Are these beliefs sufficient for salvation?
- Thread starter LeeLoving
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes I am sure because of my faith. But faith must stand tests. Faith bears fruit. Faith gets us the Holy Spirit. God will keep us until the day of His return. He will preserve us and keep us from falling. He will build us unto perfection. That is the goal of the believer. To completly stand right before God in repentance. Leading others likemided in One mind One Body One accord. Exhorting one another edifying the body, the church of Christ.
Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
This chapter is for you my brother. I know you been taught that we cannot lose salvation but Jesus says otherwise. He will blot out the name of people whos names were written in the lambs book of life. So it must mean you can lose salvation if your name was once in the lambs book of life. Read Revelation 3 it is written to the churches. And please advise this is not hermenutics.
Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
I agree with you. Paul is talking about outward expression of our inner faith.
Whether other people can understand our expression, is less important than its
expression.
This is also a good example of the precepts being expressed not an all encompassing
statement of truth. It is like Jesus saying we should remove our eye if it causes us
to sin, emphasing the importance of avoiding sin and not compromising, but not
actually encouraging self mutilation.
Interesting, so you are saying you are sure of your own salvation because you believe your faith have stood the test.
But if another Christian ask you whether he will be saved, you will reply to him, "I don't know, do YOU think YOUR faith have stood the test?"
Fascinating perspective you have there.
So going back to my original question, you believe that God will impute sin onto the believer if he does not confess his sin to God and take steps to make sure he stop committing that particular sin. Is that a yes?
Incidentally, Romans 5:12-19 is not a difficult context to understand what vs 13 is saying. The entire passage talks about sin as a noun and not a verb. It was Adam's disobedience that caused all of us to be separated from God. It is the sinful nature that we inherited and not the individual sins we committed.
Once you understand this, you will understand that it was Christ's obedience that redeemed us back to God. So, in my belief, saying that our sins, after we are saved, can separate us from God is wrong doctrine.
Note, this does not mean I am saying that you can therefore go ahead and sin.
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe<-----the simplicity found in Christ
If you believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved
He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life
If you believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved
He that believes on the SON is having everlasting life
Jesus did die on the cross for your sins but you have to contritely confess these sins and also repent of them. That does not mean that you won't occasionally sin but at that time just tell God that you're sorry. Invite the Holy Spirit to live in your heart to comfort and guild you in the repentance process, that which will probably take the rest of your life.
Actually, if you understand Romans 5:12-19, it is not our individual sins that separated us from God, its the sin of Adam's disobedience.
Of course, at the point of conversion it does not matter, but it will stunt your Christian renewal of mind if you then try to "maintain salvation" by your own actions.
So going back to my original question, you believe that God will impute sin onto the believer if he does not confess his sin to God and take steps to make sure he stop committing that particular sin. Is that a yes?
Incidentally, Romans 5:12-19 is not a difficult context to understand what vs 13 is saying. The entire passage talks about sin as a noun and not a verb. It was Adam's disobedience that caused all of us to be separated from God. It is the sinful nature that we inherited and not the individual sins we committed.
Once you understand this, you will understand that it was Christ's obedience that redeemed us back to God. So, in my belief, saying that our sins, after we are saved, can separate us from God is wrong doctrine.
Note, this does not mean I am saying that you can therefore go ahead and sin.
When does this happen?
Thats not what I said. You jump too fast at your assumptions. Faith cannot stop. You must continue in faith. So how can I say my faith withstood if im still alive? My life isnt over.
I know that my faith has been tested and is still being tested. And I have shown alot of improvement. I dont plan to fail. My faith is not done being tested atleast not until I am dead.
You dont know my personal life. You assume little based on nothing. You dont comprehend what Ive been trying to get through to you because you have a stronghold. Your beliefs are off. You believe more in Paul than you do Jesus Christ. You follow more what Paul speaks than what Jesus Christ taught. Because they conflict with your beliefs. Which will not save you. Only Jesus can save you. If you believe in Jesus you would love Him and obey Him and His commands..
..But you want to keep your beliefs even though they contradict the bible.
It doesnt. Hes lost his marbles. Believing a false doctrine. From what I gather its dispensational grace. Mixed with once saved always saved. Wrapped up in the under grace banner.
But it doesnt hold water. 1 John 1 says if we deny we sin we call God a liar. Now im not gonna quote Guojing, but it sounds like Guojing doesnt meet the same standards as everyone else when it comes to sin. He believes God only sees Guojing robed in righteousness. Regarless of his actions or behavior as sinful as they may be.
If this is true then we dont need to confess our sins or seek forgiveness. All that is in the past, Jesus finished it. But this doesnt hold up with scripture. Therefore my question is to Guojing, are you calling God a liar?
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
See this is where Guojings doctrine doesnt stand up when lining it up with the Word of God. My question to Guojing is how can anyone profane or outrage the Holy Spirit of grace by deliberatly sinning if the person who sins under grace cannot in any way be imputed these sins according to you? How do you explain your "belief" Guojing when comparing it to the scriptures? Please save me the hermenutics if you will.
Oh in that case your answer is misleading. When I ask "So your belief is that no one can be sure of their salvation while they are living on this earth?"
You should not have replied with
Ordinary readers who cannot read your mind will interpret as what I did. You are saying that you are sure because of your faith.
So I conclude that your answer instead is the following
Yes, no one can be sure of their salvation while they are living on this earth. I myself am not even sure my faith will withstand until I pass away, what's more others.
Is that what you really meant?
I have no idea why TLC is answering for me. But it happens as v17 says
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ
I don't believe in universal-ism, you have to receive it by faith. Of course, the reformed Baptists will think otherwise, are you one of them?
Chill, I am saying John is not writing to believers in his first chapter of his epistle. He is writing to Gnostic.
As for your quote from Hebrews, the context is those Jewish believers who continue to go back to lamb sacrifice, even after they received the truth that Jesus is the final sacrifice. That is the sin that it was referring to.
You must learn to agree to disagree, as well as to respect other people's beliefs, as I do with yours.
As you can see from all the discussion threads about faith vs works, different Christians have different conclusions on whether is it just believing only, or believing + some kind of works to show that your belief is "real", "saving" "true", "genuine" etc etc
The way to be saved is not "believing only" nor is it believing plus works.
Salvation is by believing in Jesus Christ.
And correctly understood that is not even close to what is usually meant by "believing only"!
In relation to the opening question of the OP - if the person believes in Jesus Christ then he is saved. It is not knowledge of facts (which you give) but belief in Jesus (who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life).
And that is usually how people resort to circular arguments, to sneak works in thru the backdoor.
At least Hunger is brave enough to state it without resorting to that, I respect him for that.
When you stated that Paul: "He was still a sinner as we all are.
If you believe in the Spirit, Soul and Body, you will not say that Christians ARE still sinners.
We WERE sinners, but now, our Spirit is as righteous as Jesus himself because he is our righteousness.
Words are powerful things. They can be useful, but also misleading. Communication is reliant on two people having the same comprehension of the words. Were sinners and are sinners, these are the kinds of things that cause people to stumble. That’s why Jesus told stories. Everyone loves a good story.
There are two boys. One boy runs every day, works out and is on a competitive baseball team. Sometimes he skips the gym and occasionally has dessert. The other boy eats what he wants, runs if he’s late for something and shows up to all of the other boys games wearing the same uniform and sits in proximity of the team cheering them on. To others watching he might look like he’s part of the team. He might even think he’s part of the team. However it is ultimately the coach who makes the roster. One boy will get a trophy when they win the championship and the other will not. Either you are an athlete who is on the team or an imposter. Just because the athlete ate cake (sin) doesn’t get him kicked off the team. Neither does the boy dressing up and coming to every game get him a trophy.
Is it that actions of sin cannot be imputed to us, or the nature of sin that has affected us?