Would it be correct to say?
- Thread starter LeeLoving
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes, and yes.
Isaiah 53:
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
Isaiah 53:
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
The flesh profits for nothing. It was a demonstration of the promise. God pouring out his unseen Holy Spirt on corrupted flesh.
Something the law could not do. It kills the unseen spirit bring healing.
He is the lamb of God slain for our sins from before the foundation of the world. The demonstration is not the unseen work of pouring out His Spirit as if it was blood. Literal blood without the spirit has no life . The flogging like the garden by the brook Cedron demonstration was part of the 3 day demonstration.
Yes..
Well that was part of the process.. Jesus was half dead by the time they put him on the cross.. Thats why they where suprised that he was already dead when they came around to break his legs ( to quicken the death ) the soilder stabbed him with a spear in the heart to check that he was dead..
Almost all mainstream churches believe your first paragraph
If you are also in a church that believes that divine healing is for the Christian today, then the second paragraph is taught as payment for that healing, that classic verse "By his stripes we are healed".
Yes for both, but the world will persecute those that go against the world following Jesus, and they would of went against Jesus even if He was going against them with a different message that was not of the Bible contrary to their teachings, and ways.
But of course He would of not had so great a following when on earth if He preached something that was of another way, that was too far removed from their teachings, for they know Jesus still preached the Old Testament before He went to the cross, such as telling one person to go to the priest, and have him sacrifice an animal for him, for they were still under the Old Testament law, but also they believed He was the Messiah for His miracles, and teaching the 2 greatest commandments love God, and love people.
Even Nicodemus said they know He is a man from God for the works He did for nobody could do those works unless God was with them, and some leaders believed but did not say anything for fear of being put out of the synagogue, but they became hardened through time.
The persecution of Jesus before the cross was part of the way of the Christian, a saint, and told the story that He was not going to deny the truth, and what He came to do, so the flogging, and persecution leading up to the cross was all part of the process of being a true saint of God, and hanging unto the truth, and never denying the faith, no matter the persecution against you.
So His leading up to the cross with the persecution was important too for it is all part of the Christian way, do not ever deny the faith, and when He was on the cross He was saying He denies the world, and all that is in it, and will not comply with them, even if it means death.
Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
But the saints will be persecuted from the world the same as Jesus.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
I look at it as it is all part of the Christian way to not ever deny the truth no matter the opposition, or persecution, against us, and Jesus was the first Christian, and the one to provide salvation, so the whole process of His life, and the cross, is all part of the process of salvation provided for us, for He did not deny the truth, and lived the Christian way despite the persecution.
For Jesus living a sinless life, and going against the Jews that did not accept Him, and suffering persecution from them is as important as going to the cross itself, for without that saintly life, and suffering persecution for it the cross would of not happened, for Jesus would of denied the truth, but we know He did not, and could not deny the truth.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
If Jesus can endure the persecution, and the cross, then we can endure anything that is brought against us, and when the Spirit strengthens you it is a whole different situation than going by the flesh alone.
Half dead?
God cannot die .He poured out His Spirit life in jeopardy of his own .Christ of his own volition gave up the Spirit. The father struck the Son for our iniquities. The father did not let corruption have its way. Jesus was raised with the same body. The same that after he disappeared, he informs us we know him no more forever more. God is not a man as us we walk by faith
The hands of evil men had no part in the demonstration. The work is contributed to two, not the Satan inspired crowd. The father and Son working together in mutual submission to one another together as one (I and the father are one)They bring the peace of God that surpasses all understanding..
The piercing of the side was necessary as in all sacrifices used to demonstrate the unseen work of the Spirit . The lifeless spiritless blood must be poured out a the base of the altar so that it can return to the dust.
Acts 13:36For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Jesus suffered physical death..
He was not half dead when they put him into the tomb.. There are false christians and anti-christians who have put forward that Jesus was only half dead when He was placed in the tomb and recovered enough to leave the tomb and that the death and reasurection of Jesus never happened.. Saying that Jesus only half died is aiding those who deny the death and reasurection of Jesus..
At first you were talking about the cross which I commented on.
Eternal Spirit cannot die Jesus gave up the Holy Spirit. In the tomb God presreved his body from corruption. It could be compared to Lazarus who was dead asleep 4 days. Remember it was a living sacrifice .Life for life .Not death for death
No ones spirit ceases to exist.. Our spirits are eternal.. But we experience the death of our current flesh bodies.. And Jesus experienced the death of His body.. Lazarus did not cease to exist when he was dead for those 4 days.. Just as in the story of the other Lazarus and the rich man.. Lazarus died but he was still existing with Abraham and they talked to the rich man who had also died..
K
KnowMe
Guest
the hands of evil men had no part, but the soldiers who pierced did? not quite understanding that could you elaborate?