Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[Wansvic]

I didn't read yours and Waggles post all the way because I'm not a cessationist either and this thread was whipping along at light speed yesterday

but I would disagree that water baptism is in addition to or part of salvation

first of all, it does not actually wash away sins...internal prob

second, only the blood of Christ, as we know, is acceptable to God to cleanse us from sin and we are being cleansed from sin by His blood as He is the final High Priest and our High Priest

I have been water baptized...13 or 14 I believe...and I believe we should be water baptized in obedience to the words of Christ

I don't have time right now to specifically look up the scripture you posted (attached) but later on today I will try to address this in more detail and prob add some scripture myself

I do agree water baptism should be followed, but not as do it or you are not saved...just want to be clear there

thanks

I do think that people object to the concept that plain old water could cleanses one's sins. I would too.

I believe the thing people misunderstand is that God created John the Baptist to announce the coming messiah and to introduce the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin and therein lies the significance of water baptism. Scripture tells us that by the Pharisees refusing it they were in fact rejecting the counsel of God:

"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."i
I do, however, believe it is part of the spiritual birth process.

It may sound foolish to some that they need to immerse in a body of water to receive something from God. But we know that whatever God commands in His Word is commanded for a reason.

 

[SpoonJuly]

hey spoon...see the little smiley above?

click on that and an entire array of smiles pops up, all of which are allowable to be used at your discretion. that should tell you that we are not always about serious and so polite you don't sound 'real' take me for example, I use those and will add memes or gifs and just add some humor or my way of expressing how silly I think something is. they can also be an ice breaker...or sarcastic

now if you hover your mouse over each smiley above you will note it tells you what they mean

smh and or lol are not abusive or rude or anything along those lines

now telling people they are stupid etc is another story

here's a cute little meme (google images with search) I might put under something that made no sense...I like using memes

hope that helps

Thanks, I already understood about the smiles.
I will also say I have a pretty skin having dealt with the public for 50 years and am not easly offended.
I do not see rudeness as others do that is why I keep asking what is acceptable ant what is not.
Seems it sometimes depends on who is speaking and who they are speaking to, but That may also be wrong.
Confusing----

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do think that people object to the concept that plain old water could cleanses one's sins. I would too.

I believe the thing people misunderstand is that God created John the Baptist to announce the coming messiah and to introduce the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin and therein lies the significance of water baptism. Scripture tells us that by the Pharisees refusing it they were in fact rejecting the counsel of God:

"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."i
I do, however, believe it is part of the spiritual birth process.

It may sound foolish to some that they need to immerse in a body of water to receive something from God. But we know that whatever God commands in His Word is commanded for a reason.

Lol

It is the blood of christ that washes sins my friend, Your pastor has no power to take you to the death of christ, or sprinkle you with Christs blood.

Once again, Your trying to replace the work of God with the work of man. Now this I would be seriously worried about.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thanks, I already understood about the smiles.
I will also say I have a pretty skin having dealt with the public for 50 years and am not easly offended.
I do not see rudeness as others do that is why I keep asking what is acceptable ant what is not.
Seems it sometimes depends on who is speaking and who they are speaking to, but That may also be wrong.
Confusing----

who is speaking and who they speak to can definitely be a part of it

jump in and try a few things

no worries if you pinch a toe. they'll let you know (rhymes...didn't mean to)

 

[garee]

sigh

lol is laugh out loud
smh is shaking my head

EG, I read your post over again explaining what PennEd was meaning after becoming a bit calmer than I was than I left yesterday. If this is so, then I misunderstood what he was saying.

But, my response was pointed at his interjecting videos of the same type of thing.

Whether that clears up any dispute between PE and I, will remain to be seen because I suspect this goes beyond this current one, and is actually based on a former problem.

I can't do anything more than regret some of my postings publicly. They are all true testimonies.

Carry on soldiers! lol a normal laugh.

I have no problem believing the testimonies are true as personal experiences. I believe Jesus in Mathew 4 experienced what some today call out of the body or near death experience which is simply lying demons bringing into the fleshly mind of men lying signs as wonders and is used like as if there were sign gifts to confirm something . But Jesus knew there was only one of source of faith by which a person can believe God...……. as it is written, again and again ... three times, struck him out for a season. Jesus rather than believe his weakened fleshly mind gave glory to the unseen Father. As our example He would have no part in worshipping fallen angel as spirits of lies.. We walk by faith ,the unseen.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,Colosssian2:18

 

[Wansvic]

These passage tell us how people were saved, And what made them sons of God

Look, no water baptism involved.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Prov 25:2

The first scripture does not say as many as received him became the sons of God.
It says as many as received Him to them gave He power to become (future tense) sons of God.
John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

One must receive the Holy Ghost to be led by Him.
Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Prov 25:2

The first scripture does not say as many as received him became the sons of God.
It says as many as received Him to them gave He power to become (future tense) sons of God.
John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

One must receive the Holy Ghost to be led by Him.
Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

It still does not mention baptism

Also. Your a little skewed their in your reasoning

But as many as have recieved him (he spoke of those who had already recieved him,) he gave them (those who had received him) the right, or the power. To become sons of God (at this time in Johns context, they were already sons of God. It was a completed action.)

He spoke of all believers up to that time. Not of people who will in the future be saved. So you were off in sequence or time and space.
Your not a child of God until you receive the spirit. Eph 1: 13 and 14 said this occures the moment you receive him in faith.

Again, No water baptism required.

 

[Wansvic]

Peter said to do all three things. He did not give a specific sequence.

He told us to do many things, are all of them required for salvation?

No. Upon believing that Jesus was the messiah who had been crucified the people asked Peter what they must do.
Peter's answer was they were to do three things; repent, be water baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. He went on to say SAVE yourselves from this perverse generation. (Acts 2:36-40)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter said to do all three things. He did not give a specific sequence.
No. Upon believing that Jesus was the messiah who had been crucified the people asked Peter what they must do.
Peter's answer was they were to do three things; repent, be water baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. He went on to say SAVE yourselves from this perverse generation. (Acts 2:36-40)

No he did not

Again, the greek does not support your cause man.

And I am done, You want to think you can be washed by man, and reject the washing of God. Good luck to you.

Me, I will rely on the work of God. And not the work of man. You want to belittle or mock me because I trust God feel free.. No sweat off my back.

 

[SpoonJuly]

Peter said to do all three things. He did not give a specific sequence.
No. Upon believing that Jesus was the messiah who had been crucified the people asked Peter what they must do.
Peter's answer was they were to do three things; repent, be water baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. He went on to say SAVE yourselves from this perverse generation. (Acts 2:36-40)

Can one receive the gift of the Holy Ghost before salvation?
If baptism is necessary for salvation, than Cornelius and his house received the Holy Ghost before salvation because they had not yet been baptized.

 

[Wansvic]

Lol

It is the blood of christ that washes sins my friend, Your pastor has no power to take you to the death of christ, or sprinkle you with Christs blood.

Once again, Your trying to replace the work of God with the work of man. Now this I would be seriously worried about.

The Word speaks of being buried with him in baptism.
Rom 6:4-5
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Col 2:12-14
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[Wansvic]

No he did not

Again, the greek does not support your cause man.

And I am done, You want to think you can be washed by man, and reject the washing of God. Good luck to you.

Me, I will rely on the work of God. And not the work of man. You want to belittle or mock me because I trust God feel free.. No sweat off my back.

You are entitled to what you see, as am I.
Have a great day!

 

[Wansvic]

It still does not mention baptism

Also. Your a little skewed their in your reasoning

But as many as have recieved him (he spoke of those who had already recieved him,) he gave them (those who had received him) the right, or the power. To become sons of God (at this time in Johns context, they were already sons of God. It was a completed action.)

He spoke of all believers up to that time. Not of people who will in the future be saved. So you were off in sequence or time and space.
Your not a child of God until you receive the spirit. Eph 1: 13 and 14 said this occures the moment you receive him in faith.

Again, No water baptism required.

I have received the Holy Ghost.
No disrespect meant when I say that you are not seeing what I am seeing, it is just a fact.
Hope you have a great day!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can we get back on topic now. And stop with these false gospels?

 

[Wansvic]

Can one receive the gift of the Holy Ghost before salvation?
If baptism is necessary for salvation, than Cornelius and his house received the Holy Ghost before salvation because they had not yet been baptized.

Beings Peter commanded that three things must be done I believe all are necessary for salvation. If this were not so than surely Peter would not have added anything other than the need to believe in Jesus' sacrificial work as the Messiah.

We know that the exact sequence is not required because the record shows some got water baptized first, and vice versa. One can assume there is a reason the experience differed because God does nothing haphazardly; everything He does has a purpose.

God already knew Cornelius would be obedient to His command to be water baptized, maybe that is a key.

 

[notuptome]

Beings Peter commanded that three things must be done I believe all are necessary for salvation. If this were not so than surely Peter would not have added anything other than the need to believe in Jesus' sacrificial work as the Messiah.

We know that the exact sequence is not required because the record shows some got water baptized first, and vice versa. One can assume there is a reason the experience differed because God does nothing haphazardly; everything He does has a purpose.

God already knew Cornelius would be obedient to His command to be water baptized, maybe that is a key.

So Peter has more authority than Jesus?

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

Beings Peter commanded that three things must be done I believe all are necessary for salvation. If this were not so than surely Peter would not have added anything other than the need to believe in Jesus' sacrificial work as the Messiah.

We know that the exact sequence is not required because the record shows some got water baptized first, and vice versa. One can assume there is a reason the experience differed because God does nothing haphazardly; everything He does has a purpose.

God already knew Cornelius would be obedient to His command to be water baptized, maybe that is a key.

Some?! what about the disciples themselves? were they baptized before they got the Holy spirit or did they get the Holy spirit before they were baptized?

 

[Wansvic]

So Peter has more authority than Jesus?

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God's Word never contradicts itself. Action accompanies belief. And I am not talking about OT laws. I am referring to NT instructions:
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:18-19

Jesus words clearly depict belief requires action:
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Wansvic]

Some?! what about the disciples themselves? were they baptized before they got the Holy spirit or did they get the Holy spirit before they were baptized?

There is no record of disciples other than Paul being water baptized (Acts 22) However, that does not negate the fact that there are at least 4 witnesses of its necessity. According to 2 Corinthians 13:1 every concept is established at the mouth of 2-3 witnesses.

Also, John chapters 3 and 4 record Jesus attending water baptisms. If water baptism was not required why didn't He dispute their actions. he did not.

 

[garee]

I do think that people object to the concept that plain old water could cleanses one's sins. I would too.

I believe the thing people misunderstand is that God created John the Baptist to announce the coming messiah and to introduce the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin and therein lies the significance of water baptism. Scripture tells us that by the Pharisees refusing it they were in fact rejecting the counsel of God:

"But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."i
I do, however, believe it is part of the spiritual birth process.

It may sound foolish to some that they need to immerse in a body of water to receive something from God. But we know that whatever God commands in His Word is commanded for a reason.

There is no outward baptism as that seen for the remission of sin as a sign gift. The baptism spoken of in John 3:25 is one of personal desire when a new member of the priesthood of believers the royal Priesthood. .No longer after a the tribe of Levi, the reformation has come..