Rapture= false teaching

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lecoop

Guest
there is no difference.

you encourage the jewish people to place their hope in a nonexistent future time, some future glorious temple.

you encourage Christians to expect a nonexistent pretribulation rapture.

how would you know anything about Mystery Babylon? humanism? please.
Except you are wrong: Paul disagrees with you, John disagrees with you, and Jesus does too, for that matter.
Did you tear out 1 Thes. from your bible?

We teach a truth; that Jesus is coming VERY SOON to take His bride to heaven. You and those you convince otherwise, will probably MISS the rapture, be left behind, and face the Beast. Good luck with that. But WHY would you set an appointment that God refuses to set for you? WHY are you determined to face events that Luke tells us we can escape?

Coop
 
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lecoop

Guest
COOP: Credibility= 0
I guess you despise prophecy, in spite of what the Bible tells you. I can highly encourage you to BELIEVE those prophecies, for they say exactly what the bible tells us: Jesus is coming SOON to take His bride home to heaven.

Now, if you wish to stay behind and tribulate, that is your privilege, but I can assure you, Jesus is not happy with ANY being left behind, and certainly not happy with people that teach against the truth of the Bible.

Perhaps you need to read 1 Thes. 5 yet again, and this time, take off your preconceived glasses. Paul gives us the TIMING of the rapture.

Coop
 
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lecoop

Guest
how dare you post some junk from some weird cult and claim its from JESUS?

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
How day you DISPISE prophecy, against the bible? If there is something false there, PROVE IT.

Coop
 
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lecoop

Guest
My faith is in Jesus Christ alone, not an event. I don't have faith in a Beast according to ANY timetable. Jesus + Rupture is not salvation.
Then you are ignoring what Jesus Himself said,that we must WATCH for His coming.

If you wish to tribulate, that is up to you. But don't try to take others with you. God did not set that appointment with ANYONE. They set it themselves.

Coop
 
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lecoop

Guest
ya.
they're called Christians now. and more are added to His Church every day. talk to any lately?

you're not calling for a temple? maybe not.......but you're believing it. what's the difference?
It was PAUL that tells us there will be a temple. Not to mention Ezekiel. Did you tear Ezekiel out of your bible too?

I have a suggestion: why not just BELIEVE what is written? Why try to fight against God?

Do propose that GENTILES from the US will fly to Israel, and become a part of those that flee into the wilderness at the midpoint of the week? Oh, that's right, you ignore that book too. For your information, both Jesus and John was speaking specifically to those living in JUDEA. If you go and look, that is descendants of Jacob. They are a REMNANT of Jacob, that will be saved. You can deny that until you see it with your own eyes. But denying it will certainly not prevent God from saving them.

Coop
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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ya.
they're called Christians now. and more are added to His Church every day. talk to any lately?

you're not calling for a temple? maybe not.......but you're believing it. what's the difference?
The difference is that I believe the prophets to be true, and that what they heard from God will happen, and I do not despise the nation of Israel, but hold out hope that they too will be saved.

Replacement theology is from the devil.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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The difference is that I believe the prophets to be true, and that what they heard from God will happen, and I do not despise the nation of Israel, but hold out hope that they too will be saved.

Replacement theology is from the devil.
1) the prophets told of Jesus, all the way to His Second Coming in JUDGMENT.
2) keep your "antisemitism" label....in fact, stcik it on yourself - your theology HURTS the jews.
3) replacement theology? of the devil? you can't seem to make up your mind WHO spiritual Israel is.
4) you're like so many - hedging your bets, unsure of what you believe, and unfaithful to Christ at the same time.

i'll post this, but i doubt you'll read it.

...Hagee terms this view "replacement theology" because, he says, it "replaces" in the economy of God the Jewish people who are, he says, "God's centerpiece" and "the apple of his eye" (Zechariah 2:8) with the church of Jesus Christ. Of course, Hagee's perception of ethnic Israel is in error, because ethnic Israel per se was never the center-piece of God's covenant program since, according to Paul, God's promises always applied only to the true spiritual Israel (that is, elect Israel) within ethnic Israel (Romans 9:6-13); and the land promises of the Old Testament, as we will show, were always to be viewed typologically....

Who Really Owns the "Holy Land"?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
It was PAUL that tells us there will be a temple. Not to mention Ezekiel. Did you tear Ezekiel out of your bible too?

I have a suggestion: why not just BELIEVE what is written? Why try to fight against God?

Do propose that GENTILES from the US will fly to Israel, and become a part of those that flee into the wilderness at the midpoint of the week? Oh, that's right, you ignore that book too. For your information, both Jesus and John was speaking specifically to those living in JUDEA. If you go and look, that is descendants of Jacob. They are a REMNANT of Jacob, that will be saved. You can deny that until you see it with your own eyes. But denying it will certainly not prevent God from saving them.

Coop
ezekiel saw New Jerusalem.
(i'm very well aware a remnant has always been preserved...i've always said EXACTLY that...i know a few - they call themselves Christians now - should they be ashamed of His Name?)

get real man.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Except you are wrong: Paul disagrees with you, John disagrees with you, and Jesus does too, for that matter.
Did you tear out 1 Thes. from your bible?

We teach a truth; that Jesus is coming VERY SOON to take His bride to heaven. You and those you convince otherwise, will probably MISS the rapture, be left behind, and face the Beast. Good luck with that. But WHY would you set an appointment that God refuses to set for you? WHY are you determined to face events that Luke tells us we can escape?

Coop
psssst....Christians are not appointed to WRATH.
is that the same as tribulation? ya figger?:rolleyes:

you've got somebody channeling 'jesus' directly - go ask her.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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there is no difference.

you encourage the jewish people to place their hope in a nonexistent future time, some future glorious temple.

you encourage Christians to expect a nonexistent pretribulation rapture.

how would you know anything about Mystery Babylon? humanism? please.
Zone,

Can the sarcasm please and just communicate what you have to say. You get into these moods and get so frivolous and flippant with your comments. We all have a capacity to learn and some are not so quick to utter what they know.
 
L

lecoop

Guest
ezekiel saw New Jerusalem.
(i'm very well aware a remnant has always been preserved...i've always said EXACTLY that...i know a few - they call themselves Christians now - should they be ashamed of His Name?)

get real man.
This is REAL:

Revelation 7

1And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.


Will you try to make THESE into Gentile Christians?

What does God say of these?

Rev 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb
.

If these 144,000 are FIRSTfruits, then please explain to us who the SECOND and THIRD and FOURTH etc fruits are? when someone uses "first" that always means there are others to follow.

Now, can YOU find the others?

Coop
 
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lecoop

Guest
psssst....Christians are not appointed to WRATH.
is that the same as tribulation? ya figger?:rolleyes:

you've got somebody channeling 'jesus' directly - go ask her.
If you understood the chronology of Revelation, you would already know that while God's wrath is being poured out, the Beast is murdering believers by the millions.

Did you never read that the fifth vial of His wrath is poured out on the seat of the beast? And that the first vial is poured out on those that worship the Beast and his image? What is happening on earth when these vials are poured out? Of course GREAT TRIBULATION.

So roll your eyes all you wish: you are simply wrong, as usual. God is taking His bride OUT of the earth before ANY of the 70th week comes. That means the bride will have been in heaven about 3.5 years BEFORE the abomination that divides the week comes, and then those days of GT that Jesus spoke of comes. But, just so you know, God's wrath BEGINS with the first trumpet judgment. The pretrib rapture of the church will come BEFORE that event too.

It is clear that you know very little if anything about prophecy.

Coop
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
It was PAUL that tells us there will be a temple. Not to mention Ezekiel. Did you tear Ezekiel out of your bible too?

I have a suggestion: why not just BELIEVE what is written? Why try to fight against God?

Do propose that GENTILES from the US will fly to Israel, and become a part of those that flee into the wilderness at the midpoint of the week? Oh, that's right, you ignore that book too. For your information, both Jesus and John was speaking specifically to those living in JUDEA. If you go and look, that is descendants of Jacob. They are a REMNANT of Jacob, that will be saved. You can deny that until you see it with your own eyes. But denying it will certainly not prevent God from saving them.

Coop
Dear lecoop, Jesus said, "No man knows the day nor the hour, but only My Father Who is in heaven .."
Christians who attempt to know the future with certainty defy this saying of Christ, that no one can know when the end times are. The Bible is not a great book of prophecy designed to spell out in detail the exact end time course of the future, but a law book and a guide in the Holy Spirit for living a moral, ethical, Christian life in the present age before the Second Coming of Christ. Also, the rapture is said to be secret. Only the elect will see it, supposedly. It also divides the second coming into 2 phases. Where does the scripture teach 3 comings of Christ? Also, when Christ comes again, the Scripture says, "Every eye will see Him ..." Every human being will see Christ at the second coming, not just His Church or the Christians, the people, who are redeemed and saved by Him by believing in Him and in His blood of the Cross and His resurrection for salvation. We who believe in Christ will be saved by Christ. We should not speculate about the future, but live Spirit-filled lives here and now. Then we will be ready for Christ when He comes again. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington
 
L

lecoop

Guest
1) the prophets told of Jesus, all the way to His Second Coming in JUDGMENT.
2) keep your "antisemitism" label....in fact, stcik it on yourself - your theology HURTS the jews.
3) replacement theology? of the devil? you can't seem to make up your mind WHO spiritual Israel is.
4) you're like so many - hedging your bets, unsure of what you believe, and unfaithful to Christ at the same time.

i'll post this, but i doubt you'll read it.

...Hagee terms this view "replacement theology" because, he says, it "replaces" in the economy of God the Jewish people who are, he says, "God's centerpiece" and "the apple of his eye" (Zechariah 2:8) with the church of Jesus Christ. Of course, Hagee's perception of ethnic Israel is in error, because ethnic Israel per se was never the center-piece of God's covenant program since, according to Paul, God's promises always applied only to the true spiritual Israel (that is, elect Israel) within ethnic Israel (Romans 9:6-13); and the land promises of the Old Testament, as we will show, were always to be viewed typologically....

Who Really Owns the "Holy Land"?

God gave it to Abraham. He has never taken in back. Soon, they will get it all back, and it will never again be taken from them. But before that, someone will divided it, and they will be VERY sorry they did. God will absolutely not put up with that, and will bring SWIFT judgment on whoever divides Israel.

Coop
 
S

Scotth1960

Guest
The difference is that I believe the prophets to be true, and that what they heard from God will happen, and I do not despise the nation of Israel, but hold out hope that they too will be saved.

Replacement theology is from the devil.
Dispensationalism and pretribulation rapture theology is from the devil.
The idea that Israel has replaced the Church is from the devil.
Israel will be grafted back into Christ, in the Church. There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved, than the name of Jesus Christ. We are not saved in the name of Israel or of the Jews. In Christ there are no Jews and there are no Gentiles. There are only born again Christians. (John 3:3,5,16).
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
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Dispensationalism and pretribulation rapture theology is from the devil.
The idea that Israel has replaced the Church is from the devil.
Israel will be grafted back into Christ, in the Church. There is no other name given under heaven whereby we must be saved, than the name of Jesus Christ. We are not saved in the name of Israel or of the Jews. In Christ there are no Jews and there are no Gentiles. There are only born again Christians. (John 3:3,5,16).
Odd, seeing how Paul wrote that we have been grafted into Israel, not the other way around.

No one said anything about there being another name by which one can be saved.
 
Jan 14, 2010
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covenant theology has never said it replaces Israel... it teaches that the church was hidden within Israel, & only through Christ, are men made a new creation... a circumcision of the spirit, not the flesh...

it's Christian Zionism that splits the church & Israel into 2 seperate groups, 2 different paths, two different ways of salvation , & worships Israel rather than God... replacement theology?... it's Christian Zionism that replaces Yahweh God w/ the nation of Israel. if anything, Christian Zionism/Dispensationalism is replacement theology.
 
Feb 14, 2011
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I do not know how it can be so dangerous to believe in the rapture when the belief in the rapture is to be always ready by keeping the faith in Jesus Christ. That is the good fight. And I do that by the grace of God as I rely on Him to live as His and abide in Him.

Jesus warned of false prophets coming into the Gentile churches thus leading to judgment falling on the House of God first... the reason for watching and being ready. It is afterwards that the despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews because of the falling away of the faith in the Gentiles churches that warranted this judgment whereas only a few will be found keeping that faith.

So for believers thinking that the rapture is some fairytake escape to get out of the great tribulation... no. The rapture is judgment on the House of God as the foolish virgins and the prodigal sons will be left behind where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but He will finish the work He has begun in them as God the Father will scourge every child He receives.. even if it means going through the great tribulation. ( See Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 with Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30)

Then the evil that falls on all flesh is.. to take the mark of the beast to survive in the New World Order.. or... to live by faith in the Son of God to even die for Him if need be.

So the call is now.. to be ready... abide in Him as you trust Him to help you keep the faith in Jesus Christ in His righteousness which is your wedding garment.

Philippians 3:14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3: 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

1 Peter 4:16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

His appearing is a singular event before the great tribulation as the coming of his kingdom is the secondary pre-post great tribulation event.... thus two judgmental event. How can Armegeddon include the House of God when they are to be judged first apart from this coming battle?


2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Note the appearing? Not a reference to his kingdom... cause the saints will be coming back with Him at the battle of Armegeddon.

Look at how God charged those seven churches in Revelation to be ready:

Revelation 2:21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

See that? If they do not repent of their fornication, they are to be casted into the great tribulation.

Revelation 3:9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

"...from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" is the great tribulation.

What crown is that? The one given at His appearing.

2 Timothy 4:7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

So the rapture is judgment on the House of God first at His appearing because of the falling away of the faith in which the Gentiles whom got the despensation of the Gospel because the Jews rejected Jesus as Their Messiah, but now, due to the falling away of the faith, the despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses + for the great tribulation period.

May the Lord keep me in His grace by having me ready and abiding in Him for His appearing to His glory.

1 John 3: 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
I am certain that if you are abiding in Christ in keeping the faith, you will not be complaining when He brings you Home for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I am sure anyone's speechlessness will be followed by outbursts of praise and singing. :)
ANY CHURCH PREACHING ERROR, DOES NOT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. JUST IMAGIN THE APOSTLES
MAKING MISTAKES IN THEIR PREACHING, WHERE WILL WE BE NOW?
 
Feb 14, 2011
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1 thes. 4:13-18 Jesus does not touch down on earth as He does post trib, these are seperate events not a false teaching.

1th 4:13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.1th 4:14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.1th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.1th 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:1th 4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.1th 4:18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


If you want to go through the tribulation period go ahead, but I am meeting Him in the air as thus saith the Lord

YOU WORSHIP JESUS I BELIEVE, BUT WHY ON EARTH DONT YOU LISTEN TO HIS WORDS?
HE PLAINLY SAYS ,IN MATHEW24:29. IMMEDIATELY ===AFTER===AFTER. ==THE TRIB?????

YOU CAN ,NOT MAKE HIM A LIAR. THY WORD IS TRUTH.