATIONISTS, SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS, IDIOTIC, PEDDLERS OF A FALSE GOSPEL etc...which clearly shows your condemnation of their OBEDIENCE TO GOD.

Do you(OSAS) not say that only true believers or the saved will or can obey God? Why then do you condemn those who teach OBEDIENCE TO GOD as if they are unbelievers and unsaved?

...Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 1 Corinthians 12:3-11

Are you IN CHRIST?

Would ANYONE IN CHRIST as a member of His body tell the other members that their OBEDIENCE TO GOD is not necessary to REMAIN saved since their salvation is irrevocable and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED?


...“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whose master FINDS HIM DOING SO WHEN HE RETURNS. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

...The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Matthew 13:41-43

You believe obedience is required for salvation

We believe obedience is a RESULT of salvation.

Can’t you see the difference?

 

[dcontroversal]

Wait a minute. Stop sinning, but mess up here and there?

Whats the difference between a sin and a mess up?

Let me guess: Me commiting fornication is a sin. Me flipping the bird to someone in traffic is a "mess up" right?

Hahhahaha no doubt you bird flipper you......to quantify and qualify sins into neat little boxes to justify a false position.....just adds more icing to his flat, false cake......He has special revelations remember....

 

[YourTruthGod]

We use the word repent many times to mean that we are sorry for our sins.

This is not what it means,,,even though so many use it incorrectly that we have to accept it.

Repent means to change our mind...to turn and go the other way.
When we're born we are lost and walking toward satan.

Then we REPENT,,,turn around and go the other way...
NOW we are walking toward GOD.

Really, we repent only one time in our lives....maybe two even.
But NOT every time we sin.....

What happens when we sin is that we're sorry for our sin and confess our sin and it's forgiven.

Oh no way, for the Bible says to repent of sins.

 

[Hevosmies]

Oh no way, for the Bible says to repent of sins.

WHERE? It doesnt say that anywhere. In Isaiah it mentions about Jacob. but NT.

Go through the book of Acts, repent repent repent, but it never says of sins.

Now it does say: repentance proven by deeds, no problem there. But repent of sins doesnt work because God also repents in the Bible! God has no sin!

Then again im a KJV kinda guy, no idea what the new versions say!

 

[YourTruthGod]

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,



For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous

But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God


He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

These are the 'not of works' that we no longer have to do:


Works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Straw man argument. Who do you think you’re fooling?

The gospel is not: "Good news everyone, we don't have to obey God anymore".

 

[dcontroversal]

No its not. Thats no where in Scripture. Jesus got angry, God gets angry.

Mar 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

What you were trying to quote is that you shouldnt HATE YOUR BROTHER. Did you just make a 'mistake'? Atleast its not a sin, Jesus looked at people with anger, yet Jesus wasnt a murderer.

The jig is up as the saying goes. You already spilt the beans, spilled the milk, burnt the toast, wet the bed. ITS OVER!

Amen....Be ye angry and sin not Paul said....Moses in anger broke the stone tablets, Jesus drove out the money changers with a whip with zeal and obvious anger....Anger or being angry is not sin in and of itself....

 

[YourTruthGod]

Pentecostals CLAIM faith alone, but they are not faith alone actually. Its persevere to the end to be saved. And depending on the brand, sometimes you have to speak in tongues to be saved too, often water baptized as well.
But I will grant you there might be some faith alone pentecostals out there, That movement cares so little for Scripture that you find all kinds of ideas there, depending on who you ask.

I said that because there might be things im doing that I dont even recognize are wrong.

Right; the Pentecostal denominations do things that I see from the scriptures that are wrong.