Rapture= false teaching

[lecoop]

God isn't going to do something with/to His Church that He doesn't have His Son Jesus Christ pray about. Christ didn't pray to take His Church out of the world; therefore, His Church will not be taken out of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. The pre-tribulation rapture disagrees with the prayer of Christ in John 17:15, and prays to be taken out of the world because of the coming of the evil one, the antichrist. Christ said, "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one." Christ's sovereign will will be done on earth as it is in heaven. During the future apostasy, the Church will be delivered from the evil one. The Church will not be taken off the earth 7 years before the second coming. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

You are contradicting your self. If he prayed not to take the church out, then the rapture cannot happen.....UNLESS His prayer was only meant for the church age. And of course it was. We are only arguing about 7 years of time. It this case, the "evil one" is speaking of Satan - not the man of sin.

The truth is, Jesus DID pray that prayer, but it was not meant for all time, only for a LIMITED time.

Paul is the ONLY writer of the New Testament that had a revelation of the rapture of the church. And Paul DISAGREES with you as to the timing. He makes it clear in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord. "They" get the sudden destruction of the day of the Lord, while we and us get "salvation" and get to live with the Lord,via the rapture. We don't get the sudden destruction because WE ARE NOT HERE.

Coop

 

[zone]

This scripture has NOTHING TO DO with the rapture. You are confusing the parable of the tares, that will happen the moment Jesus descends in Rev. 19, with the rapture that will take place before the 70th week even begins.

Coop

coop
the 70TH WEEK was fulfilled - consummated in 70AD. (if it wasn't you don't have a Saviour bud) all 70 weeks are about Jesus in the First Coming.

now what?

this GAP theory is from the judaizers (see stooge Scofield) - they want a MESSIANIC KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. and tons of xtians are helping. but thier Golden Age means Talmudic Law: making YOU AN IDOLATOR......READY?

those verses i posted have EVERYTHING to do with the gathering: pretribbers use "two women grinding, one will be taken and the other left" for their theory. wanna address that?

also: did you sin today? yesterday? last week?

what do you need a Crucified and Risen Saviour for if you are sinless?

 

[zone]

My heart is clean. I have been cleansed from ALL unrighteousness. I just use 1 John 1:9 a LOT!

The sins God will NOT forgive are those not confessed. I guess you know, some Christians are in sin and LIKE IT, and are not confessing it. Some think their sin is too small, and God won't notice, and they are not confessing. And some are in unforgivness and just WILL NOT forgive - so their sin remains.

Coop

you think you're the only Christian who confesses their sin to The Lord? mkay.

your heart is clean?
by YOUR work? nooooooo............by The Work of your High Priest.

anyways. its not enough have your sins blotted out to enter God's Presence. you must be PERFECT.

PERFECTLY HOLY, AND PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS - are you?

if not, where will you obtain such a Righteousness?

 

[zone]

You are contradicting your self. If he prayed not to take the church out, then the rapture cannot happen.....UNLESS His prayer was only meant for the church age. And of course it was. We are only arguing about 7 years of time. It this case, the "evil one" is speaking of Satan - not the man of sin.

The truth is, Jesus DID pray that prayer, but it was not meant for all time, only for a LIMITED time.

Paul is the ONLY writer of the New Testament that had a revelation of the rapture of the church. And Paul DISAGREES with you as to the timing. He makes it clear in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord. "They" get the sudden destruction of the day of the Lord, while we and us get "salvation" and get to live with the Lord,via the rapture. We don't get the sudden destruction because WE ARE NOT HERE.

Coop

*ahem*

please list (cut & paste) all references to pretrib rapture.

thank you.

 

[VW]

coop
the 70TH WEEK was fulfilled - consummated in 70AD. (if it wasn't you don't have a Saviour bud) all 70 weeks are about Jesus in the First Coming.

now what?

this GAP theory is from the judaizers (see stooge Scofield) - they want a MESSIANIC KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. and tons of xtians are helping. but thier Golden Age means Talmudic Law: making YOU AN IDOLATOR......READY?

those verses i posted have EVERYTHING to do with the gathering: pretribbers use "two women grinding, one will be taken and the other left" for their theory. wanna address that?

also: did you sin today? yesterday? last week?

what do you need a Crucified and Risen Saviour for if you are sinless?

So, is there a tribulation, lasting 7 years?

 

[VW]

If the gap theory is wrong, then there had to be some gap, as 70 AD comes up a little long for the 490 years of judgment.

 

[zone]

If the gap theory is wrong, then there had to be some gap, as 70 AD comes up a little long for the 490 years of judgment.

HUH?

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

~ so far so good?

Six things will come to pass and be fulfilled to usher in the Messianic hope in the 70 weeks as revealed to Daniel:​

1) To finish the transgression;
2) To make an end of sins;
3) To make reconciliation for iniquity;
4) To bring in everlasting righteousness;
5) To seal the vision and the prophecy;
6) To anoint the Most Holy.​

~ okay?

The purpose of the six events as prophesied by Daniel were to align the Jews with the eternal plan of God for redemption to come through Jesus. The 70 weeks were to be brought to a close with the completion of these six events.​

~ right?​

The previous 69 weeks would lead up to Jesus as Messiah, and in the 70th there wouldbe a NEW COVENANT bringing in everlasting righteousness. ​

The everlasting Gospel brings these truths of God to all the world. ​

The New Covenant would replace the Old, and all of the above six events could be preached as fulfilled when the Messianic Kingdom of Jesus came to reality. ​

None of the six events can be fulfilled without the purpose being focused upon Jesus All six are fulfilled in Him. ​

~ agree?​

If fulfilled in Jesus, then they must all come to pass during the First Advent of Jesus, not delayed or postponed to a future date when the Church is alleged not to be here due to a pretrib rapture. ​

These six events prove the validity of the New Testament and the Church, and that NOT ONE of the six has been delayed or postponed.​

~ right?

Dispensationalism POSTPONES the anointing of the Most Holy from the fulfillment in Jesus Christ, to it being fulfilled in a new temple and renewed sacrifices.

The Temple does NOT have anything to do with Jesus or The Promise. The six events of Daniel are about Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel or the Temple. Otherwise, the nation of Israel and the Temple would either become the messiah (their Kabbalistic writings actually teach this), or we are all are waiting on the messiah and that means Jesus Christ was a fraud.​

They say the 70th week is seven years saved off of the Cross and taken down from the bloody hands of Jesus (Col 2:14 is reported to be an error). ​

These false teachers report this is the true completion of the 70th week, during which all Israel will be saved without need of Jesus since they are under a DIFFERENT COVENANT.​

They are teaching that this is made possible, because God the Father would not allow God the Son to nail the last seven years of the Law to the Cross; that God the Father withheld the last 7 years of the Law dispensation off the Cross so animal sacrifices could be resumed after the Church is secretly raptured, to save jews.​

Acts 2:38 is not needed apparently.​

~ so far so good?​

The 70th week was half fulfilled during the life-time of Jesus, and the other half or three and one half years in the Church ending when the times of the Gentiles was fully come in. ​

The 69th week ended and the 70th week began when Jesus walked down the banks of the Jordan to be baptized of John. ​

~ okay?​

When John said "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world", he was identifying Jesus as the Messiah. There would be 69 weeks UNTIL Messiah. ​

Who would deny that Jesus was first recognized as the Messiah that day at the Jordan?

When Jesus came he said "THE TIME IS FULFILLED"
WHAT TIME?...THE 69 weeks past and the 70th week in progress. ​

~ yes?​

Jesus was to be cut off after 69 weeks and in the midst of the next.​

In the 70th week he would cause all animal sacrifices to cease for remission of sin forever. He was cut off during a week, and since the 69 were past, there remains only the 70th to be cut off in. ​

If Jesus was not cut off in the 70th week, then the entire 70 weeks have no relationship to Jesus at all, and you have no SAVIOUR.​

DAN 9:27
And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant (Rom 15:8) with many for one week (70th): and in the midst of the week he (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (by the Cross), and for the overspreading of abominations (of the Temple cult and the Romans) he shall make it (the Temple) desolate, even until the consummation (70AD destruction), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the Temple torn down, not one stone standing upon another).​

~ see how this part covers the 70 weeks AND tacks on (includes) the consummation (judgment) on all that - the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.​

To anoint the Most Holy was fulfilled when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River as a signal the Messianic 70th week had begun.​

The body of Jesus was the temple of God replacing the temple on Mount Moriah. ​

The fulness of the Godhead now dwelt in Jesus, whereas before the Babylonian Captivity it dwelt behind the vail in the holy of holies. ​

The 70th Week was fulfilled three and one half years into the Church when the Gentiles were grafted in to bring its completion and the Messianic hope to its full reality.​

~ so, PRESS INTO THE NEW COVENANT, JEW & GENTILE.​

(and dispies: please stop dragging that 70th week into the future)​

 

[Scotth1960]

You are contradicting your self. If he prayed not to take the church out, then the rapture cannot happen.....UNLESS His prayer was only meant for the church age. And of course it was. We are only arguing about 7 years of time. It this case, the "evil one" is speaking of Satan - not the man of sin.

The truth is, Jesus DID pray that prayer, but it was not meant for all time, only for a LIMITED time.

Paul is the ONLY writer of the New Testament that had a revelation of the rapture of the church. And Paul DISAGREES with you as to the timing. He makes it clear in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord. "They" get the sudden destruction of the day of the Lord, while we and us get "salvation" and get to live with the Lord,via the rapture. We don't get the sudden destruction because WE ARE NOT HERE.

Coop
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS NOT MEANT FOR ALL TIME? CHAPTER AND VERSE THAT SAYS THAT? WHEN CHRIST COMES AGAIN, TIME WILL END. AND ETERNITY WILL BEGIN. HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY WHEN CHRIST COMES AGAIN. SO THERE WILL BE NO FUTURE 1000 YEAR KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. IT WILL BE HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH, THE NEW JERUSALEM, FOR ALL WHO ARE CHRISTIANS. THE WICKED WILL NOT SEE GOD. THE SINNERS WHO REPENT AND ARE SAVED BY CHRIST WILL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS BY CHRIST. THE PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE IS A GREAT DELUSION BASED UPON THE APOSTASY OF EDWARD IRVING AND JOHN NELSON DARBY FROM THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN FAITH. THIS FAITH COULD BE FOUND IN DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS, INCLUDING IN DARBY'S ANGLICAN CHURCH AND IRVING'S PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH. THEY FOLLOWED THE NICENE CREED AND THE AMILLENNIAL ESCHATOLOGY. THEN THEY LISTENED TO MARGARET MACDONALD IN SCOTLAND AND BEGAN MISINTERPRETING SCRIPTURE. GO FIGURE. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES PEOPLE TELL THE PRE-TRIBULATIONAL PEOPLE THAT GOD DOES NOT WILL TO TAKE HIS CHURCH OUT OF THE WORLD BEFORE THE SECOND COMING, THEY JUST SAY THAT CHRIST'S COMING AGAIN WILL BE IN TWO PHASES. THAT MAKES 3 COMINGS OF CHRIST. AND THAT IS HERESY. CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN ONLY ONE MORE TIME. NOT ONCE IN SECRET AND ONCE IN PUBLIC. BUT TO ALL PEOPLE OF ALL TIMES AND PLACES AND EVERYWHERE, TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD, OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END. AMEN. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON

 

[zone]

So, is there a tribulation, lasting 7 years?

we have a tribulation coming, but i doubt it will last 7 years.
even if it did, it's NOT THE 70TH WEEK!

 

[zone]

If the gap theory is wrong, then there had to be some gap, as 70 AD comes up a little long for the 490 years of judgment.

that time frame from the captivity to Jesus is EXACT VW.

 

[Scotth1960]

HUH?

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

~ so far so good?

Six things will come to pass and be fulfilled to usher in the Messianic hope in the 70 weeks as revealed to Daniel:​

1) To finish the transgression;
2) To make an end of sins;
3) To make reconciliation for iniquity;
4) To bring in everlasting righteousness;
5) To seal the vision and the prophecy;
6) To anoint the Most Holy.​

~ okay?

The purpose of the six events as prophesied by Daniel were to align the Jews with the eternal plan of God for redemption to come through Jesus. The 70 weeks were to be brought to a close with the completion of these six events.​

~ right?​

The previous 69 weeks would lead up to Jesus as Messiah, and in the 70th there wouldbe a NEW COVENANT bringing in everlasting righteousness. ​

The everlasting Gospel brings these truths of God to all the world. ​

The New Covenant would replace the Old, and all of the above six events could be preached as fulfilled when the Messianic Kingdom of Jesus came to reality. ​

None of the six events can be fulfilled without the purpose being focused upon Jesus All six are fulfilled in Him. ​

~ agree?​

If fulfilled in Jesus, then they must all come to pass during the First Advent of Jesus, not delayed or postponed to a future date when the Church is alleged not to be here due to a pretrib rapture. ​

These six events prove the validity of the New Testament and the Church, and that NOT ONE of the six has been delayed or postponed.​

~ right?

Dispensationalism POSTPONES the anointing of the Most Holy from the fulfillment in Jesus Christ, to it being fulfilled in a new temple and renewed sacrifices.

The Temple does NOT have anything to do with Jesus or The Promise. The six events of Daniel are about Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel or the Temple. Otherwise, the nation of Israel and the Temple would either become the messiah (their Kabbalistic writings actually teach this), or we are all are waiting on the messiah and that means Jesus Christ was a fraud.​

They say the 70th week is seven years saved off of the Cross and taken down from the bloody hands of Jesus (Col 2:14 is reported to be an error). ​

These false teachers report this is the true completion of the 70th week, during which all Israel will be saved without need of Jesus since they are under a DIFFERENT COVENANT.​

They are teaching that this is made possible, because God the Father would not allow God the Son to nail the last seven years of the Law to the Cross; that God the Father withheld the last 7 years of the Law dispensation off the Cross so animal sacrifices could be resumed after the Church is secretly raptured, to save jews.​

Acts 2:38 is not needed apparently.​

~ so far so good?​

The 70th week was half fulfilled during the life-time of Jesus, and the other half or three and one half years in the Church ending when the times of the Gentiles was fully come in. ​

The 69th week ended and the 70th week began when Jesus walked down the banks of the Jordan to be baptized of John. ​

~ okay?​

When John said "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world", he was identifying Jesus as the Messiah. There would be 69 weeks UNTIL Messiah. ​

Who would deny that Jesus was first recognized as the Messiah that day at the Jordan?

When Jesus came he said "THE TIME IS FULFILLED"
WHAT TIME?...THE 69 weeks past and the 70th week in progress. ​

~ yes?​

Jesus was to be cut off after 69 weeks and in the midst of the next.​

In the 70th week he would cause all animal sacrifices to cease for remission of sin forever. He was cut off during a week, and since the 69 were past, there remains only the 70th to be cut off in. ​

If Jesus was not cut off in the 70th week, then the entire 70 weeks have no relationship to Jesus at all, and you have no SAVIOUR.​

DAN 9:27
And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant (Rom 15:8) with many for one week (70th): and in the midst of the week he (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (by the Cross), and for the overspreading of abominations (of the Temple cult and the Romans) he shall make it (the Temple) desolate, even until the consummation (70AD destruction), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the Temple torn down, not one stone standing upon another).​

~ see how this part covers the 70 weeks AND tacks on (includes) the consummation (judgment) on all that - the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.​

To anoint the Most Holy was fulfilled when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River as a signal the Messianic 70th week had begun.​

The body of Jesus was the temple of God replacing the temple on Mount Moriah. ​

The fulness of the Godhead now dwelt in Jesus, whereas before the Babylonian Captivity it dwelt behind the vail in the holy of holies. ​

The 70th Week was fulfilled three and one half years into the Church when the Gentiles were grafted in to bring its completion and the Messianic hope to its full reality.​

~ so, PRESS INTO THE NEW COVENANT, JEW & GENTILE.​

(and dispies: please stop dragging that 70th week into the future)​

AMEN. YOUR TEACHING IS REALLY CHRISTIAN. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON

 

[lecoop]

coop
the 70TH WEEK was fulfilled - consummated in 70AD. (if it wasn't you don't have a Saviour bud) all 70 weeks are about Jesus in the First Coming.

now what?

this GAP theory is from the judaizers (see stooge Scofield) - they want a MESSIANIC KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. and tons of xtians are helping. but thier Golden Age means Talmudic Law: making YOU AN IDOLATOR......READY?

those verses i posted have EVERYTHING to do with the gathering: pretribbers use "two women grinding, one will be taken and the other left" for their theory. wanna address that?

also: did you sin today? yesterday? last week?

what do you need a Crucified and Risen Saviour for if you are sinless?

As usual, you are dreaming, or imagining. The 70th week is still in our future: ALL of it. Why do you suppose John shows us the 1260 days twice, the 42 months twice, and the 3.5 years once? That is five times He shows us the last half of the week starting at the 7th trumpet. But where do the first 6 trumpets come in? Of course in the first half of the week.

Gap theory? Then Daniel invented it!

Dan 9
25... from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks This equals 69 weeks. NOT 70, but 69.

26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary

After the 7 weeks and 62 weeks the Messiah is put to death. But notice, the rest of this verse is fulfilled in 70 AD.

Now notice the separation between the 69 and 70th:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

So Daniel himself created the GAP. The 70th week is not a part of the first 69. That part was history, from 445 BC to the days of Jesus.

So we DO have a Savior, and we also have a FUTURE 70th week.

Post tribbers are more correct that you; for the parable of the tares will happen the moment Jesus hits the atmosphere. He will not put up with lawless people for ONE SECOND. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the rapture of the church, which comes 7 years before Jesus comes on the white horse.

Israel never finished their old covenant, even though God did. They still want to resume animal sacrifices. And God is going to let it happen. But the Antichrist will STOP those sacrifices at the midpoint of the week.

But those sacrifices have nothing to do with the Bride - which will be in heaven.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

you think you're the only Christian who confesses their sin to The Lord? mkay.

your heart is clean?
by YOUR work? nooooooo............by The Work of your High Priest.

anyways. its not enough have your sins blotted out to enter God's Presence. you must be PERFECT.

PERFECTLY HOLY, AND PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS - are you?

if not, where will you obtain such a Righteousness?

All I said was that SOME would be left behind. I did not say who. And I gave examples.

Perfect? If we stay close to Jesus, and repent quickly when we sin, and confess it, we stay in constant fellowship with Him, and when God the Father sees us, He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ. In other words, He sees PERFECTION. Not mine, but JESUS' perfection. That is the only way ANYONE can get to heaven.

But some people wish to play a con game with God, and play around with sin, enjoying its pleasures. I could tell you of a pastor that was finally caught having an affair with a much younger lady in his church. His wife committed suicide. She probably died with unforgiveness in her heart, and went to hell. Was this pastor repentant while this affair was going on? Of course only God could see his heart - but I could guess NOT, because the affair lasted quite some time. What if the wife had shot HIM before she shot herself? He would have died without any time for repentance - and HE would have gone to hell.

Of course that is the devil's game: KILL someone while they are enjoying sin - so they CANNOT repent and confess.

We are at the very end of this age. It is certainly NOT a time to play with sin. Some moment Jesus will return, and those playing with sin will be left behind. Plain and simple. The church today needs a LOT of holiness preaching!

Always remember, God looks at the heart. There are many that are in sin, and HATE it, and are struggling with strongholds, trying to become free. But they always keep a very repentant heart. So from the outside the actions may seem like the first group, but the heart is far different. NO ONE can con God.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

*ahem*

please list (cut & paste) all references to pretrib rapture.

thank you.

1 Thes 4 & 5
2 thes 2
Rev 7:9
Rev 19:7-9

This is enough for an eternal debate.
Now you can attempt to prove they
are NOT a reference to a pretrib rapture.
Good luck with that.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

coop
the 70TH WEEK was fulfilled - consummated in 70AD. (if it wasn't you don't have a Saviour bud) all 70 weeks are about Jesus in the First Coming.

now what?

this GAP theory is from the judaizers (see stooge Scofield) - they want a MESSIANIC KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. and tons of xtians are helping. but thier Golden Age means Talmudic Law: making YOU AN IDOLATOR......READY?

those verses i posted have EVERYTHING to do with the gathering: pretribbers use "two women grinding, one will be taken and the other left" for their theory. wanna address that?

also: did you sin today? yesterday? last week?

what do you need a Crucified and Risen Saviour for if you are sinless?

I did not answer you final question: the ONLY way to appear sinless in God's eyes is through the death, burial and resurrection of Our Lord.

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

What is remission? It is such a total removal that it is as if sin never happened.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

HUH?

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

~ so far so good?

Six things will come to pass and be fulfilled to usher in the Messianic hope in the 70 weeks as revealed to Daniel:​

1) To finish the transgression;
2) To make an end of sins;
3) To make reconciliation for iniquity;
4) To bring in everlasting righteousness;
5) To seal the vision and the prophecy;
6) To anoint the Most Holy.​

~ okay?

The purpose of the six events as prophesied by Daniel were to align the Jews with the eternal plan of God for redemption to come through Jesus. The 70 weeks were to be brought to a close with the completion of these six events.​

~ right?​

The previous 69 weeks would lead up to Jesus as Messiah, and in the 70th there wouldbe a NEW COVENANT bringing in everlasting righteousness. ​

The everlasting Gospel brings these truths of God to all the world. ​

The New Covenant would replace the Old, and all of the above six events could be preached as fulfilled when the Messianic Kingdom of Jesus came to reality. ​

None of the six events can be fulfilled without the purpose being focused upon Jesus All six are fulfilled in Him. ​

~ agree?​

If fulfilled in Jesus, then they must all come to pass during the First Advent of Jesus, not delayed or postponed to a future date when the Church is alleged not to be here due to a pretrib rapture. ​

These six events prove the validity of the New Testament and the Church, and that NOT ONE of the six has been delayed or postponed.​

~ right?

Dispensationalism POSTPONES the anointing of the Most Holy from the fulfillment in Jesus Christ, to it being fulfilled in a new temple and renewed sacrifices.

The Temple does NOT have anything to do with Jesus or The Promise. The six events of Daniel are about Jesus Christ, not the nation of Israel or the Temple. Otherwise, the nation of Israel and the Temple would either become the messiah (their Kabbalistic writings actually teach this), or we are all are waiting on the messiah and that means Jesus Christ was a fraud.​

They say the 70th week is seven years saved off of the Cross and taken down from the bloody hands of Jesus (Col 2:14 is reported to be an error). ​

These false teachers report this is the true completion of the 70th week, during which all Israel will be saved without need of Jesus since they are under a DIFFERENT COVENANT.​

They are teaching that this is made possible, because God the Father would not allow God the Son to nail the last seven years of the Law to the Cross; that God the Father withheld the last 7 years of the Law dispensation off the Cross so animal sacrifices could be resumed after the Church is secretly raptured, to save jews.​

Acts 2:38 is not needed apparently.​

~ so far so good?​

The 70th week was half fulfilled during the life-time of Jesus, and the other half or three and one half years in the Church ending when the times of the Gentiles was fully come in. ​

The 69th week ended and the 70th week began when Jesus walked down the banks of the Jordan to be baptized of John. ​

~ okay?​

When John said "Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world", he was identifying Jesus as the Messiah. There would be 69 weeks UNTIL Messiah. ​

Who would deny that Jesus was first recognized as the Messiah that day at the Jordan?

When Jesus came he said "THE TIME IS FULFILLED"
WHAT TIME?...THE 69 weeks past and the 70th week in progress. ​

~ yes?​

Jesus was to be cut off after 69 weeks and in the midst of the next.​

In the 70th week he would cause all animal sacrifices to cease for remission of sin forever. He was cut off during a week, and since the 69 were past, there remains only the 70th to be cut off in. ​

If Jesus was not cut off in the 70th week, then the entire 70 weeks have no relationship to Jesus at all, and you have no SAVIOUR.​

DAN 9:27
And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant (Rom 15:8) with many for one week (70th): and in the midst of the week he (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (by the Cross), and for the overspreading of abominations (of the Temple cult and the Romans) he shall make it (the Temple) desolate, even until the consummation (70AD destruction), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (the Temple torn down, not one stone standing upon another).​

~ see how this part covers the 70 weeks AND tacks on (includes) the consummation (judgment) on all that - the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.​

To anoint the Most Holy was fulfilled when Jesus was baptized in the Jordan River as a signal the Messianic 70th week had begun.​

The body of Jesus was the temple of God replacing the temple on Mount Moriah. ​

The fulness of the Godhead now dwelt in Jesus, whereas before the Babylonian Captivity it dwelt behind the vail in the holy of holies. ​

The 70th Week was fulfilled three and one half years into the Church when the Gentiles were grafted in to bring its completion and the Messianic hope to its full reality.​

~ so, PRESS INTO THE NEW COVENANT, JEW & GENTILE.​

(and dispies: please stop dragging that 70th week into the future)​

You are going to be SO SURPRISED when you start living the FUTURE 70th week. I will give you a clue: read Rev. 6 for the SIGNS that it is about to begin. When the 7th seal is broken in heaven, the 70th week will begin on earth, and it will be seen with the first trumpet judgment: nuclear war. Just hang around three or four more years and you will see it. Then you will see the other trumpet judgments one after the other - possibly about 7 months apart.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

You are contradicting your self. If he prayed not to take the church out, then the rapture cannot happen.....UNLESS His prayer was only meant for the church age. And of course it was. We are only arguing about 7 years of time. It this case, the "evil one" is speaking of Satan - not the man of sin.

The truth is, Jesus DID pray that prayer, but it was not meant for all time, only for a LIMITED time.

Paul is the ONLY writer of the New Testament that had a revelation of the rapture of the church. And Paul DISAGREES with you as to the timing. He makes it clear in 1 Thes. 5 that the rapture comes BEFORE the Day of the Lord. "They" get the sudden destruction of the day of the Lord, while we and us get "salvation" and get to live with the Lord,via the rapture. We don't get the sudden destruction because WE ARE NOT HERE.

Coop
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS NOT MEANT FOR ALL TIME? CHAPTER AND VERSE THAT SAYS THAT? WHEN CHRIST COMES AGAIN, TIME WILL END. AND ETERNITY WILL BEGIN. HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY WHEN CHRIST COMES AGAIN. SO THERE WILL BE NO FUTURE 1000 YEAR KINGDOM IN JERUSALEM. IT WILL BE HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH, THE NEW JERUSALEM, FOR ALL WHO ARE CHRISTIANS. THE WICKED WILL NOT SEE GOD. THE SINNERS WHO REPENT AND ARE SAVED BY CHRIST WILL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS BY CHRIST. THE PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE IS A GREAT DELUSION BASED UPON THE APOSTASY OF EDWARD IRVING AND JOHN NELSON DARBY FROM THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN FAITH. THIS FAITH COULD BE FOUND IN DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS, INCLUDING IN DARBY'S ANGLICAN CHURCH AND IRVING'S PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH. THEY FOLLOWED THE NICENE CREED AND THE AMILLENNIAL ESCHATOLOGY. THEN THEY LISTENED TO MARGARET MACDONALD IN SCOTLAND AND BEGAN MISINTERPRETING SCRIPTURE. GO FIGURE. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES PEOPLE TELL THE PRE-TRIBULATIONAL PEOPLE THAT GOD DOES NOT WILL TO TAKE HIS CHURCH OUT OF THE WORLD BEFORE THE SECOND COMING, THEY JUST SAY THAT CHRIST'S COMING AGAIN WILL BE IN TWO PHASES. THAT MAKES 3 COMINGS OF CHRIST. AND THAT IS HERESY. CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN ONLY ONE MORE TIME. NOT ONCE IN SECRET AND ONCE IN PUBLIC. BUT TO ALL PEOPLE OF ALL TIMES AND PLACES AND EVERYWHERE, TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD, OF HIS KINGDOM THERE SHALL BE NO END. AMEN. IN ERIE PA SCOTT R. HARRINGTON

I know it was not meant for all time, because God also tells us of the rapture of the church, where the bride is taken to heaven. It is impossible that we cannot leave and yet do leave. So Jesus was praying about the church age, not the END, where the rapture WILL remove the Bride.


You are mistaken about tiime ending. Is 1000 years TIME? Is 1260 days time? Is 42 months time?
You are mistaken again in thinking the present heaven and earth will pass away. That event will be AT LEAST well over 1000 years into our future.

The rest of what you wrote is mostly MYTH. If you wish to remain behind and tribulate, that is your choice, and I firmly believe God will give those that choose this just what they are believing for. But Jesus is coming for the Bride, before the 70th week begins. You could go if you wanted to.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

we have a tribulation coming, but i doubt it will last 7 years.
even if it did, it's NOT THE 70TH WEEK!

There IS a 70th week coming in our future. John shows us the last half of it FIVE TIMES, in days, in months and in years. I guess he really wanted us to get it - yet some STILL deny it. Go figure.

Coop

 

[VW]

that time frame from the captivity to Jesus is EXACT VW.

Except it does not include the last week. And if this week was complete in 70AD then what happened for the 30 something years between His death and the destruction of Jerusalem?

 

[VW]

There will be a Jewish kingdom, and Jesus will rule the world for 1000 years while the devil is bound in the pit for the same time. This is future, not past.