Salvation by our good works

[obedienttogod]

So I have a serious mental problem because I see the meaning of the scriptures differently than you? The majority of the so called God fearing world in the day of Jesus's days on earth accused him of being mentally ill to. Feather that.

Yeshua, also did not ask questions in the manner like you do.

An example of your questions and answers.
YOU: what color is the grass (knowing very well it is green)?
ME: it is green
YOUR TYPE OF ANSWER, THAT NEVER DOES NOT MATCH THE QUESTION YOU ASKED: in the late summer it become a dingy looking brown.

But, YOU never asked what color the grass will be in the late summer, you asked in current form, which means what color the grass is NOW!!


After seeing this pattern over and over by you, it's obvious something is either not right with you, or you are just a troll!!

 

[obedienttogod]

Did Jesus not say that he made his doctrine a mystery to confuse the wise and prudent?

He said it is so basic and simple the wise would be confused over it.

In other words, If Yeshua said, the moon will rise at sunset.
The wise would break it down ten thousand ways and never get that all the moon is going to do is rise at sunset.
They would overthink it.

The intelligent believe something must be complex for it to be correct. That is the very opposite of God. When we do find things that we do not understand concerning what Yeshua said, it's typically found in the Book of Revelation and it has not happened yet for us to completely understand what He meant, and NOTHING ELSE!!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

He said it is so basic and simple the wise would be confused over it.

In other words, If Yeshua said, the moon will rise at sunset.
The wise would break it down ten thousand ways and never get that all the moon is going to do is rise at sunset.
They would overthink it.

The intelligent believe something must be complex for it to be correct. That is the very opposite of God. When we do find things that we do not understand concerning what Yeshua said, it's typically found in the Book of Revelation and it has not happened yet for us to completely understand what He meant, and NOTHING ELSE!!

I do commend you for being diligent in your study of the scriptures, and , yes, there are a lot of scripture that I can not explain, but I am thankful for the revelation of some truths about the doctrine that Jesus taught. I find it to be the most comforting and rewarding and secure doctrine of all that I have heard. None can even come close to compare to it.

 

[Macabeus]

Romans 4:5-6 tells us that "faith" is not a "work":

"However, to the one not working, but believing on the One justifying the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness, just as David also declares the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

Amen...and repentance is not a work either. It is a response to the grace of God just as faith is.

and have a clean, changed heart is not a work. It is a result of saving faith. It is a work of God

...and a changed heart results in a changed life

Regeneration is part of salvation

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Amen...and repentance is not a work either. It is a response to the grace of God just as faith is.

and have a clean, changed heart is not a work. It is a result of saving faith. It is a work of God

...and a changed heart results in a changed life

Regeneration is part of salvation

You are right that having a changed heart and faith in God is not man's work, but is the work of God, without the help of man, however, repentance = taking action to gain forgiveness is a work of the born again child of God to get God to forgive him and regain God's fellowship. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. He does not yet have the changed heart that can be pricked to feel guilty.

 

[Macabeus]

You are right that having a changed heart and faith in God is not man's work, but is the work of God, without the help of man, however, repentance = taking action to gain forgiveness is a work of the born again child of God to get God to forgive him and regain God's fellowship. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14 will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. He does not yet have the changed heart that can be pricked to feel guilty.

Repentance is usually, if not always mentioned before faith. Repent and believe the Gospel spoken by both Jesus and John the Baptist. repentance towards God and faith in Jesus, spoken by Peter, etc. They are both results of a Divine work of Grace and a response to Grace.

Neither faith nor repentance are a meritorious work, because they are gifts of God, wrought by His Spirit, resulting in a response from us. Some people think that anything "we do" is a work. But if it is accomplished and wrought by God's Spirit, it is a gift, not a meritorious work, for it originates from Him, and not us.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Repentance is usually, if not always mentioned before faith. Repent and believe the Gospel spoken by both Jesus and John the Baptist. repentance towards God and faith in Jesus, spoken by Peter, etc. They are both results of a Divine work of Grace and a response to Grace.

Neither faith nor repentance are a meritorious work, because they are gifts of God, wrought by His Spirit, resulting in a response from us. Some people think that anything "we do" is a work. But if it is accomplished and wrought by God's Spirit, it is a gift, not a meritorious work, for it originates from Him, and not us.

After we are born again, and sin, the Holy Spirit pricks our new and absorbent heart and causes us to feel guilt, we then respond by our act of repenting. Unless we repent, there is no forgiveness, making it dependent upon man to repent. The natural man does not have spiritual faith until he is born again and has received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which comes with regeneration. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5). Receiving the Holy Spirit is regeneration that produces spiritual faith and therefore comes before repentance and belief. The natural man,void of the Holy Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern.

 

[Macabeus]

After we are born again, and sin, the Holy Spirit pricks our new and absorbent heart and causes us to feel guilt, we then respond by our act of repenting. Unless we repent, there is no forgiveness, making it dependent upon man to repent. The natural man does not have spiritual faith until he is born again and has received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which comes with regeneration. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5). Receiving the Holy Spirit is regeneration that produces spiritual faith and therefore comes before repentance and belief. The natural man,void of the Holy Spirit, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern.

I believe that one hears the Word, is drawn by God, repents and believes by this work of grace of being drawn, and is regenerated immedietely.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I believe that one hears the Word, is drawn by God, repents and believes by this work of grace of being drawn, and is regenerated immedietely.

And what scriptures do you base your belief on?

 

[Guojing]

And what scriptures do you base your belief on?

Romans 10:17 sufficient for you?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 10:17 sufficient for you?

You are proclaiming that hearing and believing comes before regeneration and Romans 10:17 does not uphold that thought. John 10:26-27-28, But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. If they are his sheep, then they have already been regenerated before they hear and believe. Try another scripture.