Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

[kaylagrl]

Got ya.

The OP is taking the verse out of context. No one but God can forgive sin. Jesus said if you accept Him you will be saved, if you reject Him you are lost. The disciples could therefore say one is lost or saved based on CHRIST'S death and forgiveness of sin. They themselves could not forgive sin, they themselves were not sinless.

 

[kaylagrl]

But you cannot deny that Jesus gave that set of instructions to his original 11 apostles. So it must have been valid for them during the early Acts period when they were fulfilling the GC. But now, we don't follow those instructions, even though it was part of the GC found in the book of John.

So do you now agree that not all of the instructions in the GC is valid for the church today?

You're making the verse say something it didn't. As I said above, based on acceptance of Christ's forgiveness for ones sins one is either saved or lost. A person who is not sinless themselves cannot forgive another's sins. Even Jesus' own mother needed a Savior. They were never able to forgive sin, so you're not making any point here. Nothing to agree on.

To your second point, as long as people are still lost in sin, and they are, we have an obligation to tell them the Good News. How else will they know unless someone tells them? And why would you not want to share Christ with others?! You have the answer, someone shared it with you. Why would you not do the same?

 

[JosephsDreams]

The OP is taking the verse out of context. No one but God can forgive sin. Jesus said if you accept Him you will be saved, if you reject Him you are lost. The disciples could therefore say one is lost or saved based on CHRIST'S death and forgiveness of sin. They themselves could not forgive sin, they themselves were not sinless.

I agree. I think that is what he was saying...unless I am misinterpreting his remarks.

 

[JosephsDreams]

God will hold us accountable for not sharing the good news when he has given some of us an umption to. Some of us evangelized by lifestyle, some by preaching, some by the written word, some by miracles.

 

[JosephsDreams]

The Jews are not an evangelistic people. I could never understand that. Well, actually I could, but only to a point.
How Christians do not want to share the wonders that Jesus has done for them is beyond me. The way I see it, it's kinda like when you are in love, and want to tell the world about that person. I have found (I am making a generalization, there re genuinely shy and quiet and insecure people who just have a hard time speaking up, whatever the subject), but I have come to the conclusion, generally speaking, that if one is consistently not talking about Jesus, to someone, anyone, it doesn't have to be out in public to strangers, then I question the depth of their relationship with Him.

 

[kaylagrl]

The Jews are not an evangelistic people. I could never understand that. Well, actually I could, but only to a point.
How Christians do not want to share the wonders that Jesus has done for them is beyond me. The way I see it, it's kinda like when you are in love, and want to tell the world about that person. I have found (I am making a generalization, there re genuinely shy and quiet and insecure people who just have a hard time speaking up, whatever the subject), but I have come to the conclusion, generally speaking, that if one is consistently not talking about Jesus, to someone, anyone, it doesn't have to be out in public to strangers, then I question the depth of their relationship with Him.

Exactly!!

Romans 10

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

 

[kaylagrl]

W

Exactly!!

Romans 10

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

Went into edit mode too soon. Continuing...

1 Peter 3

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

John 4

Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, then comes the harvest’? Look, I tell you, lift up your eyes, and see that the fields are white for harvest. Already the one who reaps is receiving wages and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that sower and reaper may rejoice together.

 

[Guojing]

I agree. I think that is what he was saying...unless I am misinterpreting his remarks.

That is what the verse is saying, I am merely quoting it.

Of course, the easiest way for most Christians is to simply ignore the verse and pretend it never existed. I have never heard any church pastor ever preaching those last few verses of John, now I understand why.

Fortunately if you have a dispensational view of the Bible, that verse is easily resolved.

 

[Guojing]

You're making the verse say something it didn't. As I said above, based on acceptance of Christ's forgiveness for ones sins one is either saved or lost. A person who is not sinless themselves cannot forgive another's sins. Even Jesus' own mother needed a Savior. They were never able to forgive sin, so you're not making any point here. Nothing to agree on.

So what do you think that verse is actually saying, care to share how you would interpret that verse?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Jews are not an evangelistic people. I could never understand that.

Well according to Christ they traveled over land and sea to make one convert to Judaism. So you are mistaken.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mt 23:15)

 

[JosephsDreams]

Well according to Christ they traveled over land and sea to make one convert to Judaism. So you are mistaken.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Mt 23:15)

Jesus was referring to the scribes and Patisseries looking for "worthy" prospects, and mostly Jews in other areas of the world at that, to train then in their way; twice the sons of hell they are.

This is what is called not only taking a verse out of context, but also completely misunderstanding it.

Honestly, no disrespect, but you really belie that the Jews are evangelizing people?

And please don't reply telling me about the apostles, who were messianic Jews at that. I am talking about the vast majority of non messianic Jews here, not a tiny percentage.

 

[Absolutely]

As stated many times here, there are people who rightly divide the word according to different dispensations.

You are of course free to reject that method of understanding the Bible.

I would like to know the paranoia in what you perceive as Jesus outdated words to us ...HIS DISCIPLES

 

[kaylagrl]

So what do you think that verse is actually saying, care to share how you would interpret that verse?

Already said what it was saying. Only Christ can forgive sin. Period.

 

[oldethennew]

the scribes and Pharisees indeed did evangelize to their' beliefs, which was totally un-profitable -
but the majority of 'practicing Jews' welcome people to convert to Judaism -
but, there are so many 'false-evangelists' is Christianity today, that they 'far surpass'
the scribes and Pharisees in converting children to hell - as Christ calls them,
MATT.23:15.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you compass sea and land to make one proselyte,
and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

as it is written,
'Many shall come in My Name saying, I Am Christ' = (Jesus is Lord), and shall deceive many.'

 

[Nehemiah6]

Honestly, no disrespect, but you really belie that the Jews are evangelizing people?

The Messianic Jews (Hebrew Christians) are evangelizing their own people, and that's the only thing that counts.

And that verse was definitely not taken out of context. According to their lights the scribes and Pharisees in the days of Christ were "proselytizing" (which is equivalent to Christian evangelism), but as Christ said, totally worthless. So if one is mistaken, one should admit it without further discussion.

 

[corazondeldei]

NIV1984 1 Corinthians 14:36-40
Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored. Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Are we supposed to ignore God's commands according to Paul? TO invalidate God's word is the same as nullifying it.

NIV1984 Mark 7:6-13
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT”

So better to test the spirits whether they are from God, for many FALSE prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[JosephsDreams]

The Messianic Jews (Hebrew Christians) are evangelizing their own people, and that's the only thing that counts.

And that verse was definitely not taken out of context. According to their lights the scribes and Pharisees in the days of Christ were "proselytizing" (which is equivalent to Christian evangelism), but as Christ said, totally worthless. So if one is mistaken, one should admit it without further discussion.

I dont agree with you. Let's leave it that.

 

[JosephsDreams]

The Jews will heartedly and lovingly welcome converts. They just dont (generally) seek them out. They never did, never will. Messianic Jews are a whole 'nother species when it comes their spiritual lives and understanding if the NT, so why bother even comparing them when it comes to evangelizing?
When one compares them they are comparing the unsaved to the saved.
I'm sure most of the peopke here realize how big the gap is and what that implies. Emphasis on most.

 

[corazondeldei]

Some arguments why

1. The term "Great Commission" was never in the Bible, and Bible translators only added that in the heading.
2. Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
3. John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
4. Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
5. Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

What do the rest of you think?

In my opinion, there is a big difference between those who speaks with human wisdom and Christians whose wisdom is from God (spiritual).

Noah built a physical arc to save eight souls and everything in it but Jesus built a spiritual arc to save a multitude.

Are we to build an arc today as it was commanded to Noah in the past? If we belong to the body of Christ then we are His fellow workers in building that spiritual arch.

Just a matter of physical(worldly) against spiritual wisdom.

NIV1984 James 3:13-18
Two Kinds of Wisdom Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.

Have you considered the body of Christ as the new creation IN CHRIST in starting this thread?

NIV1984 Ephesians 2:11-22
One in Christ Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Can we forgive sins? Yes we were told to forgive those who sinned against us because the Spirit working in us leads us to forgive sins as He is a forgiving God.

 

[corazondeldei]

In my opinion, there is a big difference between those who speaks with human wisdom and Christians whose wisdom is from God (spiritual).

Noah built a physical arc to save eight souls and everything in it but Jesus built a spiritual arc to save a multitude.

Are we to build an arc today as it was commanded to Noah in the past? If we belong to the body of Christ then we are His fellow workers in building that spiritual arch.

Just a matter of physical(worldly) against spiritual wisdom.

NIV1984 James 3:13-18
Two Kinds of Wisdom Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.

Have you considered the body of Christ as the new creation IN CHRIST in starting this thread?

NIV1984 Ephesians 2:11-22
One in Christ Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Can we forgive sins? Yes we were told to forgive those who sinned against us because the Spirit working in us leads us to forgive sins as He is a forgiving God.

It's an ark not an arc or arch. Sorry for the wrong spelling.

God bless.