Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,641
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#96,641
UnderGrace said:
Fruit inspectors inspect fruit to determine true regeneration and make a decision
Two different things
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In what post number did I do this? Whose fruit did I inspect in this manner?

this again is not to decide the veracity of their conversion based on how much they sin or do not sin, or much good works they do.
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Where did I attempt to decide the veracity of someone's conversion? Please give post number.

I never said you did it,
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Post 96,450

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-4823
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,642
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,642
UnderGrace said:
I believe as taught in scripture that people are capable of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ who is the object of salvific faith, God regenerates those who rightly believe and trust in Jesus for salvation apart from works, it is God's gift, we accept it.

Pretty simple.
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I believe the same thing. I also believe the rest of what the Bible says, like when it says "if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments, we lie and the truth is not in that person". Do you agree with the apostle on this?

And am I a fruit inspector for stating what the Bible says?

Apparently, you people think quoting verses like 1 John 2:4 when merely trying to make a point is fruit inspection.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#96,643
#96,643
Melach said:
salvation is not just positional,
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Salvation/Justification is absolutely positional

He [Jesus our Lord] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. (Romans 4:25 - 5:2)
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#96,644
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#96,644
Budman said:
And it sure didn't take him long to trot out the old "if you don't act a certain way, you might not be saved" nonsense.
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nonsense? isnt that what the bible teaches cover to cover. if you dont act a certain way, you might not be saved. yes amen that is true. if you are robbin banks you are not saved, ok? repentance is needed there. God will not be mocked or fooled

where did you read that you can act as you please and you are saved? every book of the bible refutes that false idea

produce fruits worthy of repentance
any tree bearing not fruit is cut and thrown into the fire
love not the world
loving world is enemy of God
love of the Father is not in those who love the world
God hears not sinners
if you do these things be not deceived you will not inherit the kingdom
strive to enter the narrow gate
put your hand to the plow and dont look back or you arent fit for the kingdom

dear friend, you have been lied to by someone. to say our act doesnt matter is the language of the dragon. all will be judged by their deeds. whether good or bad. sheep and goats.
your doctrine neutralizes all of scripture's warnings and makes them of no use. you would need your own bible version to support that.

if you would join the wiccans today would you still be saved? if what you preach is right, the answer would be yes. God forbid such heresy is true.

brethren be not deceived, the devil walks around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, what would the devil say? would the devil say it doesnt matter how you act, in reference to your salvation? which entity would tell you obedience isnt required? God or the devil. God demands obedience cover to cover, all who didnt obey paid the price.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#96,645
#96,645
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,646
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,646
UnderGrace said:
Salvation/Justification is absolutely positional

He [Jesus our Lord] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. (Romans 4:25 - 5:2)
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Please respond to post 96,641
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#96,647
#96,647
Macabeus said:
I believe the same thing. I also believe the rest of what the Bible says, like when it says "if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments, we lie and the truth is not in that person". Do you agree with the apostle on this?

And am I a fruit inspector for stating what the Bible says?

Apparently, you people think quoting verses like 1 John 2:4 when merely trying to make a point is fruit inspection.
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The letters of John must be understood within the context that they were written.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,648
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,648
UnderGrace said:
I never said you did it. I am defining it as part of the discussion.
I am movin on now.
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Then why did you say what you said in post 96,450? You want to move on now, because you got caught in a false accusation.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,650
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,650
UnderGrace said:
Salvation/Justification is absolutely positional

He [Jesus our Lord] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. (Romans 4:25 - 5:2)
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How do you examine yourself to see if you are in the faith? 2 Cor. 13:5
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#96,652
#96,652
Macabeus said:
Then why did you say what you said in post 96,450? You want to move on now, because you got caught in a false accusation.
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That statement was not about you, it was about the larger picture of the rise of fruit inspection that has come about with Lordship salvation teachings being so prevalent, it was just about those who promote fruit inspection and how they view salvation.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#96,654
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#96,654
Budman said:
How many sins attributed to us will damn us?

One.

Good thing, through Christ, we have no attributed sins.
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indeed. instead of sin no more its go and sin some more

absolute ruin and degradation is what results from such carnal reasoning and carnal false doctrine.

"we all sin so might as well."

you will deny it forever but that is the true result of this doctrine. its the reason the churches are in absolute ruin and apostasy today, people go get drunk on saturday then go to church on sunday, thinking they are saved and sing Jesus paid it all, blaspheming and trampling the blood of the Lamb.

the situation is dire. this doctrine was never taught until very recently. everyone understood this with one mind as a church since the apostolic time, all the way to reformation, but then in late 1800s and 1900s something began to change. certain men crept in unnocited, preaching itching ears doctrines and wide road salvation, a compromised salvation while loving the world, wallowing in the mire, absolute ruin and degradation but dont worry you can believe in Jesus, continue on in those sins and just lose rewards and be saved.

leading millions to the pit. this is no joking matter. brethren, i beg you see that this is not what the scriptures teach. all the warnings would be meaningless if it were true. no ink is wasted.

dont teach people they can sin at will and expect no eternal consequences.

we can do all things through Christ (except repent?) why is it people can choose in the worldly to be the best in their class, best at their jobs, choose where to live, but they cannot choose to repent? why cant they choose to say God im sorry, and with a clean heart say God help me get right, save me from my sins (not in my sins). why cant they choose to stop watching evil things? why cant they stop adultery, fornication, drunkenness, idolatry? what exactly is preventing them if they have free will and all the precious promises from God and the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,655
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,655
UnderGrace said:
That statement was not about you, it was about the larger picture of the rise of fruit inspection that has come about with Lordship salvation teachings being so prevalent, it was just about those who promote fruit inspection and how they view salvation.
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It was said in response to something that was said by Budman in response to what I said. Follow the trail

Now you are taking your own statement out of context.

Just admit it. you fell into the GB9 and Budman false accusation parade. GB9 started with the false accusation that I am inspecting fruit, and you fell in with the lie along with others. It's called theological mob rule. It is commonly practiced here.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#96,657
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#96,657
UnderGrace said:
Only God knows who are His, and we know if He reveals it to us.

Fruit can be evidence but not proof
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I agree with the first statement, and I never once said anything that contradicted it.

But why would the Corinthians need to examine themselves if they already had the witness of the Spirit? Because willful sin and disobedience affect one's assurance.

Where did I say that faith is proof of conversion. This whole disagreement between Budman and I started in another thread, (the one on election/predestination) when I said continued faith is an evidence of true conversion. Do you disagree with this statement as he did.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#96,658
#96,658
Macabeus said:
It was said in response to something that was said by Budman in response to what I said. Follow the trail

Now you are taking your own statement out of context.

Just admit it. you fell into the GB9 and Budman false accusation parade. GB9 started with the false accusation that I am inspecting fruit, and you fell in with the lie along with others. It's called theological mob rule. It is commonly practiced here.
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The only time I am thinking on a personal level and writing to someone's statement I address them as Mr. Macabeus, or Mr. FYH, you will see this in my post, otherwise I am always just writing from the general perspective.

My post was about my personal experience with fruit inspectors and that was what I was reflecting in my statement.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#96,659
Mar 28, 2019
2,026
1,512
113
#96,659
Budman said:
Every time you sin you make the choice to do so.

Period.
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sometimes this is true.

but if you are speeding over the speed limit and you didnt see it, or remember it, that is not a willing choice, its a sin of ignorance.

the ot witnesses there is unwillful sin, but you and penned have refused this truth already. dont know why you refuse to see this bible truth:

Leviticus 4:2-3 “When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands—If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the Lord a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed.”

if all sin is intentional, willing, why does the bible say otherwise?
 
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