Are these beliefs sufficient for salvation?

[TLC209]

I enjoyed your post sir. You made me chuckle a bit.
And I have been saying the same as you for quite some time now, only, I don't tell them they are not saved, I say, "I question your salvation."

I would sugar coat simple things that have no value. But when it comes to Jesus I dont sugar coat or water down. Its better to be bold if you are firm footed. Why make someone believe a fairytale ending if you can see the crater of an error? But thats just that way I choose to do things. The bible teaches us to judge our brothers in Christ if they are in error or sin. We do it with Godly intentions. Says to correct someone twice and after that have nothing to do with them if they will not heed council.

The bible says few find the narrow gate. In my experiences with people, people choose the easy way out. So it doesnt surprise me to see people try to make the bible meet these needs. But Jesus taught something very radical. And Jesus is Lord. So who am I to argue scripture or much less Jesus Christ. What Jesus taught in the flesh does not have less value than the ressurected Christ. We will all perish the heavens and the earth will fall away but His Word will remain. So I believe what Jesus taught. His Words are golden. And I try to impliment it to my life to the best of my ability.

I agree with your erlier post. Believing is the first step we take in this new life. It begins with fellow Christians reaching out and sharing the good news about Jesus. Faith comes thru hearing the Word of God. And once that takes form I agree we start to see things that we once did, not be according to how God wants us to be. So thats the turning point. One must choose. Remain in sin, or repent and follow Christ. Us Christians choose to follow the light.

The closer we draw the more we must shed off. For instance the more easier sins are first quickly dropped. The harder sins that require more perserverance come with time. The more sinful the person the more they must leave behind. It is a daily walk. Anger, unforgiveness, lust, foul language, bitterness, indulgences must all be dealt with. Someone who dealt lightly in sin, may have an easier transition. Every one is different but the walk is the same. We are all trying to reach the same goal.

When people teach otherwise, such as not having to deal with sins and they don't affect your Christian walk is like hearing blasphemy to me. How could I believe that to be true when scripture teaches otherwise. And to have these people so assured of their salvation makes me question if they are truly Christians.

I dont like to hear people corrupting the Word of God and I dont like seeing people headed in the wrong direction. I am open to learning from scripture, I am a student in Christ. But not if its man made doctrine. Or someones personal belief that doesnt line up with scripture. Especially if it involves hermenutics.

 

[TLC209]

Well, you can think of it this way. The Law was never given to the Gentiles, only the Jews.

Jesus first coming was for the Jews, and he was there to fulfill the law so he has to preach obedience to the Law. Matthew 5:19

The Gentiles were only included in the covenant after the Jews rejected Jesus for the final time in Acts (Romans 11:11)

Yet, what do some Gentiles do here? They want to go back to the Law after they are saved by Grace.

Does the law and sin mean the same thing to you? When you say they wanted to go back to the law, what does that mean to you?

Circumcision, sacrifices, the temple and priests, tithes? What exactly do you mean? Because you include the commandments in the law im assuming?

 

[Guojing]

Does the law and sin mean the same thing to you? When you say they wanted to go back to the law, what does that mean to you?

Circumcision, sacrifices, the temple and priests, tithes? What exactly do you mean? Because you include the commandments in the law im assuming?

Romans 7:7 makes it pretty clear, to me, that whenever Paul talks about the Law, it is a composite whole, including moral law. He even quoted one of the 10 commandments in that verse.

Thus, when he says we are not under Law, it refers to the composite whole. Only human beings try to separate the Law into ceremonial law vs moral law.

 

[TLC209]

Romans 7:7 makes it pretty clear, to me, that whenever Paul talks about the Law, it is a composite whole, including moral law. He even quoted one of the 10 commandments in that verse.

Thus, when he says we are not under Law, it refers to the composite whole. Only human beings try to separate the Law into ceremonial law vs moral law.

So according to your belief murder is ok? That will not be imputed correct? Thus if there is the option to kill.. what do you say? The law does not apply to the believer?

 

[Guojing]

So according to your belief murder is ok? That will not be imputed correct? Thus if there is the option to kill.. what do you say? The law does not apply to the believer?

Depends on what you mean by okay. U should elaborate.

Incidentally didn’t Jesus himself said that being angry with your Brother is murder in the eyes of the law?

 

[Hungry]

Depends on what you mean by okay. U should elaborate.

Incidentally didn’t Jesus himself said that being angry with your Brother is murder in the eyes of the law?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Notice it states “were some of you”, not, “are some of you”.

Paul doesn’t save us. Paul is trying to point to Christ, the Saviour. Paul is not the Gate. We are not the Body of Paul. At the Judgement Paul will be shaking his head at you. You state “throwing in the gospels for good measure” as if the words of Christ are adding to scripture. He is not only saying murder is not acceptable, He is saying hating is also.

Being born again doesn’t imply your debt is wiped out and you get a charge account at no cost. The whole point is that sin is based on desires of the flesh. Murder and hate and covetousness are all because of greed and lust. When we are “in Christ” we are spirit minded. If your purpose in life as a Christian is to love your neighbour, why would you want to steal his wife, tell lies about him at work, and hope he gets fired so you can have his job?

There is no judgement against those in Christ because they wouldn’t do those things. If they did, they either aren’t in Christ or they would be so convicted they would confess and beg forgiveness from God and man.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Depends on what you mean by okay. U should elaborate.
Incidentally didn’t Jesus himself said that being angry with your Brother is murder in the eyes of the law?

This is an interesting point. Why is being angry with ones brother wrong?

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
Matt 5

Do believers in discussing faith, get angry and want to destroy the other party?
In some discussions words like "anti-christ" "greatest evil on earth" "doomed to hell"
"leading others to the pit" have been used.

In our walk with Jesus, unless love rules our hearts we have lost it, and should stop.
No enemy, no foe, needs anything but Gods love and peace, His forgiveness and their
hearts being opened for His cleansing and purification. Literally nothing else can be
progressed until this is done.

 

[Guojing]

This is an interesting point. Why is being angry with ones brother wrong?

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
Matt 5

Do believers in discussing faith, get angry and want to destroy the other party?
In some discussions words like "anti-christ" "greatest evil on earth" "doomed to hell"
"leading others to the pit" have been used.

In our walk with Jesus, unless love rules our hearts we have lost it, and should stop.
No enemy, no foe, needs anything but Gods love and peace, His forgiveness and their
hearts being opened for His cleansing and purification. Literally nothing else can be
progressed until this is done.

I believe one of Jesus's objective of the Sermon of the Mount, is to make the Law so impossible to fulfill that the Jews would give up seeking justification from the Law, and instead turn to Jesus to save them.

The purpose of the Law is to make us turn to Christ, as Paul often stated. God ordained it that way when he gave the Law at Mount Sinai.

So I find it pretty sad that, we try to return back to the Law for whatever reason, after we are saved by Grace, especially for Gentiles, who were never ever part of the Law.

 

[tourist]

I'm going to guess by saying, you've been taught that doctrine by your church and/or pastor, right?

I don't trust any church or pastor's doctrine but rely strictly on scripture as I am led to understand and practice by the Holy Spirit. Your guess is wrong.

 

[Adstar]

Do you believe that God sees us in our spirit? He can of course see us in the flesh too but in his wisdom, he relates to our Spirit by his Spirit.

Thus, do you think God sees your sins after you are covered with Jesus's robe of righteousness?

Once you comprehend this, the power of sin is broken in you.

Again this does not mean we cease to sin... We continue to sin... And all those sins are covered by the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ.. The false doctrine that comes about by those who declare that we are now sinless is the teaching that if you are saved you will cease sinning.. Sinlessness in the flesh doctrines are derived from people hearing that preaching without understanding it is about how God sees us because of the covering of the Blood of Jesus.. Not how we are in actuality from day to day...

Many people end up depressed and near suicidal because they come to believe they should have stopped sinning and the conclusion they come to when the fail to stop sinning is that they where never saved and God does not want to save them.. I hear from these types of people who go to altar call after altar call week in week, one church to the next to get saved again and again and again because they did some sin during the week between altar calls.. They get baptized again and again move from this denomination to the next hoping that this time they will be transformed into the sinless beings they believe they need to be to be saved..

 

[preston39]

Salvation does not take place because of anyone's repentance of sin, but because of their repentance of doubting the word of God, by believing the gospel, and acting on that belief to receive Jesus/the truth, personally,

Double talk...pure double talk. Why?

 

[preston39]

I don't trust any church or pastor's doctrine but rely strictly on scripture as I am led to understand and practice by the Holy Spirit. Your guess is wrong.

Glad to know more Christians are waking up. I thought I was alone.
Bless your understanding.

 

[preston39]

Depends on what you mean by okay. U should elaborate.

Incidentally didn’t Jesus himself said that being angry with your Brother is murder in the eyes of the law?

I believe I know the scripture you refer but, the way you word it makes me wonder.
Please show reference.

 

[Guojing]

I believe I know the scripture you refer but, the way you word it makes me wonder.
Please show reference.

Matt 5 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I believe one of Jesus's objective of the Sermon of the Mount, is to make the Law so impossible to fulfill that the Jews would give up seeking justification from the Law, and instead turn to Jesus to save them.

 

[Guojing]

Again this does not mean we cease to sin... We continue to sin... And all those sins are covered by the Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ.. The false doctrine that comes about by those who declare that we are now sinless is the teaching that if you are saved you will cease sinning.. Sinlessness in the flesh doctrines are derived from people hearing that preaching without understanding it is about how God sees us because of the covering of the Blood of Jesus.. Not how we are in actuality from day to day...

Many people end up depressed and near suicidal because they come to believe they should have stopped sinning and the conclusion they come to when the fail to stop sinning is that they where never saved and God does not want to save them.. I hear from these types of people who go to altar call after altar call week in week, one church to the next to get saved again and again and again because they did some sin during the week between altar calls.. They get baptized again and again move from this denomination to the next hoping that this time they will be transformed into the sinless beings they believe they need to be to be saved..

I believed they end up depressed due to wrong preaching from the pulpit. They must learn to see themselves in the Spirit and recognize that their Spirit cannot sin once it is sealed by the HS.

All those passages in 1 John 2 and 3 saying that believers cannot sin is because God cannot see thru the blood of Jesus once they are covered by that blood.

(KJV) Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Just as the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat of the ark, God did not want to see all the signs of the Jews rebellion, the 10 commandments stone tablets which the Jews did not follow, the rejection of his chosen priest signified by Aaron's rod, as well as the pot of mana which the Jews rejected it as "worthless bread".

When the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat, God's eyes cannot see thru the blood of the lamb to witness all the sins the Jews committed. What's more the blood of Jesus that covers all of us under the new covenant will make our Spirit forever righteous in the eyes of God.

I believe if more churches preach like that instead, the power of sin will indeed be broken in all believers.

 

[TLC209]

I believed they end up depressed due to wrong preaching from the pulpit. They must learn to see themselves in the Spirit and recognize that their Spirit cannot sin once it is sealed by the HS.

All those passages in 1 John 2 and 3 saying that believers cannot sin is because God cannot see thru the blood of Jesus once they are covered by that blood.

(KJV) Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Just as the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat of the ark, God did not want to see all the signs of the Jews rebellion, the 10 commandments stone tablets which the Jews did not follow, the rejection of his chosen priest signified by Aaron's rod, as well as the pot of mana which the Jews rejected it as "worthless bread".

When the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat, God's eyes cannot see thru the blood of the lamb to witness all the sins the Jews committed. What's more the blood of Jesus that covers all of us under the new covenant will make our Spirit forever righteous in the eyes of God.

I believe if more churches preach like that instead, the power of sin will indeed be broken in all believers.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Sounds like the living God can see our sins. This was written by beloved Paul.

You claim God cannot see sins? Is your idea of God blind? This kind of preaching should be cast out of the pulpit.

God not only can see sin but He knows a mans heart. And all the wickedness of a mans heart. So being angry with a brother, is not merely an emotion. There is hatred in the mans heart. God can see that. He knows all about you.

 

[Jackson123]

That Jesus died on the cross to pay the penalty for my sins, that Jesus rose again on the third day, and that Jesus is Lord of all creation?

I think the devil believe all 3 mention above. But for salvation need believe in the sense of abide

 

[TLC209]

Depends on what you mean by okay. U should elaborate.

Incidentally didn’t Jesus himself said that being angry with your Brother is murder in the eyes of the law?

Murder is allowed in your view. Adultery, homosexuality, any all sins deemed corrupt in Gods eyes are viewed as abolished in your belief system. Grace covers all sins. Believing the gospel, accepting Christ's gift of grace and the forgiveness of sins, we are no longer bound to the law.

Try telling a group of killers locked in a cell waiting for the next victim that type of nonsense. Even a criminal knows when you come to Christ you can no longer commit the things a criminal is fond of doing. That is why Christianity is frowned upon in prison.

Homosexuals know that they are not allowed to practice homosexuality if they seek to be a Christian. Because the bible teaches against it and God is opposed. So no matter how you slice and dice it, its still sin. Your logical theory as to what grace is and how it blinds Gods periphreal vision is not at all merited.

Like I keep telling you, your beliefs don't hold water. Too many holes. Your singularity to your personal lifestyle and the few sins you occasionaly commit, minor as they may be, do not concur with the larger scale of the world we live in.

You cant teach the masses this kind of nonsense. You may not see it this way because maybe u gave the guy the finger while on your way to work after getting cut off, or maybe you hate your inlaws, maybe you cheated someone out of money, or maybe you lied to your wife.. I dont know your life. Im just saying. Minor details, nothing major.

You cant tell a killer, prostitute, homosexual, drug dealer, drug addict, homewrecker, rapist, pedofile etc. The gospel and tell them if they believe in Jesus Christ they are saved and God no longer sees their sins. They will carry on sinning and now you made Christ an accomplice. Thats what your view of dispensational grace sounds like to me. No need of repentance whatsoever. No consequences for sin. Washed by the blood....

And this is what you want preached in the pulpit... smh

 

[Guojing]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Sounds like the living God can see our sins. This was written by beloved Paul.

You claim God cannot see sins? Is your idea of God blind? This kind of preaching should be cast out of the pulpit.

God not only can see sin but He knows a mans heart. And all the wickedness of a mans heart. So being angry with a brother, is not merely an emotion. There is hatred in the mans heart. God can see that. He knows all about you.

Why are you still using this Hebrew passage when I have already responded to you, that you are using it wrongly.

As for your quote from Hebrews, the context is those Jewish believers who continue to go back to lamb sacrifice, even after they received the truth that Jesus is the final sacrifice. That is the sin that it was referring to.

If you reject Jesus's as your righteousness and insist on going back to the lamb sacrifice which no longer works as a sacrifice for sin in the new covenant, you are definitely not covered with his robe, and thus God can see your sins.

 

[Guojing]

You cant tell a killer, prostitute, homosexual, drug dealer, drug addict, homewrecker, rapist, pedofile etc. The gospel and tell them if they believe in Jesus Christ they are saved and God no longer sees their sins. They will carry on sinning and now you made Christ an accomplice. Thats what your view of dispensational grace sounds like to me. No need of repentance whatsoever. No consequences for sin. Washed by the blood....

And this is what you want preached in the pulpit... smh

What makes you so sure "they will carry on sinning"? Paul had more confidence in the power of grace to break sin in people's lives than you.

Or do you not realized the strength of sin is the law? 1 Corinthians 15:56