Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[eternally-gratefull]

EG,

Ah! I may be understanding something you said a little better after this post.

I THINK we may be saying the same thing about the Romans 6 baptism. It looks like we both are saying the person gets dunked in physical water. (but i realize you could be saying it is spiritual water...although I'm not sure how you'd describe that to another person.) And that the work that is accomplished is spiritual...because washing dirt off our physical body is not the purpose of physical water baptism.

Um no

You think we are dunked in physical water

I think we are immersed spiritually into the literal death and burial of Christ (no water spiritual or physical is involved)

Thats the problem I mentioned about the word and transliterarion.Sadly people see it an assume it always means water, That is not true in greek or roman times.

]So for me to state my view of Romans 6 baptism in bullet point format, it would be this:
A) the person gets dunked in physical water
B) but the work that is getting done is spiritual
C) linking us spiritually to Jesus' death
D) from that point on, we are no longer to walk in the fleshy/sinful ways of the old man.
E) because our old sins are left behind (a thing of the past)
F) because we are (after this event) dead to sin and sin is to remain dead to us. AKA...Sin has no right to us and we have no obligation to(wards) sin.

If your understanding is different, please let me know at which letter the difference begins. Feel free to simply list your view in ABC format if that's easiest. Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Again, I can not agree

We are placed into (baptized) the death and burial of Christ. We are baptized INTO him (his death) that just as he died. We died with him

No water is involved.

 

[KelbyofGod]

That's why I asked. You word things differently than I do and I wanted to clearly understand what you were actually saying. I get it now as far as you're understanding of Romans 6 goes (no water, just a spiritual thing).

And my understanding being physically dunked in physical water (and raised), but the more important work is being done spiritually.

In this we differ.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's why I asked. You word things differently than I do and I wanted to clearly understand what you were actually saying. I get it now as far as you're understanding of Romans 6 goes (no water, just a spiritual thing).

And my understanding being physically dunked in physical water (and raised), but the more important work is being done spiritually.

In this we differ.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes, And I thank you for polite and meaningful converation. We have come to see where we differ in our belief.

And people said it could not be done (polite conversation)!! (At least in my case,,lol)

 

[TLC209]

it seems we understand what we do using different terms.

conversion meaning when one accepts Christ...believes in Him and his death on our behalf. I don't use the term meaning 'from something else'...just using it as meaning from anything to Christianity, believing Christ is the only way to God

interestingly, I was also alone when I turned to God, at 5, remembering what I had heard about Jesus in Sunday School and asked 'Jesus into my heart'...as children say...but of course I have a different understanding now many years later.

I had a firm belief in God even as a child but I can't answer for others. I had my children's bible which I read regularly, prayed regularly and just basically 'talked' to God, and grew up that way and I can say God made Himself very real to me

yes a 5 year child can most definitely be saved.

you have several things going on in your post and there are threads all about them. for example the OSAS thread...I avoid it altogether. it's just a constant back and forth and people who do not accept OSAS are attacked. I think there are plenty of warnings in the NT that a person should not take their salvation as a given

I don't think we fall in and out of salvation but we do go through things on this earth and the testing of our faith is biblical

I agree. OSAS is not something I agree with. We should take salvation much more serious then that. Thanks for your response.

I was so thankful the day my son said "I believe". I took him to church for the first time and I had him put some of his money in the offering plate. Well he started to cry after he did. And I had to explain to him that we were giving the money to God to thank Him for all that He does for us. I had told my son that God provides everything we need. My son that weekend had been asking for shoes and we hadnt found any nice ones the day before, so I pointed out that God will give you nice shoes. He knows all our needs. So my son stopped crying slowly getting the concept of giving to God.

Next thing that happens about 10 min later is a little boy sitting in the pew in front of us had candy. And he was eating it and didnt offer my son any, but the boys mother told him to give my son a peice. The boy reluctantly did so and then my son had candy. Candy that he didnt have and probly would have spent using the change that he put in the offering plate. The little boy sees my son happy to have the candy that he gives my son more candy! And now my son had a bunch of candy. I leant over and told him, look God gave you candy. You didnt have candy but God knew you wanted candy. God takes care of us.

Later we went to the mall and I bought him shoes. And I thought that was the lesson there showing my son God provides. But God took it a step further. We were at a friends house and out of nowhere my friend's girlfriend brings my son a pair of new shoes. She says she had them just sitting in the garage her son never wore them. Nice brand new Jordans. I instantly remember what I had told my son. "God will give you nice shoes". And here they were. I reminded my son. And the blessing didnt stop. She brought him spiderman sweaters and shirts. He got blessed.

I used this time to show my son all that God does for us. And how we should be thankful. We just have to believe in God. And my son says "I believe in God. Im always gonna believe in God". Best day ever. My son was 4 years old.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree. OSAS is not something I agree with. We should take salvation much more serious then that. Thanks for your response

What??

We should take salvation more serious than what? Trusting God to do what HE PROMISED? What can be more serious that this? Adding your own works????

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I agree. OSAS is not something I agree with. We should take salvation much more serious then that. Thanks for your response.

I was so thankful the day my son said "I believe". I took him to church for the first time and I had him put some of his money in the offering plate. Well he started to cry after he did. And I had to explain to him that we were giving the money to God to thank Him for all that He does for us. I had told my son that God provides everything we need. My son that weekend had been asking for shoes and we hadnt found any nice ones the day before, so I pointed out that God will give you nice shoes. He knows all our needs. So my son stopped crying slowly getting the concept of giving to God.

Next thing that happens about 10 min later is a little boy sitting in the pew in front of us had candy. And he was eating it and didnt offer my son any, but the boys mother told him to give my son a peice. The boy reluctantly did so and then my son had candy. Candy that he didnt have and probly would have spent using the change that he put in the offering plate. The little boy sees my son happy to have the candy that he gives my son more candy! And now my son had a bunch of candy. I leant over and told him, look God gave you candy. You didnt have candy but God knew you wanted candy. God takes care of us.

Later we went to the mall and I bought him shoes. And I thought that was the lesson there showing my son God provides. But God took it a step further. We were at a friends house and out of nowhere my friend's girlfriend brings my son a pair of new shoes. She says she had them just sitting in the garage her son never wore them. Nice brand new Jordans. I instantly remember what I had told my son. "God will give you nice shoes". And here they were. I reminded my son. And the blessing didnt stop. She brought him spiderman sweaters and shirts. He got blessed.

I used this time to show my son all that God does for us. And how we should be thankful. We just have to believe in God. And my son says "I believe in God. Im always gonna believe in God". Best day ever. My son was 4 years old.

I enjoyed this alot. love the way you gave your son encouragement and God picked it up for you

I can testify to so many little simple things that God encourages us in and how He speaks to our heart and makes our relationship with Him so personal.

being thankful is a message in itself. sometimes when I am doing some chore I might not be all that keen on, thankfulness will well up in me with a joy I know is the Holy Spirit just encouraging me . I'll start to sing or just praise God out loud!

God is so good to us. I'm thankful your son had that experience!

 

[TLC209]

What??

We should take salvation more serious than what? Trusting God to do what HE PROMISED? What can be more serious that this? Adding your own works????

No bro. Taking it more serious then just some silly prayer someone asked you to repeat and now you are saved is a little too unrealistic. It takes commitment to God in this new belief in God if you truly gave your life to Jesus and received Him in your heart. Thats what people need to take serious. We give our life to Him and live for God now. A living testimony.

Why are you so against doing things to please God as if God deserves no such thing. Thinking that being greatful to God as works is just downright crazy. Let me ask you a question. Since works is seen to you as blasphemy. What do you consider works? So I can see the things you are against and what you will not do. Define works please. I want to see what it is that is an offense to you.

 

[UnderGrace]

No bro. Taking it more serious then just some silly prayer someone asked you to repeat and now you are saved is a little too unrealistic. It takes commitment to God in this new belief in God if you truly gave your life to Jesus and received Him in your heart. Thats what people need to take serious. We give our life to Him and live for God now. A living testimony.

Why are you so against doing things to please God as if God deserves no such thing. Thinking that being greatful to God as works is just downright crazy. Let me ask you a question. Since works is seen to you as blasphemy. What do you consider works? So I can see the things you are against and what you will not do. Define works please. I want to see what it is that is an offense to you.

You can do all the works you want they will not save you, never have an never will.

We give our life to Him

What does this mean ....somehow God is lacking now, we need to give our life?

Eternal life is not an exchange for a promise of future service or good works, not even close

 

[garee]

You can do all the works you want they will not save you, never have an never will.



What does this mean ....somehow God is lacking now, we need to give our life?

Eternal life is not an exchange for a promise of future service or good works, not even close

Yes God has no needs but satisfies all. He is not served with human hands .

 

[TLC209]

You can do all the works you want they will not save you, never have an never will.



What does this mean ....somehow God is lacking now, we need to give our life?

Eternal life is not an exchange for a promise of future service or good works, not even close

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Corinthians 619 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Your focus is all about being saved. Your focus seems to not be about God. Your life is your own. He who seeks to save his life will lose it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

 

[UnderGrace]

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

1 Corinthians 619 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Your focus is all about being saved. Your focus seems to not be about God. Your life is your own. He who seeks to save his life will lose it.

Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Yes as the scripture above teaches, we die with Jesus and we are born again in Him.

We bring nothing to the equation.

I did not give Him my life for eternal life ....it is not a quid pro quo

 

[TLC209]

Yes as the scripture above teaches, we die with Jesus and we are born again in Him.

We bring nothing to the equation.

I did not give Him my life for eternal life ....it is not a quid pro quo

You didnt give your life for Christ? You brought nothing to God?

 

[UnderGrace]

You didnt give your life for Christ? You brought nothing to God?

God does not save those trying to save themselves, all self-effort is laid down at the narrow gate.

 

[TLC209]

God does not save those trying to save themselves, all self-effort is laid down at the narrow gate.

I never said anything about being saved. But thats all you talk about. Are you a child of God or a heathen? Do you love God or yourself? And you never answered my question are you a homosexual?

 

[KelbyofGod]

There is/are some aspect(s) to salvation that are ours, not God's. And that seems to apply to every belief set (except what I understand to be Calvinism where they teach that God forces some people, and denies others, regardless of their personal desires or actions). In all others I know about it involves some form of involvement of the 'believer'. Some just say we have to believe (which is again, something WE do). Some include Repentance (something we do). Some include baptism (something we submit to, not do). Etc.

And because so many people will tell you so many things, I suggest starting the search for truth at the source... Go to God yourself and seek him out. Ask him those questions you feel need to be answered. Be honest. Be sincere. Ask. Let him lead you, speak to you, answer you. Read your bible. Expect God to answer. Don't pretend he's answered you just because you wish he already did. Wait until he actually does. Let God be God.

 

[Waggles]

Linguistically speaking according to years of analysis "ecstatic speech" has no structure (morpheme, phoneme) that would make it a language.

So what !!
Proof that speaking (praying) in tongues is not earthly but supernatural !!

 

[Absolutely]

Those are three examples.

1. In acts 2. It was done as a sign to Isreal (prophesied in the OT I believe)
2. In acts 10, It was a sign to peter who still struggled to believe the gentiles could get this spirit also (As he said later, who was he that he could withstand God)
3. In acts 19, It again could just be a sign

To use these examples to make a doctrine, I am not confortable with that. Otherwise everyone who ever came to christ would immediately start prophesying and speaking in tongues, like these people are, this is just not so.



I see like with many things,, Something odd or strange is going on, So the word gets out. COme see what is going on here (God used this to draw this crouwd is my view, and then also used it as a sign that these men were from God)

Then as these people came, they could hear the disciples speaking about the things of God in their own native language. Even though they probably possibly spoke hebrew or aramaci, But most likely koine greek, they each heard in their own NATIVE language what was being said.

This got many to wonder, and caused some others to mock and laugh saying they were drunk (maybe they could not hear anyone speak in their language? Or they were confused as to HOW they spoke in these languages, so thought them drunk)

This opened the door for peter to give his gospel message, and 3000 plus came to christ that day.

The sign (speaking in foriegn languages) was used to draw people, and then the gospel was given and people came to christ.

"The sign (speaking in foriegn languages) was used to draw people, and then the gospel was given and people came to christ."

If that is true,then the " let one interpret" verse needs some equally mental reconciling.
And how is pauls mind unfruitful if speaking in foriegn languages to ancient cultures is the explaining away of the promise?
He said his spirit was edified,but not his mind.
If,as the cessationist says "ther must be an interpreter" paul would understand.(since you are implying foriegn "known" languages.)

If speaking in foriegn languages explains away Gods power,then there would be no need for an interpreter.

 

[UnderGrace]

I never said anything about being saved. But thats all you talk about. Are you a child of God or a heathen? Do you love God or yourself? And you never answered my question are you a homosexual?

Are you?

 

[notuptome]

So what !!
Proof that speaking (praying) in tongues is not earthly but supernatural !!

So what.

If it is not biblical it is not of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"The sign (speaking in foriegn languages) was used to draw people, and then the gospel was given and people came to christ."

If that is true,then the " let one interpret" verse needs some equally mental reconciling.

No not really. Prophesy could be given by a tongue, Thats why you would need an interpretor. How can you explain what is being said if you do not know what it is. Not prophesy like end times stuff, But certain events which would happen in the near future they could ALL see, or certain people. Who were doing something, again, something verifiable so that when the tongue is interpreted. And the church SAW or WITNESSED the things that came true, they would be edified.

And how is pauls mind unfruitful if speaking in foriegn languages to ancient cultures is the explaining away of the promise?

Who said it was unfruitful? The people who heard these things in their own language, it was quite fruitful and even paul. Witnessing these events would be edified as he sees God work, and knows he had nothing to do with it, it was all God.. If I could do that, Wow, I mean WOW. Really? That would be the most awesome thing I can ever think off would be to be blessed By God in that way. We have many Chinese people here in columbus attending OSU, I am around the all the time, We Have “International Friendships Ministry” where a bunch of local church help these kids from the time they get off the plane and get checked into their dorm rooms, with transportation. Showing them how to get what they need, and friendship. We are blessed that some of them have remained close. And we now have close friendship who have moved back to china. Some of them speak great english, Some do not. You know how amaing it would be if I could all of a sudden speak chinese to share the word of God with them? It would be amazing beyond belief.

Maybe God will grant some of us this desire. Maybe he will not. But we are not going to question him. And just use the resources we do have to share the gospel with them

He said his spirit was edified,but not his mind.
If,as the cessationist says "ther must be an interpreter" paul would understand.(since you are implying foriegn "known" languages.)

If speaking in foriegn languages explains away Gods power,then there would be no need for an interpreter.

1 cor 14: 13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say?

Paul was not saying he does it. He was giving an example if he prayed without understanding, And what was his conclusion? He will pray with the SPIRIT and UNDERSTANDING

It is best to not pull part of a passage out of context and make it seem to say something else.

And for an interpretor,

If I have all english speaking people in my church, and someone starts speaking Chinese, There would be need of an interpreter. Otherwise, no one will understand what is said or prayed

Some times you just have to think