Women seperate from men?

[Lanolin]

Yea am a bit over the whole women-only bible study and prayer groups I just want to know the rationale for it.
I found this...food for thought. Isnt it just segregation and an unnecessary division of the body of Christ? I man it didnt use to bother me personally cos Im single but I imagine if I was married and always going off to women only groups and studies etc my husband wouldnt be very pleased.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2015/05/22/are-women-only-gatherings-biblical-thoughts-from-john-bunyan/

 

[Lanolin]

the separation of men and women in a holy place goes back to the ark (of Noah). the bible is not very specific on this other then the men went in together as a group and then the women went in as a group. in the ancient days when men and women were separated in church it was based on the ark, this is how ancient people understood it.

Really. Where did you get that from, I totally do not see that. All I see is the animals going in two by two male and female together? Not separated. He didnt have one ark for the males and another ark for the females.

 

[jaybird88]

Really. Where did you get that from, I totally do not see that. All I see is the animals going in two by two male and female together? Not separated. He didnt have one ark for the males and another ark for the females.

Genesis 7:7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood.

i dont know where they got the idea from. maybe this passage. Noah and the men, and Noahs wife and the women. why does the passage not just say everybody went in or Noah and his family went in. i researched this a while back and dont remember all the info. if you want to look into it maybe start with Cyril of Jerusalem, he was one of the early ones that wrote about it.

 

[oyster67]

Yea am a bit over the whole women-only bible study and prayer groups I just want to know the rationale for it.
I found this...food for thought. Isnt it just segregation and an unnecessary division of the body of Christ? I man it didnt use to bother me personally cos Im single but I imagine if I was married and always going off to women only groups and studies etc my husband wouldnt be very pleased.

https://pulpitandpen.org/2015/05/22/are-women-only-gatherings-biblical-thoughts-from-john-bunyan/

It is a sad fact that many Christian women are hooked up with men who care nothing for the things of God. I have fond memories of a time when men and women, both single and married, would come to my parents house for fellowship and Bible study.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sometimes sisters actually want to hang out with their brothers too. And wont both be richer for it?

Since each local church is supposed to be A FAMILY of believers, all should be together when gathered for worship or any other Christian activity.

 

[Lanolin]

It is a sad fact that many Christian women are hooked up with men who care nothing for the things of God. I have fond memories of a time when men and women, both single and married, would come to my parents house for fellowship and Bible study.

True I dont understand that, maybe some women become christians AFTER they marry but the thing is, by going to women only groups arent they excluding their husbands from any potential learning, prayer or seeking after God, or conversations about Him. Even the ones married to christian husbands, dont they actually want to study the bible together??

I mean ok, maybe some churches have a lot of widows, so it just ends up being female only, but to make it exclusively female...? Or what if you want to bring your brother along. And as for us single women,we get ghettoised into hanging out with just sisters cos the brothers go to their own group. And if theres anything worse its when some women feel in a women only environment then its ok to complain about the other half or opposite sex. If you with christian brothers its safe its not as if they going to lust after you in a mixed group. Ive only ever had one problem with a guy in a mixed prayer group being rude toward women. But in a group its ok its not you are going to go out on a date with them.

I remember one female in my bible reading group saying I dont want to be around a married man I feel awkward and this man was a pastor who invited his wife along too, and I'm thinking what is her problem, cant she handle sitting next to a man and studying the bible. Its not like shes alone with him. If you only ever interact with females how you ever going to deal with you men and treat your brothers with respect and without bias.

Just cos this woman had an ex doesnt mean all men are bad. I was thinking this...and thinking what a shame, shes let whatever bad experience she had with the opposite sex mean she goes out of her way to avoid them, even if they are christians.

I cant think why she would think this way, but I remember this. And there was nothing about this christian brother that ever made me uncomfortable. He once invited us to his home, with his wife, he was fine. And even if she was waiting with him by herself for the study to start, they were in a public place.

And then I think of all the womens only conferences and retreats I go to, and I just dont see any difference in the biblical content of what anyones preaching, from a normal conference so why make it women only? Im thinking it might be a holdover from mens only conferences that women were excluded so they decided to make their own and never thought to do anything radical like make these conferences available to all believers.

 

[Lanolin]

Genesis 7:7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood.

i dont know where they got the idea from. maybe this passage. Noah and the men, and Noahs wife and the women. why does the passage not just say everybody went in or Noah and his family went in. i researched this a while back and dont remember all the info. if you want to look into it maybe start with Cyril of Jerusalem, he was one of the early ones that wrote about it.

Just a normal reading of the verse does not indicate anyone went in seperately, some people are rreading stuff into it thats not there.
Noah was married yes, and had three sons (he did not have daughters) and his sons wives were married, so they went all in together.

 

[garee]

the separation of men and women in a holy place goes back to the ark (of Noah). the bible is not very specific on this other then the men went in together as a group and then the women went in as a group. in the ancient days when men and women were separated in church it was based on the ark, this is how ancient people understood it.

The separation between men and woman began when God gave over the faithless Jews to do that they should not of. They had no faith in the word of God and God reining over them as King of Kings . They did not put their hope in Him not seen.

They had become jealous of the surrounding nations. God performed that work up until the time of reformation. Today the government of God has been restored by all things written in the law and prophets .Men and woman from all nations as a kingdom of priest .Ambassadors of Christ sent from a foreign land, Zion, the heavenly Jerusalamen .True Christianity elevates both genders as a dynamic duel . Two working together can cause a strong bond. Three strands with God working along side are not easy broken.

 

[Dino246]

The separation between men and woman began when God gave over the faithless Jews to do that they should not of. They had no faith in the word of God and God reining over them as King of Kings . They did not put their hope in Him not seen.

They had become jealous of the surrounding nations. God performed that work up until the time of reformation. Today the government of God has been restored by all things written in the law and prophets .Men and woman from all nations as a kingdom of priest .Ambassadors of Christ sent from a foreign land, Zion, the heavenly Jerusalamen .True Christianity elevates both genders as a dynamic duel . Two working together can cause a strong bond. Three strands with God working along side are not easy broken.

The term is "dynamic duo". A duel is a battle between two people. A duo is simply two people.

 

[garee]

The term is "dynamic duo". A duel is a battle between two people. A duo is simply two people.

Thanks

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting.

I went to this christians womens 'girls getaway retreat' thing and thought, hold on somethings missing. It was the men. I didnt go to it to getaway from men, I just wanted to have some time away from home. If it was just a 'getaway' and if men (brothers) were invited there it would have been fine, i would have still gone. I didnt invite any though, because it was a womans thing. I wondered what they would have said if I'd said could I invite some brothers....

Actually there were two men there, one was the camp host-cook, and there were two young men on the worship team (along with two young women) and I wondered if they ever felt awkward being the only men and completely outnumbered.

Exclusive Womens only things sometimes feel like you either going to be in a convent or its like a coven of wiccans. For christians, what is the basis of them?

Another thing I joined once but then discarded was this bible journalling group, at first I though hey wow all good, but again it was only for women and it involved decorating your bible by colouring it in and putting glitter on it. And then it started selling this idea to everyone. Then it occured to me, what, dont men do this as well? Plus I already write my notes when I read my bible, I dont really need to gussy it up and make it look pretty and show it to everyone else, or at least, why make this an exclusively female thing to do? So maybe...its just a christian 'marketing' thing to sell more Bibles or washi tape accesories?

 

[Lanolin]

There is a sect i heard in nz called the Exclusive Brethren.
There is no sect called the Exclusive sisters, but maybe they had to make their own. Apparently a lot of controversy with this supposedly christian sect. Very legalistic. The other group is called the Open Brethren.

In some legalisitc sects, the women are treated very badly. They arent allowed to worship freely, just do what the men say for them to do, even if they are unmarried. I totally understand that wives are subject their husbands, but then it seems the hudbands forget ther part of the covnenant, which is to love and cherish their wives.

 

[Dino246]

I went to this christians womens 'girls getaway retreat' thing and thought, hold on somethings missing. ...

Actually there ... were two young men on the worship team (along with two young women) and I wondered if they ever felt awkward being the only men and completely outnumbered.

I'm not understanding this "outnumbered" thing at all.

 

[jaybird88]

Just a normal reading of the verse does not indicate anyone went in seperately, some people are rreading stuff into it thats not there.
Noah was married yes, and had three sons (he did not have daughters) and his sons wives were married, so they went all in together.

a normal reading of the text has Noah and his sons and Noah's wife and the ladies. two groups, one male group and one female group. did the groups stay separated the entire time on the ark, dont know but the scripture has them entering in two groups, it doesnt say why. here is the scripture again:
Genesis 7:7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood.

and just so you dont think im pulling this stuff out of thin air:

early church father:
Cyril of Jerusalem
"let men be with men and women with women. For now I need Noah's ark that I may have Noah and his sons together, seperate from his wife and his son's wives."

Gen 7 7 Rashi commentary (Judaism)
And Noah…and his sons: The men separately and the women separately, because they were prohibited from engaging in marital relations since the world was steeped in pain. — [Tan. 11]

also there was a book of Noah that is not around anymore, it may have explained all this in more detail.

 

[mar09]

An Article that will shed some light on this subject:

(excperpt)

Women were held in high regard in Old Testament times


Jesus and the Role of Women – Jews for Jesus

I believe so.

 

[mar09]

Interesting.

I went to this christians womens 'girls getaway retreat' thing and thought, hold on somethings missing. It was the men. I didnt go to it to getaway from men, I just wanted to have some time away from home. If it was just a 'getaway' and if men (brothers) were invited there it would have been fine, i would have still gone. I didnt invite any though, because it was a womans thing. I wondered what they would have said if I'd said could I invite some brothers....

Actually there were two men there, one was the camp host-cook, and there were two young men on the worship team (along with two young women) and I wondered if they ever felt awkward being the only men and completely outnumbered.

Exclusive Womens only things sometimes feel like you either going to be in a convent or its like a coven of wiccans. For christians, what is the basis of them?

Another thing I joined once but then discarded was this bible journalling group, at first I though hey wow all good, but again it was only for women and it involved decorating your bible by colouring it in and putting glitter on it. And then it started selling this idea to everyone. Then it occured to me, what, dont men do this as well? Plus I already write my notes when I read my bible, I dont really need to gussy it up and make it look pretty and show it to everyone else, or at least, why make this an exclusively female thing to do? So maybe...its just a christian 'marketing' thing to sell more Bibles or washi tape accesories?

I'm sure i read thru some posts a day or 2 ago, but here, i'm posting some verses that came to mind (not sure anyone else has posted them):
Titus 2. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

While there's no clear instruction to separate the men and women here, the older women are instructed to teach the younger, and what better way when they are together, perhaps in smaller groups in fact or one in one.

In conferences or women's prayer gatherings, some pastors or workers are also invited here, and i didnt think it was exclusive, but topics are often geared to women's needs like inner beauty, etc. which men may not always need or be interested in=).

Our church prayer mtg start with men and women together reviewing previous sunday's msg and individual shares of praise and trials, then divide among men and women perhaps for more personal prayer items not to be broadcast to all. But small care groups are often separately done. I think it is for privacy and more personal needs of both groups to be able to share and unload unashamed, unlike if when the group is mixed. As there are other church fellowships like interchurch events, there are a few opportunities to mix with men.

I also understand the advantage of mtg with a smaller group of your own gender, for one, because maturity of believers is so varied. I'd have appreciated 'family' Bible studies w/ all ages, children to grandparents together... but just getting them together may not be easy unless it was a family's reunion and all ages are indeed present! But a Bible study at the house of a bro or sis does not mean other members of the household cannot join.

 

[Lanolin]

a normal reading of the text has Noah and his sons and Noah's wife and the ladies. two groups, one male group and one female group. did the groups stay separated the entire time on the ark, dont know but the scripture has them entering in two groups, it doesnt say why. here is the scripture again:
Genesis 7:7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood.

and just so you dont think im pulling this stuff out of thin air:

early church father:
Cyril of Jerusalem
"let men be with men and women with women. For now I need Noah's ark that I may have Noah and his sons together, seperate from his wife and his son's wives."

Gen 7 7 Rashi commentary (Judaism)
And Noah…and his sons: The men separately and the women separately, because they were prohibited from engaging in marital relations since the world was steeped in pain. — [Tan. 11]

also there was a book of Noah that is not around anymore, it may have explained all this in more detail.

Nope doesnt say separate and again, you are reading studf that istnt here, because you bolding words where they arent even bolded in the Bible, forgetting that the wives went WITH them, into the ark.
With means with...not separate. The only reason its worded that way is because Noahs sons are named and the wives, three of them arent, its just easier to say that then say shem and his wife, japtheth and his wife, and ham and his wife.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm sure i read thru some posts a day or 2 ago, but here, i'm posting some verses that came to mind (not sure anyone else has posted them):
Titus 2. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

While there's no clear instruction to separate the men and women here, the older women are instructed to teach the younger, and what better way when they are together, perhaps in smaller groups in fact or one in one.

In conferences or women's prayer gatherings, some pastors or workers are also invited here, and i didnt think it was exclusive, but topics are often geared to women's needs like inner beauty, etc. which men may not always need or be interested in=).

Our church prayer mtg start with men and women together reviewing previous sunday's msg and individual shares of praise and trials, then divide among men and women perhaps for more personal prayer items not to be broadcast to all. But small care groups are often separately done. I think it is for privacy and more personal needs of both groups to be able to share and unload unashamed, unlike if when the group is mixed. As there are other church fellowships like interchurch events, there are a few opportunities to mix with men.

I also understand the advantage of mtg with a smaller group of your own gender, for one, because maturity of believers is so varied. I'd have appreciated 'family' Bible studies w/ all ages, children to grandparents together... but just getting them together may not be easy unless it was a family's reunion and all ages are indeed present! But a Bible study at the house of a bro or sis does not mean other members of the household cannot join.

I dont really see any conference for women talking about inner beauty or even talking about loving husbands much. Whenever ive gone to any women only things, they dont even teach that. (And many young women dont even have a husband either)

Also with mixed groups we share and unload the same I dont really see that with just women they share things unashamed. I reckon its more complaining about men that happens though, and that doesnt do anyone any good because, whats the point of complaining if not willing to confront those behaviours.

Teaching younger women happens one on one, that doesnt tend to happen in a group of women, what tends to happen when women get together is sadly, gossip. Ive noticed, in a womens bible group that more gossip happen then prayer. Everyone has to go round and talk about their week, and I dont really get why everyone has to say whats happened during the week, in a big group this takes up half the time. Ive noticed in mixed bible studies the attention is more on God and the word than what did you get up to during the week. Half the time I dont even remember what happened and even so, im not there to talk about myself...Id rather just commune with God.

 

[Lanolin]

I wonder if 1 corinthians 11:3-15 is referencing just head coverings or its really meaning men and women ought to pray and prophesy together, esp verses 11-12

 

[jaybird88]

Nope doesnt say separate and again, you are reading studf that istnt here, because you bolding words where they arent even bolded in the Bible, forgetting that the wives went WITH them, into the ark.
With means with...not separate. The only reason its worded that way is because Noahs sons are named and the wives, three of them arent, its just easier to say that then say shem and his wife, japtheth and his wife, and ham and his wife.

Im not reading anything into the text. I even bolded the text and gave you other sources that see the same conclusion.