And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple

[Dino246]

Oh! I see! God takes His orders from Paul, or Luke, or whoever penned the book of Romans?

Genesis 6
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

1 Samuel 15
10 Then came the word of the Lord unto Samuel, saying,
11 It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night.

Exodus 13
17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

....then, there's the parable of the talents....

Revelation 2
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Seems the Father, and the Son have a disagreement with whoever penned Romans, doesn't it?

No need to be snarky. I asked a simple question with no implications. If you feel like being antagonistic, I'm happy to ignore you.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Can you see how you used 2 different words against each other, and simply canceled out your premise?
First you say it is not an act of labor, then turn right around and say you place (sounds like a labor to me), and then say "and MAINTAIN?" Riddle me this then? How does one "maintain" not just faith, which is one of the fruits of the Spirit, but all the rest of the fruits of the Spirit? Does this "maintaining", involve works=efforts=LABOR? In these eyes? Labor? No matter if it's from love, or long suffering, or patience, temperance, or whatever, is STILL labor! Even thouigh, there is no "law?" against these labors? It is STILL "LABORS!"
People tend to fancy salvation as a gift, when it is more of a CONDITIONAL AGREEMENT! A person does this, and God does that! A person stops doing this? God stops doing that! It's as simple and easy, as it is hard and complex as that!
Seems as if you have more faith in Jesus, who was SENT, then in HIM, who sent Jesus!
Elstwise, you would not labor so futilely, in trying to keep your faith EXCLUSIVELY "IN" Christ!
You should read the Book of Amos, and see just how that Father "feels" about GRACE ABUSERS!
I know it may sound foreign to you. But, even Christ, as mighty as He is? Has a Father!

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the Faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal. 2:20-21

I live by the Faith of the Son of God (Jesus Christ), who loved me, and gave Himself for me (The Cross).

if righteousness come by the law (what I do) then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[NayborBear]

No need to be snarky. I asked a simple question with no implications. If you feel like being antagonistic, I'm happy to ignore you.

1 Corinthians 10
29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Can you see how you used 2 different words against each other, and simply canceled out your premise?
First you say it is not an act of labor, then turn right around and say you place (sounds like a labor to me), and then say "and MAINTAIN?" Riddle me this then? How does one "maintain" not just faith, which is one of the fruits of the Spirit, but all the rest of the fruits of the Spirit? Does this "maintaining", involve works=efforts=LABOR? In these eyes? Labor? No matter if it's from love, or long suffering, or patience, temperance, or whatever, is STILL labor! Even thouigh, there is no "law?" against these labors? It is STILL "LABORS!"
People tend to fancy salvation as a gift, when it is more of a CONDITIONAL AGREEMENT! A person does this, and God does that! A person stops doing this? God stops doing that! It's as simple and easy, as it is hard and complex as that!
Seems as if you have more faith in Jesus, who was SENT, then in HIM, who sent Jesus!
Elstwise, you would not labor so futilely, in trying to keep your faith EXCLUSIVELY "IN" Christ!
You should read the Book of Amos, and see just how that Father "feels" about GRACE ABUSERS!
I know it may sound foreign to you. But, even Christ, as mighty as He is? Has a Father!

When I say maintain, it means for the Christian to place their Faith exclusively in Christ and Him Crucified and nothing else (1 Cor. 2:2).

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

No one follows to stay saved...one is either saved eternally or the were never saved to begin with!!!

For My Flesh is meat indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed (the idea is that one must continue eating and drinking even on a daily basis, which speaks of bearing the cross daily [Lk. 9:23]).

As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.

He who eats My Flesh, and drinks My Blood, dwells in Me, and I in him (the only way that one can dwell in Christ and Christ in him, which guarantees a victorious, overcoming life, is for the Cross to ever be the Object of Faith and, as stated, on a daily basis). John 6:55-56

Question? Based on the following scripture (John 6:66) below are these people who are called Disciples still saved in John 6:66?

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you).

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

JSM

 

[NayborBear]

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the Faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Gal. 2:20-21

I live by the Faith of the Son of God (Jesus Christ), who loved me, and gave Himself for me (The Cross).

if righteousness come by the law (what I do) then Christ is dead in vain.

Seems it "comes with the territory", when trying to "edumacate" "Milky's." Everything seems to be "past-yer-eyes."

Romans 8
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Seems it "comes with the territory", when trying to "edumacate" "Milky's." Everything seems to be "past-yer-eyes."

Romans 8
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Yes, Jesus Christ makes intercession for those who are Righteous; not unrighteous. God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. Romans 4:5

Are you Righteous?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor. 13:5

 

[NayborBear]

Yes, Jesus Christ makes intercession for those who are Righteous; not unrighteous. God awards Righteousness only on the basis of Faith in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. Romans 4:5

Are you Righteous?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor. 13:5

Better yet? why don't you test my faith, so that you may see?

 

[dcontroversal]

For My Flesh is meat indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed (the idea is that one must continue eating and drinking even on a daily basis, which speaks of bearing the cross daily [Lk. 9:23]).

As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.

He who eats My Flesh, and drinks My Blood, dwells in Me, and I in him (the only way that one can dwell in Christ and Christ in him, which guarantees a victorious, overcoming life, is for the Cross to ever be the Object of Faith and, as stated, on a daily basis). John 6:55-56

Question? Based on the following scripture (John 6:66) below are these people who are called Disciples still saved in John 6:66?

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you).

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

JSM

Not walking with Christ does not indicate they lost salvation....Jesus told them tonrwjoice their names were written in heaven....you need to get over this "salvation that can be lost like a dime in the park" ......Christ is clear, the promises are clear, chastening, why and who is clear....

I WILL LOSE NOTHING is clear

I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE is clear

I WILL LEAVE THE 99 TO FIND THE ONE THAY WANDERS IS CLEAR

KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD IS CLEAR

CHRIST BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES THE WORK OF FAITH IS CLEAR

SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION IS CLEAR

IN BOTH THE FATHER'S HAND AND CHRIST'S HAND IS CLEAR

IRREVOCABLE AS APPLIED TO THE GIFTS AND CALLING IS CLEAR

ETERNAL LIFE IS CLEAR

EVERLASTING LIFE IS CLEAR

SANCTIFIED FOREVER IS CLEAR

IS NOT CONDEMNED IS CLEAR

GRACE OUTBOUNDING SIN IS CLEAR

PERFECT AND AORIST TENSE VERBS ARE CLEAR

INCORRUPTIBLE SEED IS CLEAR

The bible does not contradict itself....for salvation to be losable ALL OF THE ABOVE MUST BE FALSE, LIES or REJECTED.....and thay was just off the top of my head at 745 Am in Australia with no coffee yet.....there are no verses in context that teach a losable salvation.....and to boot, any salvation that can be lost totally detracts from GLORY GOING TO CHRIST AND PLACES US AND WHAT WE DO AT THE HELM..........to be frank, in my view it is satanic to devalue all the above and say I MUST KEEP MY SALVATION BY WHAT I DO or DON'T do...........

Reward comes from MITSHOS AND EQUALS PAY OR WAGES....AFTER WE ARE BKRN AGAIN FROM ABOVE BY INCORRUPRIBLE SEED our walk or lack thereof is now REWARDED and or CHASTENED depending on WHAT WE DO OR DO NOT DO! SALVATION IS SECURE REGARDLESS

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Not walking with Christ does not indicate they lost salvation

That's false doctrine!!!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

That's false doctrine!!!!!!!

Keep believing you maintain your salvation pal....see how that works out for you.....

 

[Dino246]

That's false doctrine!!!!!!!

You forgot the "JSM" citation at the bottom of your post.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus never lie friend, if yo do love your God with all your strength you will end up with love Jesus and if you love Jesus you will save.

Yes, we can now understand that you are definitely a "red letter Christian". You really follow Jesus's words in the 4 Gospels without recognizing that he was only preaching to the Jews under the dispensation of Law.

Many Gentiles somehow love to put themselves under the same Law that even the Jews could not bear (Acts 15:10).

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, we can now understand that you are definitely a "red letter Christian". You really follow Jesus's words in the 4 Gospels without recognizing that he was only preaching to the Jews under the dispensation of Law.

Many Gentiles somehow love to put themselves under the same Law that even the Jews could not bear (Acts 15:10).

My bro, if you think Paul not teach about take the cross you better read what he say

Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul not only take the cross, he is crucified.

 

[Nehemiah6]

You really follow Jesus's words in the 4 Gospels without recognizing that he was only preaching to the Jews under the dispensation of Law.

That is simply not true, and is not supported by the Gospels.

It is time to go back to all the Gospels, and then carefully discover all the UNIVERSAL spiritual teachings, truths, and principles revealed therein by Christ.

Let's take just one example -- the New Birth. Nicodemus who was a ruler of the Jews and well-versed in Scripture simply could not fathom what Jesus was talking about. Is the New Birth a UNIVERSAL IMPERATIVE? Absolutely. So there goes your theory.

 

[Guojing]

That is simply not true, and is not supported by the Gospels.

It is time to go back to all the Gospels, and then carefully discover all the UNIVERSAL spiritual teachings, truths, and principles revealed therein by Christ.

Let's take just one example -- the New Birth. Nicodemus who was a ruler of the Jews and well-versed in Scripture simply could not fathom what Jesus was talking about. Is the New Birth a UNIVERSAL IMPERATIVE? Absolutely. So there goes your theory.

You want to answer the same point then? There are some universal teachings I agree, but what about this?

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Do you regard Jesus as telling the truth here, in our current dispensation of Grace? Do you tell this to people who ask you the same question now?

 

[Guojing]

My bro, if you think Paul not teach about take the cross you better read what he say

Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul not only take the cross, he is crucified.

True, but as I have replied to you earlier, he is not saying that those who are not willing to take up the cross, not willing to be crucified, are not saved and Jesus would deny them in heaven.

There is a vast difference between Gal 2:20 and that Matt 10 passage that you are using. That is what change of dispensation means.

 

[Jackson123]

True, but as I have replied to you earlier, he is not saying that those who are not willing to take up the cross, not willing to be crucified, are not saved and Jesus would deny them in heaven.

There is a vast difference between Gal 2:20 and that Matt 10 passage that you are using. That is what change of dispensation means.

From your previous post, seem to me you believe that after the crucifixion of Jesus we not need to take the cross anymore because we not under the law but grace.

It mean you believe taking the cross is under the law, like animal sacrifice.

Paul take the cross

Paul say he is not under the law

So take the cross is not under the law

 

[Guojing]

From your previous post, seem to me you believe that after the crucifixion of Jesus we not need to take the cross anymore because we not under the law but grace.

It mean you believe taking the cross is under the law, like animal sacrifice.

Paul take the cross

Paul say he is not under the law

So take the cross is not under the law

How about this thinking, "Jesus took the cross for us, so that we don't have to"? You may not share that thinking of course, you have the freedom to reject it. But at the very least, can you understand the divine exchange that took place for us at the crucifixion?

 

[Third-temple]

Be not decived


1 John 2:15
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”
King James Version (KJV)

James 4:4

“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”
King James Version (KJV)