Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit

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Is Joe guilty of blaspheme?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • No

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • It's not clear

    Votes: 5 26.3%
  • It doesn't apply

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • Total voters
    19
Jan 12, 2019
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So do you admit that your understanding of scriptures REJECTS and NULLIFIES the Lord's own words and rejecting His WORD is tantamount to rejecting Him and the One who sent Him? Very dangerous stance.
You don't realize that the Apostle Paul is your Apostle (Galatians 2:7-9), and his words are the words of the ascended Christ himself?

If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37).
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
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NIV1984 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
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You don't realize that the Apostle Paul is your Apostle (Galatians 2:7-9), and his words are the words of the ascended Christ himself?

If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord (1 Corinthians 14:37).
Would you say AMEN or do you disagree to this below?


NIV1984 Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
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Interesting you are saying this so confident now when previously, you were not even willing to say this with an unequivocal yes. :)

Long story short, rightfully dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15), into the word written to the church and the word written to the Jews (1 Cor 10:32), gave me the authority to do so :cool:
Is it your assertion that things written to the Jews do not apply to you? Or vice-versa? You sound like a candidate for the MRV!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Yes, he was the first to be saved under the dispensation of Grace, which as I have stated, has no more unforgivable sin. He explained it here in 1 Timothy 1

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Also in 1 Cor 10:8

And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time

God in his grace, allow the Gentiles to be included in the covenant of Abraham, and saved Paul first, as a pattern for all of us under the dispensation of Grace.

oh he was the first to be saved under grace was he?

right

except for the 3000+ on the day of Pentecost and all the believers gathered in the upper room

I guess it's useless to point out that Paul did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit by persecuting believers

maybe someone else will benefit though :cautious:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Interesting you are saying this so confident now when previously, you were not even willing to say this with an unequivocal yes. :)

Long story short, rightfully dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15), into the word written to the church and the word written to the Jews (1 Cor 10:32), gave me the authority to do so :cool:

oh the irony
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Would you say AMEN or do you disagree to this below?


NIV1984 Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
The Jews said Amen to the curses in Deut 27, but I don't because Jesus fulfilled the Law on my behalf. If you don't like to rightly divide the word, that is a choice you make.

Ironically, when I was asking you to stand your stand towards this previously, you refused. Will you now be willing to state that Christians who commit this "sin" will never be forgiven, no matter what they do?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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oh he was the first to be saved under grace was he?

right

except for the 3000+ on the day of Pentecost and all the believers gathered in the upper room

I guess it's useless to point out that Paul did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit by persecuting believers

maybe someone else will benefit though :cautious:
Peter was not preaching to any Gentiles on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the first Gentile he preach to was Cornelius after Stephen was stoned.

There is a difference between the dispensation of Grace, and the covenant of Grace, I have already explained this previously. The latter is for all, but the former is where Gentiles could now be saved, independent of what the Jews do.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Is it your assertion that things written to the Jews do not apply to you? Or vice-versa? You sound like a candidate for the MRV!
Every scripture is written FOR us, but not all scripture is written TO us or ABOUT us.
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
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Thank you for stating your view.

As I have stated in my previous post, I don't want to go beyond what is written. If Jesus said it then I would believe it.

God sees our heart. If you are a true believer and you have known from scripture or someone told you that blasphemy to the Holy Spirit is unforgivable then you would do your best to avoid this otherwise it will apply to you. If you have done it out of ignorance and later found out your mistake then as I said, God is loving, merciful and forgiving. I can't disregard His rightful judgment and go beyond what is written. I leave judgment to God.

NIV1984 Ezekiel 3:18-21
When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.”

NIV1984 Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

NIV1984 Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

NIV1984 2 Corinthians 7:10
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
The Jews said Amen to the curses in Deut 27, but I don't because Jesus fulfilled the Law on my behalf. If you don't like to rightly divide the word, that is a choice you make.

Ironically, when I was asking you to stand your stand towards this previously, you refused. Will you now be willing to state that Christians who commit this "sin" will never be forgiven, no matter what they do?
I have made my point and my stance. You have made yours too and now It's clear that you have an authority to go beyond what is written while I submit and humbly accept the word that is planted in me, which can SAVE me.

NIV1984 James 1:19-21
Listening and Doing My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

I pray for your enlightenment bro.

Thanks and God bless.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Peter was not preaching to any Gentiles on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the first Gentile he preach to was Cornelius after Stephen was stoned.

There is a difference between the dispensation of Grace, and the covenant of Grace, I have already explained this previously. The latter is for all, but the former is where Gentiles could now be saved, independent of what the Jews do.
Gentiles have always been included as born again creatures, Abram's (exalted father) His mother and father come from two different gentile foundations .The Hittites and the Amorites two enemies of the gospel . The new name given Abraham typfies our father in heaven as the father of a multitude of nations or denoimnations
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Thank you for stating your view.

As I have stated in my previous post, I don't want to go beyond what is written. If Jesus said it then I would believe it.

God sees our heart. If you are a true believer and you have known from scripture or someone told you that blasphemy to the Holy Spirit is unforgivable then you would do your best to avoid this otherwise it will apply to you. If you have done it out of ignorance and later found out your mistake then as I said, God is loving, merciful and forgiving. I can't disregard His rightful judgment and go beyond what is written. I leave judgment to God.

NIV1984 Ezekiel 3:18-21
When I say to a wicked man, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.”

NIV1984 Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

NIV1984 Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

NIV1984 2 Corinthians 7:10
Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

I have made my point and my stance. You have made yours too and now It's clear that you have an authority to go beyond what is written while I submit and humbly accept the word that is planted in me, which can SAVE me.

NIV1984 James 1:19-21
Listening and Doing My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

I pray for your enlightenment bro.

Thanks and God bless.
Thanks, I can see that either you don’t understand how the new covenant applies to Gentiles, or you would prefer to live your Christian life likes how the Jews lived under the Law. All the passages you used has one common theme, that is to be fearful of one sin or another

In my belief, We are not supposed to live our lives being conscious of sins. There is only one sin the Holy Spirit will convince the non believer of, that is the sin of rejecting Christ Jesus. Once you accept Jesus as your sin substitute, the only thing that the hs will convince us of, is to believe that we are the righteousness of God in Christ.

I can see that is why you were so unwilling to even state your stand with a resounding “Yes, Christians who commit that sin will NEVER be forgiven.” Okay we live our Christian lives differently and I respect your choice. Cheers
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Gentiles have always been included as born again creatures, Abram's (exalted father) His mother and father come from two different gentile foundations .The Hittites and the Amorites two enemies of the gospel . The new name given Abraham typfies our father in heaven as the father of a multitude of nations or denoimnations
Technically, Jews only existed as a race after Abraham. Issac is the very first Jew under the covenant of Abraham.

The distinction of Jews and gentiles did not exist before Abraham.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Thank you for stating your view.

I have made my point and my stance. You have made yours too and now It's clear that you have an authority to go beyond what is written while I submit and humbly accept the word that is planted in me, which can SAVE me.

Thanks and God bless.
In case you are unaware, your point and stance is far from clear, from people reading your words.

If you truly take the word as it is stated by Jesus, you will say that this sin is unforgivable, period.

And not "If you have done it out of ignorance and later found out your mistake then as I said, God is loving, merciful and forgiving"

The verse you quoted clearly stated

NIV1984 Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

There is no "ifs" or "buts" stated in that verse. Do you really think you are also not changing this verse, as you have accused me of doing? :)
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
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Just posted this in another thread and I would like to share it here too. Please bear with me.

Quoted:
I do believe that no deceiver would teach obedience to God. It is the work of the enemy to deceive people and lead them to disobey God.

Just one point I was pondering bro, isn't it that the WORD of TRUTH, the gospel of our salvation speaks about the life, death, burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ? If I take away one part of it, would it still be the WORD of TRUTH, the gospel of our SALVATION?

Obedience to God is a very essential part of the Gospel of our SALVATION and taking it away from the WORD of TRUTH, the Gospel of our SALVATION would make it a half TRUTH and an incomplete Gospel of our SALVATION.

Jesus said,

NIV1984 Revelation 3:1-3
...I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF MY GOD. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

JUST imagine a world without obedience to authorities would look like. Full of chaos, disorder and wickedness.

NOW imagine a gospel without the OBEDIENCE part...It's dead, no life and useless...Full of confusions.

Paul through faith and being led by the Spirit said,

NIV1984 Romans 15:18
I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

Have not much time now, still have to do a lot of work in the house now. If only I can just say I have FAITH and all these works are done in a snap. But i love my family and I am willing to do all this chores because of LOVE.

NIV1984 Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

God bless
 
Apr 15, 2017
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Blasphemy against the Spirit is attributing the work of God, which is good, to the work of the devil, or saying it is evil works.

It is attributing something evil to God when He is good.

Many people do this by saying God does not love me, He is punishing me, He does not care about people, He causes natural disasters, and wars.

Blasphemy is not rejecting Christ, for that is only a sin, and does not give them salvation, but they can still be saved.

For blasphemy is not going against the Son, the man Christ Jesus, and not accepting Him as Savior, for a person can go against the Son, the flesh, and be forgiven, but cannot go against the Spirit, and be forgiven.

Also many people believe in a God, and that He is good, and cares about people, but reject Christ, but they can still be saved, for they did not go against God.

Which is the case of Paul for he went against Christ, rejecting Him, and going against the Church, but he was still saved, because He did not go against God, he only went against the man Christ Jesus not believing He was of God, and is God, until Jesus got a hold of him then he straightway followed Jesus.

A person can blaspheme against the Son, the flesh, but not against the Spirit, so rejecting Jesus as Lord and Savior is not blasphemy against the Spirit, it only means they cannot have salvation, but they can still be forgiven and be saved.

If a person believes Jesus did evil works that would be blasphemy against the Spirit, whether they believe the works was of God, or not, for He was of God regardless of what they believe about Him, because the Bible says He did good works which cannot be denied, but they say otherwise rejecting truth presented to them that is obvious, but rejecting Him as Savior is not blasphemy, for they are going against the man Christ Jesus, but they would not have salvation.

The Bible said many believed on Jesus, but said nothing for fear of being put out of the synagogue, and Nicodemus said to Jesus, we know that you are a man of God, for no man can do these works unless God is with him, and they knew Jesus did good works, and was a good man, that could not be denied, which Jesus told them for what good work do you stone me for, and if Jesus did good works, and they knew it, then He would of had of been of God.

But they wanted to deny Jesus so much that ignored that, and said He cast out devils by Beelzebub, prince of the devils, for them going against Jesus blinded them to the obvious fact that He was good, and had to be of God.

But the truth is most people would not believe Jesus did evil works, but good works, even people that do not recognize Him as Savior, for many will say He was a good man but do not accept Him as Savior, and even the occult says Jesus is a good man, and more than that, an ascended master, and avatar, but not Lord and Savior.

People who would actually say Jesus was not a good man, whether they believe Him to have existed, or only a made up character, would have to be bitter, and hateful type of people, that like to slander, and do not face reality.

A good example is this, which I did not watch for Mr. Rogers when I was a child unless I was going through the channels, and say him, and maybe stayed for a minute before moving on, because he appeared too mellow for me, although I still considered him a good man, but now being an adult, he is great in his conduct and attitude, and talked to everyone the same way, and is probably one of the best examples of a Christian I have seen.

And usually documentaries about a person is done on television, and the person actually in the documentary, or a movie of someone else playing the person to show their life.

But you do not see a movie on the big screen, in theaters, of a documentary of a person that the person is actually in it, and footage about his actual life.

But they made one about Mr. Rogers, where it was footage about him, and his life, which is how much they admired him, and thought he was great.

But I mentioned Mr. Rogers to my friend, although he does not go to Church, and does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and he said, oh they say that Mr. Rogers is a pedophile, even though he was never accused, and even after his death was never accused, the same as some people say that Mr. Rogers was in the military as a sniper, and that is why he wore sweaters to cover up tattoos he had.

But like people will go against the man Christ Jesus, they will also go against someone like Mr. Rogers, who was actually on the level, and genuine, because they cannot stand that someone represents goodness so well for it makes them look bad because of their sinful lifestyle that they are ashamed of when they know, or hear of someone who represents goodness, although they keep enjoying the sins.

For some people are bitter, and hateful like that, for that is a shame to slander a person who does represent goodness, because they can't stand that someone behaves that good, and decent.

Of course some people will say things contrary to Mr. Roger's lifestyle, because it is shock value, as people say really, I don't believe it, for they think it is funny, but some are bitter, and hateful.

Why would anybody go against Jesus thinking He was not a good man, when the Bible testifies that He was a good man, whether He existed, or was a fictional character in a book.

But some like the Pharisees will ignore the obvious facts that Jesus did good, and was a good man, and say something negative about Him, and the world knows about Jesus, for it is in the Bible, and the only account we have of Him, so for them to go against the good nature of Jesus, when it is obvious that He was good, would be blasphemy against the Spirit.

It is the same as people that say hypocrites concerning Christianity, but if you actually represent goodness they would go against that too, for they are against it no matter how you act.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
Blasphemy against the Spirit is attributing the work of God, which is good, to the work of the devil, or saying it is evil works.

It is attributing something evil to God when He is good.

Many people do this by saying God does not love me, He is punishing me, He does not care about people, He causes natural disasters, and wars.

Blasphemy is not rejecting Christ, for that is only a sin, and does not give them salvation, but they can still be saved.

For blasphemy is not going against the Son, the man Christ Jesus, and not accepting Him as Savior, for a person can go against the Son, the flesh, and be forgiven, but cannot go against the Spirit, and be forgiven.

Also many people believe in a God, and that He is good, and cares about people, but reject Christ, but they can still be saved, for they did not go against God.

Which is the case of Paul for he went against Christ, rejecting Him, and going against the Church, but he was still saved, because He did not go against God, he only went against the man Christ Jesus not believing He was of God, and is God, until Jesus got a hold of him then he straightway followed Jesus.

A person can blaspheme against the Son, the flesh, but not against the Spirit, so rejecting Jesus as Lord and Savior is not blasphemy against the Spirit, it only means they cannot have salvation, but they can still be forgiven and be saved.

If a person believes Jesus did evil works that would be blasphemy against the Spirit, whether they believe the works was of God, or not, for He was of God regardless of what they believe about Him, because the Bible says He did good works which cannot be denied, but they say otherwise rejecting truth presented to them that is obvious, but rejecting Him as Savior is not blasphemy, for they are going against the man Christ Jesus, but they would not have salvation.

The Bible said many believed on Jesus, but said nothing for fear of being put out of the synagogue, and Nicodemus said to Jesus, we know that you are a man of God, for no man can do these works unless God is with him, and they knew Jesus did good works, and was a good man, that could not be denied, which Jesus told them for what good work do you stone me for, and if Jesus did good works, and they knew it, then He would of had of been of God.

But they wanted to deny Jesus so much that ignored that, and said He cast out devils by Beelzebub, prince of the devils, for them going against Jesus blinded them to the obvious fact that He was good, and had to be of God.

But the truth is most people would not believe Jesus did evil works, but good works, even people that do not recognize Him as Savior, for many will say He was a good man but do not accept Him as Savior, and even the occult says Jesus is a good man, and more than that, an ascended master, and avatar, but not Lord and Savior.

People who would actually say Jesus was not a good man, whether they believe Him to have existed, or only a made up character, would have to be bitter, and hateful type of people, that like to slander, and do not face reality.

A good example is this, which I did not watch for Mr. Rogers when I was a child unless I was going through the channels, and say him, and maybe stayed for a minute before moving on, because he appeared too mellow for me, although I still considered him a good man, but now being an adult, he is great in his conduct and attitude, and talked to everyone the same way, and is probably one of the best examples of a Christian I have seen.

And usually documentaries about a person is done on television, and the person actually in the documentary, or a movie of someone else playing the person to show their life.

But you do not see a movie on the big screen, in theaters, of a documentary of a person that the person is actually in it, and footage about his actual life.

But they made one about Mr. Rogers, where it was footage about him, and his life, which is how much they admired him, and thought he was great.

But I mentioned Mr. Rogers to my friend, although he does not go to Church, and does not accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and he said, oh they say that Mr. Rogers is a pedophile, even though he was never accused, and even after his death was never accused, the same as some people say that Mr. Rogers was in the military as a sniper, and that is why he wore sweaters to cover up tattoos he had.

But like people will go against the man Christ Jesus, they will also go against someone like Mr. Rogers, who was actually on the level, and genuine, because they cannot stand that someone represents goodness so well for it makes them look bad because of their sinful lifestyle that they are ashamed of when they know, or hear of someone who represents goodness, although they keep enjoying the sins.

For some people are bitter, and hateful like that, for that is a shame to slander a person who does represent goodness, because they can't stand that someone behaves that good, and decent.

Of course some people will say things contrary to Mr. Roger's lifestyle, because it is shock value, as people say really, I don't believe it, for they think it is funny, but some are bitter, and hateful.

Why would anybody go against Jesus thinking He was not a good man, when the Bible testifies that He was a good man, whether He existed, or was a fictional character in a book.

But some like the Pharisees will ignore the obvious facts that Jesus did good, and was a good man, and say something negative about Him, and the world knows about Jesus, for it is in the Bible, and the only account we have of Him, so for them to go against the good nature of Jesus, when it is obvious that He was good, would be blasphemy against the Spirit.

It is the same as people that say hypocrites concerning Christianity, but if you actually represent goodness they would go against that too, for they are against it no matter how you act.
For me, my view is more straightforward

The Jews rejected God the Father in the OT
The Jews rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels
The Jews rejected God the Spirit in Stephen by stoning him when he was "full of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 6:5)

The entire Trinity has been rejected by the Jews, including the HS which Jesus said was an unforgivable sin. God then put his plans for the Jews one side, and ushered in the dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles, as Paul explained in Romans 9-11.

Under this dispensation of Grace, there is no more unforgivable sin :). That sin has been committed by the Jews in the previous dispensation, which has now passed.
 

corazondeldei

Active member
Apr 17, 2019
151
33
28
56
For me, my view is more straightforward

The Jews rejected God the Father in the OT
The Jews rejected God the Son in the 4 Gospels
The Jews rejected God the Spirit in Stephen by stoning him when he was "full of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 6:5)

The entire Trinity has been rejected by the Jews, including the HS which Jesus said was an unforgivable sin. God then put his plans for the Jews one side, and ushered in the dispensation of Grace for the Gentiles, as Paul explained in Romans 9-11.

Under this dispensation of Grace, there is no more unforgivable sin :). That sin has been committed by the Jews in the previous dispensation, which has now passed.