The Bible, the Promised Land, and the Quran

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Mar 28, 2016
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#21
That's allegorizing if I ever have seen it. Do you have any Scriptural basis for those statements?
Do you believe Jesus rose physically from the dead and that His return will be physical and He will set up a physical Kingdom on this physical earth, or it's just 'nothing more than a correct heart'...'the heart that God occupies'?
God is not a man as us. He is not created in the likes of man as a god. he remains without mother and father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof, our eternal High priest without beginning or end.

I beleive the body of Jesus did not see corruption for three days and nights. Its almost as if time stood still, The father kept it in the refrig to preserve it. There are reason as to why but all had to do with attributing any work to the corrupted work of the flesh and it could of been kept from decay to prevent the show the work of dying and it is why it saw no corruption.. ?

2 Corinthains 5:16 informs us that the outward flesh that was used to represent the unseen work of the promise of Joel that Christ would come and pour out His unseen spirit on corrupted flesh to demonstrate that which the letter of the law could not do. The Spirit of the law of truth did finish that work. The time of promised demonstration is over. If he would cloth Himself with the temporal flesh and we would crucify him over and over. the world would wonder why one demonstration was not enough?

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth" know we him no more.

Christ is in us.... not of us. He is here reigning with saints.

Would him putting on temporal flesh make him more believable? The spirit of lies putting on the flesh of the serpent seemed to make him more believable. Problem is Christ wanted mankind to believe Him not seen and not learn by exerence.as if experience was the validator of the unseen spiritual things of God . Faith departed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

Job in chapter 9 confirms God is not known by natural man born with no faith be which he could know and understand. as in the heart is desperately wicked and beyond control as in who could know it? One day it condemns the next minute it excuses as a figment of our imagination the human heart, seat of all understanding, save that of God . .

If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.Job9:20

Again as to the unfamiliar but not hopeless bond between God and man. Job declares.

If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean; Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me..Job 9:30-31

The he gives the answer as to why.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon "us both"..Job9:32-33

"Us both" God not seen and man seen.

A daysman is a word the deccribes a flesly mediator that stands between God not seen and man seen as a infallible umpire calling the shots. But even the Son of man Jesus who confirmed His flesh profits for nothing as a demonstration of the unseen spiritual as that which does quicken our souls. And when called good Master as a infallible interpreter he gave glory to the unseen father and declared; only God unseen in His unseen hiding place is good. The word "good" describes our unseen Faithful Creator .
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
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#22
To help us out, do you have any Scriptures that explicitly say the Church will inherit the land promised to Israel?
The Scriptures by construct say that Christians are Abraham's offspring and as such are "heirs according to [the] promise" God made to Abraham.

Genesis 17:5-8 God says, “No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, I will be their God.”

Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#23
God is not a man as us. He is not created in the likes of man as a god. he remains without mother and father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof, our eternal High priest without beginning or end.

I beleive the body of Jesus did not see corruption for three days and nights. Its almost as if time stood still, The father kept it in the refrig to preserve it. There are reason as to why but all had to do with attributing any work to the corrupted work of the flesh and it could of been kept from decay to prevent the show the work of dying and it is why it saw no corruption.. ?

2 Corinthains 5:16 informs us that the outward flesh that was used to represent the unseen work of the promise of Joel that Christ would come and pour out His unseen spirit on corrupted flesh to demonstrate that which the letter of the law could not do. The Spirit of the law of truth did finish that work. The time of promised demonstration is over. If he would cloth Himself with the temporal flesh and we would crucify him over and over. the world would wonder why one demonstration was not enough?

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, "yet now henceforth" know we him no more.

Christ is in us.... not of us. He is here reigning with saints.

Would him putting on temporal flesh make him more believable? The spirit of lies putting on the flesh of the serpent seemed to make him more believable. Problem is Christ wanted mankind to believe Him not seen and not learn by exerence.as if experience was the validator of the unseen spiritual things of God . Faith departed.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified

Job in chapter 9 confirms God is not known by natural man born with no faith be which he could know and understand. as in the heart is desperately wicked and beyond control as in who could know it? One day it condemns the next minute it excuses as a figment of our imagination the human heart, seat of all understanding, save that of God . .

If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.Job9:20

Again as to the unfamiliar but not hopeless bond between God and man. Job declares.

If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean; Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me..Job 9:30-31

The he gives the answer as to why.

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon "us both"..Job9:32-33

"Us both" God not seen and man seen.

A daysman is a word the deccribes a flesly mediator that stands between God not seen and man seen as a infallible umpire calling the shots. But even the Son of man Jesus who confirmed His flesh profits for nothing as a demonstration of the unseen spiritual as that which does quicken our souls. And when called good Master as a infallible interpreter he gave glory to the unseen father and declared; only God unseen in His unseen hiding place is good. The word "good" describes our unseen Faithful Creator .
I'm sorry. I don't understand why you quoted me to say all this. Is there a connection?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#24
The Scriptures by construct say that Christians are Abraham's offspring and as such are "heirs according to [the] promise" God made to Abraham.

Genesis 17:5-8 God says, “No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings shall come from you. And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you and to your offspring after you the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, I will be their God.”

Galatians 3:29 says “And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.”
Thanks but no explicit promise of the Land that God kept repeating to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their descendants but not to the Church...just 'logical' inferences.
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
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#25
Thanks but no explicit promise of the Land that God kept repeating to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their descendants but not to the Church...just 'logical' inferences.
Then have faith, my brother.

The Bible has lots of inferences. And John in his closing of his gospel said that not everything Jesus said is written in the Bible...It would take the whole world to hold all the things he said that weren't written in the Bible. So even John infers that we include inferences in reading the Bible.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#26
Then have faith, my brother.

The Bible has lots of inferences. And John in his closing of his gospel said that not everything Jesus said is written in the Bible...It would take the whole world to hold all the things he said that weren't written in the Bible. So even John infers that we include inferences in reading the Bible.
John did not infer anything about the Church having the Land, only you did. It's poor hermeneutics to build doctrine on inferences rather than explicits in Scripture.
Faith comes from hearing and hearing, from the Word...not inferences.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
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#27
The Koran has a different Jesus, period. To them God does not have a Son, to us Jesus is the only begotten Son of the Father.
Honest, the Koran really says that "Allah" regards the Son of Man as his son.I remember, I saw in the Koran that Allah had a son.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#28
i know the koran, 004:171 says Jesus only is a word from spirit of allha, and allha has no son. I think the Koran is somewhat inconsistent.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#29
Honest, the Koran really says that "Allah" regards the Son of Man as his son.I remember, I saw in the Koran that Allah had a son.
Either the Koran has a contradiction (no surprise there) or you need to go back and check your source...


Chapter (17) sūrat l-isrā (The Night Journey)

Sahih International: And say, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification."
Pickthall: And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.
Yusuf Ali: Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"
Shakir: And say: (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him).
Muhammad Sarwar: Say, "It is only God who deserves all praise. He has not begotten a son and has no partner in His Kingdom. He does not need any guardian to help Him in His need. Proclaim His greatness.
Mohsin Khan: And say: "All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has not begotten a son (nor an offspring), and Who has no partner in (His) Dominion, nor He is low to have a Wali (helper, protector or supporter). And magnify Him with all the magnificence, [Allahu-Akbar (Allah is the Most Great)]."
Arberry: And say: 'Praise belongs to God, who has not taken to Him a son, and who has not any associate in the Kingdom, nor any protector out of humbleness.' And magnify Him with repeated magnificats.
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=17&verse=111
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#31
That's allegorizing if I ever have seen it. Do you have any Scriptural basis for those statements?
Do you believe Jesus rose physically from the dead and that His return will be physical and He will set up a physical Kingdom on this physical earth, or it's just 'nothing more than a correct heart'...'the heart that God occupies'?
You mean the land that flows with milk and honey?! i reckon it's the heart that flows with goodness.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
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#32
You mean the land that flows with milk and honey?! i reckon it's the heart that flows with goodness.
Could you please explain these boundaries 'of your heart?...

Genesis 15:18 KJV
[18] In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Exodus 23:31a KJV
[31] And I will set thy bounds from the Red sea even unto the sea of the Philistines, and from the desert unto the river: