Salvation by our good works

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#1
Jul 8, 2018
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#1
Salvation according to the Greek interpretation means = A deliverance. We are delivered eternally by God's sovereign grace and we are delivered many times, according to the scriptures, as we live our lives here on earth. Exo 14:30, The Lord saved Israel that day out of the land of the Egyptians. Paul tells us that we have a warfare within us of the Spirit against the flesh. Sometimes after we have been born again and heaven is secured by Christ on the cross, we do yield our bodies to our fleshly desires and sin against God. When we do this we lose our fellowship with God (not our eternal deliverance) because God does not fellowship with sin. When we are in the state of non fellowship God pricks our heart and our guilt causes us to repent. If God forgives us we have just been delivered (saved) from our lack of fellowship with God.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#2
Jun 30, 2015
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#2
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, it seems to me that your use of the term "saved" in this sense is more likely to bring about confusion than clarity.

Plus, your thread title does not lead one to the same conclusion that your post discusses. :)
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#3
Dino246 said:
While I don't necessarily disagree with you, it seems to me that your use of the term "saved" in this sense is more likely to bring about confusion than clarity.

Plus, your thread title does not lead one to the same conclusion that your post discusses. :)
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If we are not careful, and believe that all salvation scriptures are referring to eternal salvation, the scriptures will tend to lead us to believe in eternal salvation is by the works of man and is dependent upon man's works as a qualification. I believe that there are more reference to a deliverance we receive here on earth than there is that have reference to eternal salvation.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#4
Dec 6, 2016
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#4
ForestGreenCook said:
If we are not careful, and believe that all salvation scriptures are referring to eternal salvation, the scriptures will tend to lead us to believe in eternal salvation is by the works of man and is dependent upon man's works as a qualification. I believe that there are more reference to a deliverance we receive here on earth than there is that have reference to eternal salvation.
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If we could ever be so holy and perfect that our perfection would be seen by God as the key to living in Heaven with Him then we would be able to be Gods, and for sure, none of us are godlike.

But if with our will we prefer to live in sin we prevent Christ from giving us salvation. We have to give our sin up so Christ can make payment for us.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#5
Jun 30, 2015
25,481
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#5
Blik said:
If we could ever be so holy and perfect that our perfection would be seen by God as the key to living in Heaven with Him then we would be able to be Gods, and for sure, none of us are godlike.

But if with our will we prefer to live in sin we prevent Christ from giving us salvation. We have to give our sin up so Christ can make payment for us.
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The part in bold is false. Scripture says this:

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#6
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#6
Dino246 said:
The part in bold is false. Scripture says this:

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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Nice, Bilk is like saying "You have to clean yourself first, before you can take a bath" :)
 
Adelia

Adelia

Junior Member
#7
Apr 18, 2018
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#7
Perfect is defined as maturing is it not? Cognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056 /télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process(spiritual journey).

I am of the understanding that we do not reach completeness until we are on the other side of glory.
Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Definition: having reached its end, complete, perfect
Usage: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#8
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#8
Blik said:
If we could ever be so holy and perfect that our perfection would be seen by God as the key to living in Heaven with Him then we would be able to be Gods, and for sure, none of us are godlike.

But if with our will we prefer to live in sin we prevent Christ from giving us salvation. We have to give our sin up so Christ can make payment for us.
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Christ already made payment for those that his Father gave to him (John 6). Jesus's last word was "it is finished". Your putting our eternal salvation dependent upon man's approval, making it eternal salvation, by the good works of man, which makes man his own savior.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#9
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
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#9
Dino246 said:
The part in bold is false. Scripture says this:

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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this is true. Christ died for us while we were still sinners. but what does that death do for us if atonement is not applied to our soul yet? Christ died for the world, yet at this moment not everyone is saved. the atonement is not applied.

repentance and faith is foundationalism. i think that is what brother blik meant.
 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
#10
Jun 24, 2011
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#10
We don't lose our fellowship with God because of sin. We just hide from God because of our sin so it is us that breaks fellowship NOT God.

Just like Adam in the garden. Adam thought he was hiding and was distanced from God but God knew where he was.

Same with us. We think we are hidden from God. We think we have broken "fellowship". But if sin is the cause of not being in fellowship with God then no one is ever in fellowship with God.

Fellowship with God is based on KNOWING that you are forgiven in Christ and coming to God in full confidence of that fact.

No one comes before God thinking they deserve to be there because of their sinless perfection. If they do they are turned from that mistake quickly.
 
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Guojing

Banned
#11
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#11
ForestGreenCook said:
Christ already made payment for those that his Father gave to him (John 6). Jesus's last word was "it is finished". Your putting our eternal salvation dependent upon man's approval, making it eternal salvation, by the good works of man, which makes man his own savior.
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There are people out there who reject that free gift because they would rather work their way to salvation, for example non Christians.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#12
Aug 3, 2018
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#12
ForestGreenCook said:
Christ already made payment for those that his Father gave to him (John 6). Jesus's last word was "it is finished". Your putting our eternal salvation dependent upon man's approval, making it eternal salvation, by the good works of man, which makes man his own savior.
Click to expand...
Romans 4:5-6 tells us that "faith" is not a "work":

"However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness, just as David also declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#13
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#13
Grandpa said:
We don't lose our fellowship with God because of sin. We just hide from God because of our sin so it is us that breaks fellowship NOT God.

Just like Adam in the garden. Adam thought he was hiding and was distanced from God but God knew where he was.

Same with us. We think we are hidden from God. We think we have broken "fellowship". But if sin is the cause of not being in fellowship with God then no one is ever in fellowship with God.

Fellowship with God is based on KNOWING that you are forgiven in Christ and coming to God in full confidence of that fact.

No one comes before God thinking they deserve to be there because of their sinless perfection. If they do they are turned from that mistake quickly.
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The idea that Christians lose fellowship with God when they sin, is man made and not the new covenant of grace. Let the Apostle Paul argues

We are under grace and not law Romans 6:14
When we are not under law, sin cannot be imputed to us Romans 5:13

Conclusion: Those under grace cannot be imputed with sin.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#14
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#14
Grandpa said:
We don't lose our fellowship with God because of sin. We just hide from God because of our sin so it is us that breaks fellowship NOT God.

Just like Adam in the garden. Adam thought he was hiding and was distanced from God but God knew where he was.

Same with us. We think we are hidden from God. We think we have broken "fellowship". But if sin is the cause of not being in fellowship with God then no one is ever in fellowship with God.

Fellowship with God is based on KNOWING that you are forgiven in Christ and coming to God in full confidence of that fact.

No one comes before God thinking they deserve to be there because of their sinless perfection. If they do they are turned from that mistake quickly.
Click to expand...
When we are obedient to God's commandments, we are walking in the Spirit and have fellowship with God. When we are actively walking in sin, we do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with him until we repent and start walking in the Spirit again. God does not fellowship with sin, that is the reason he turned his back on Jesus for those 3 hours when Jesus was bearing the sin's of God's elect and why Jesus said "my God, my God, why has though forsaken me." That is ,also, why we, as born again children, have many deliverance's (salvation's) here in this world when we repent.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#15
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#15
TheDivineWatermark said:
Romans 4:5-6 tells us that "faith" is not a "work":

"However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness, just as David also declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"
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The born again child of God does not have nay righteousness of his own (man's righteousness , by his nature, is as filthy rags) but his righteousness is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5) and the natural man does not have faith until he has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is given in regeneration. (new birth).
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#16
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#16
Guojing said:
The idea that Christians lose fellowship with God when they sin, is man made and not the new covenant of grace. Let the Apostle Paul argues

We are under grace and not law Romans 6:14
When we are not under law, sin cannot be imputed to us Romans 5:13

Conclusion: Those under grace cannot be imputed with sin.
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The scriptures teach, that we are eternally saved by God's grace, without the help of man, and that salvation is secured by Christ on the cross, however, after we are saved eternally we still carry the baggage of our sinful nature as Paul indicates of our battle within us of the flesh against the Spirit. God will not fellowship with sin, is why we lose our fellowship with him until we repent and are walking in the Spirit. That is why God turned his back on Jesus on the cross the three hours that he was carrying the sins of God's elect and Jesus said, "my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me," because God will not fellowship with sin.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#17
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#17
ForestGreenCook said:
When we are obedient to God's commandments, we are walking in the Spirit and have fellowship with God. When we are actively walking in sin, we do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with him until we repent and start walking in the Spirit again. God does not fellowship with sin, that is the reason he turned his back on Jesus for those 3 hours when Jesus was bearing the sin's of God's elect and why Jesus said "my God, my God, why has though forsaken me." That is ,also, why we, as born again children, have many deliverance's (salvation's) here in this world when we repent.
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Who do you think David was describing in Romans 4?

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#18
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#18
ForestGreenCook said:
The born again child of God does not have nay righteousness of his own (man's righteousness , by his nature, is as filthy rags) but his righteousness is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5) and the natural man does not have faith until he has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is given in regeneration. (new birth).
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Here, you are speaking of "the faith OF Christ" (I think I posted about Galatians 2:20 in either this thread or another), but this is always (in Scripture) distinguished from "their/his/her" faith. So what we see in verses like Romans 3:22 is that distinction:

"22 Even the righteousness of God which is by [means of] faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference"

Galatians 2:16 [ylt] -

"having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through [by means of] the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in [into/unto] Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by [/in] the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh."
 
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TM19782017

Active member
#19
Dec 15, 2018
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#19
Every words meaning is fully understood due to fully understanding the meaning of the opposite.

Light and Dark
Hot and Cold

Equal opposites.

I have not read the entire Bible yet but, I here many scriptures telling us what is good but have read zero telling us what is bad.
Yes the word evil is there but I don’t recall a scripture getting specific saying something like, It is evil to........., It does say it is good to........

So the question remains, how do we really know what good is until we can fully know what is evil or bad?
😊

What is your gauge for what is a good work?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#20
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#20
TM19782017 said:
Every words meaning is fully understood due to fully understanding the meaning of the opposite.

Light and Dark
Hot and Cold

Equal opposites.

I have not read the entire Bible yet but, I here many scriptures telling us what is good but have read zero telling us what is bad.
Yes the word evil is there but I don’t recall a scripture getting specific saying something like, It is evil to........., It does say it is good to........

So the question remains, how do we really know what good is until we can fully know what is evil or bad?
😊
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I have herd the statement; That we can never understand the grace of God until we understand the depravity of man, and I believe the statement to be true.
 
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