A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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Perhaps if you weren't so preoccupied with babble, you would actually hear what people actually say!
 
VCO said:
You may Know this, but just in Case, I will give you a DEEPER understanding about Baptism.

Yes I was what Lutherans call baptized as an infant, I now know it was no more than dedicating that child to the LORD. But that is not what I am talking about. When we step out in OBEDIENCE to be Baptized in the Waters of a Baptistery, River, or Even A Lake, that is a Public Identification with the LORD. In particular, we are Identified with HIS Death, Burial, and Resurrection to the NEWNESS of Eternal Life. But that is NOT the ONE BAPTISM that SAVES. That happens the MOMENT we REPENT, and Receive HIM as LORD (Master) of our Lives, PURELY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM. At that very moment the Holy Spirit, enters our hearts (human spirit), Never to Leave Us, pouring GOD's LOVE in our Hearts (Rom. 5:5), Births our Dead Human Spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, and THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONE THAT BAPTIZES (IMMERSES) US INTO LITERALLY THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. THAT IS THE ONE BAPTISM THAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IN THIS VERSE.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


That is the BAPTISM THAT SAVES, while climbing into a Baptistery, is just an important part of our CHRISTIAN WALK WITH CHRIST, that happens after we are saved. Ideally, it should be one of our FIRST STEPS of OBEDIENCE.


I know this is yet another hotbed of Contention, but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.

They will want to ARGUE that Christian Water Baptism does to SAVE.

Not according to this VERSE:


1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat.
Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
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AMEN!!

My simple point, was merely the fact an infant has no awareness of what right/wrong is. They are not able to choose one way or another. Plus, I believe until a child is old enough to understand and at the age of accountability, that child is saved. God would definitely have Mercy!!

And concerning an infant Dedication, I am definitely all for that!!
 
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This thread ought to be titled a non-charismatic misunderstanding of tongues.

Cos clearly they dont understand it. Its not even for them to understand...its for God to understand because God knows all tongues. He invented them.

Right in the beginning of creation, the very first thing God did, was SPEAK.
Every time He created something, He spoke it into existence first.

Our God is not silent and neither are we who believe in Him. Why is Jesus called the Word? Because He spoke what God wanted Him to say. And guess what a lot of it was NOT actually in the mother tongue of the Israelites, Hebrew. It was in Greek.

It was a way to show that God reaches out not just to the Israelites but to the gentiles who spoke another language that was foreign to them!

Am really over the monolingual people who dismiss Gods diversity of tongues. If Tongues really had ceased, nobody would be speaking a word praising God today. NOBODY.
 
Melach said:
i think the problem is the bible itself isnt orderly but can be used like a two-sided sword to prove all you wish.

thats why every topic is so divided. you can proof predestination or free will, tongues or no tongues, God chooses or we choose, not of works or of works, water baptism required or not required, baptism in the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit or name of Jesus, church is a continuation or fullfilment of israel and one people of God or israel and church are separate, rapture is pre-trib or post-trib, there is a literal millennial kingdom or there is not. God doesnt repent or God repents, salvation is easy or salvation is hard.

all the debates we have its because the bible says one thing here, another thing there and one side is using the other side, and one side is using the other.

what shall we do, brethren? the people who only had lets say one letter of paul werent confused, they didnt have the other books to jump around to, they had to stick to the context of that one book.

will there ever be a solution to this or do we have to wait for Jesus to return?
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Couple of points here. I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but the Bible is NOT the problem. How we discern it is. EVERYONE, myself included, thinks how they interpret Scripture and apply doctrine is THE right way, or they wouldn't believe what they do. But NO ONE has everything exactly right since we see things through a glass darkly.

Sometimes, like the predestination vs freewill issue for instance, it is simply a matter of some passages need to viewed from God's perspective, and separately from man's perspective.

I tried to tackle the diversity of thought on non- salvic, doctrines with limited success. You can check it out here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/is-there-anybody-out-there.182065/
 
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Lanolin said:
This thread ought to be titled a non-charismatic misunderstanding of tongues.

Cos clearly they dont understand it. Its not even for them to understand...its for God to understand because God knows all tongues. He invented them.

Right in the beginning of creation, the very first thing God did, was SPEAK.
Every time He created something, He spoke it into existence first.

Our God is not silent and neither are we who believe in Him. Why is Jesus called the Word? Because He spoke what God wanted Him to say. And guess what a lot of it was NOT actually in the mother tongue of the Israelites, Hebrew. It was in Greek.

It was a way to show that God reaches out not just to the Israelites but to the gentiles who spoke another language that was foreign to them!

Am really over the monolingual people who dismiss Gods diversity of tongues. If Tongues really had ceased, nobody would be speaking a word praising God today. NOBODY.
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Who uses the words tongue for language anymore?

No languages have not ceased your are correct.
 
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PennEd said:
Couple of points here. I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but the Bible is NOT the problem. How we discern it is. EVERYONE, myself included, thinks how they interpret Scripture and apply doctrine is THE right way, or they wouldn't believe what they do. But NO ONE has everything exactly right since we see things through a glass darkly.

Sometimes, like the predestination vs freewill issue for instance, it is simply a matter of some passages need to viewed from God's perspective, and separately from man's perspective.

I tried to tackle the diversity of thought on non- salvic, doctrines with limited success. You can check it out here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/is-there-anybody-out-there.182065/
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im sorry i did say it wrongly. english isnt my real language. i didnt mean to say that bible is like a bad thing.

what i was trying to say was what you said.

i cant remember where i hear this but someone said: "i can prove peter was in the garden tempting eve. look here Jesus says to peter get thee behind me satan, who was tempting eve in the garden? satan right? proof peter was in the garden".

i was amazed at it because its so fitting but we know its obviously not true. but thats a sign you can twist the bible and make it look right. we have to be consistent and careful
 
GtrPkr said:
NOBODY IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD DISPUTES THE VALIDITY OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES!!! Quit putting words in my mouth!
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Are you kidding me?! What thread have you been reading?! Tongues have been attacked, mocked, called demon possession and made up babble!! Seriously man. You can't be reading the same thing. I put no words in your mouth, I posted YOUR OWN WORDS. Don't try and say you're the victim now. smh
 
GtrPkr said:
Perhaps if you weren't so preoccupied with babble, you would actually hear what people actually say!
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And there's my point made. "Babble". The only thing that is babbling here is the OP. The thread is a total waste.
 
VCO said:
In my study, I recorded an event that happened in the Biggest Charismatic Church in Dallas about 4 decades ago. Students from Dallas Theological Seminary decided that they wanted to test the Interpreter at the big Charismatic Church. So one of them Memorized the 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, so they waited the following Sunday until two others spoke in tongues, and they Noticed both times one member of the Congregation gave the Interpretation. Then the Dallas Theological Seminary with the Memorized 23rd Psalm in Hebrew, stood up and Gave his memorized 23rd Psalm, and SURE ENOUGH the same member of the Congregation stood up and GAVE a very Biblical so called Interpretation. THE ONLY PROBLEM, IS NOT ONE WORD OF HIS INTERPRETATION CAME FROM THE 23rd PSALM.

BUSTED!
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Same thing happened with my aunt

Sadly this happens far to often
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Same thing happened with my aunt

Sadly this happens far to often
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It's funny to me that when "proofs" are given that tongues are false everyone here on the "tongues have ceased" crowd are all up in it. When I or others here give "proof" like when I told of my pastor friend that became saved through tongues he heard in his own language, your side says "well that's just a story,you can't believe a story".You're the most reasonable one here, can you explain to me how that works? Because I don't see that as a fair discussion, I see that as biased.
 
kaylagrl said:
It's funny to me that when "proofs" are given that tongues are false everyone here on the "tongues have ceased" crowd are all up in it. When I or others here give "proof" like when I told of my pastor friend that became saved through tongues he heard in his own language, your side says "well that's just a story,you can't believe a story".You're the most reasonable one here, can you explain to me how that works? Because I don't see that as a fair discussion, I see that as biased.
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Its funny how when you said that, I agreed with you and praised God. And claimed that is how tongues should work

And then because I saw something I have seen and many others have, You forgot that whole conversation we had thinking I am attacking you :rolleyes:
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Its funny how when you said that, I agreed with you and praised God. And claimed that is how tongues should work

And then because I saw something I have seen and many others have, You forgot that whole conversation we had thinking I am attacking you :rolleyes:
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EG....tongues are not a separate entity they are languages
 
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UnderGrace said:
EG....tongues are not a separate entity they are languages
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I know this sis.. thank you

Sadly we have kept the 1600’s old english word and turned it into some religious thing, instead of using the modern word which is in use today
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Its funny how when you said that, I agreed with you and praised God. And claimed that is how tongues should work

And then because I saw something I have seen and many others have, You forgot that whole conversation we had thinking I am attacking you :rolleyes:
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That must have gone over my head, I didn't think you were attacking me. I was just asking the question. You seem in the middle to me so I asked your opinion.
 
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