Twinkling of an eye

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
TheDivineWatermark said:
EDIT: ran out of time to edit my last sentence... Part A of verse 3 is speaking of the IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING verse (grammatically), whereas "the departure FIRST" speaks of the noun-event back in verse 1.

What happens is that ppl, in reading v.3, reach WAY BACK OVER AND PAST v.2 to grab verse 1 and apply THAT to the phrase "that day shall not be present," when it is referring to "the Day of the Lord [TIME PERIOD]" which will not be present until ONE THING *FIRST* (NOW the noun-event from v.1, HERE)
Click to expand...

Paul uses a Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians......

We beseech you brethern in view of the BODY PRESENCE of CHRIST, THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM <----that THE day of CHRIST is at HAND........

THAT DAY shall NOT COME until

a. APOHYSTAMIE
b. MAN of SIN being revealed as god....
 
dcontroversal said:
It is also interesting to note that when the 7th begins to sound TIME shall be no more......apply that the the above three
Click to expand...

--at the time of the 7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe/1st Vial], there are still 6 more Vials (which take some time, when you read what all they describe)

--at Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5, this is PARALLEL with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which two "punish" words are SEPARATED [time-wise] by a very specific TIME PERIOD (which Amill-teachings do not account for)
 
dcontroversal said:
Paul uses a Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians......

We beseech you brethern in view of the BODY PRESENCE of CHRIST, THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM <----that THE day of CHRIST is at HAND........

THAT DAY shall NOT COME until

a. APOHYSTAMIE
b. MAN of SIN being revealed as god....
Click to expand...

Verse 1 is speaking WHOLLY AND ONLY of ONE THING (ONE EVENT on ONE particular day/point in time), I agree with that part of your post (if that was among the points you were making, and I think it is :) )
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
--at the time of the 7th Trumpet [/3rd Woe/1st Vial], there are still 6 more Vials (which take some time, when you read what all they describe)

--at Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5, this is PARALLEL with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] which two "punish" words are SEPARATED [time-wise] by a very specific TIME PERIOD (which Amill-teachings do not account for)
Click to expand...

TIME NO MORE meaning that time has run out, the gig is up......obviously time marches on

a. For the kingdoms of the world the gig is UP...JESUS has taken the reigns
b. For the saved time is up we are given our eternal bodies not bound anymore by time
c. For the lost and the beast time is UP...judgment and wrath

When the Devil is cast out and down he knows he has but a little time LEFT......
 
dcontroversal said:
Paul uses a Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians......

We beseech you brethern in view of the BODY PRESENCE of CHRIST, THAT IS TO SAY our gathering together unto HIM <----that THE day of CHRIST is at HAND........

THAT DAY shall NOT COME until

a. APOHYSTAMIE
b. MAN of SIN being revealed as god....
Click to expand...

It does not say that it is the day, when he is revealed . It will come as a thief in the night. .he has been reveled in 1 John 2 and as the warning

The day of the lord is the last day on this present earth. Six times in John God uses the phrase last day to represent the work of the quickening of the eye. Both the believers receive their new incorruptible bodies and the execution of the corrupted creation will go up in smoke of the lake of fire the second death .

The spirit of the antichrist would have mankind to believe he is not revealed. Its easier for him to hide that way.
 
dcontroversal said:
When the Devil is cast out and down he knows he has but a little time LEFT......
Click to expand...

Well, I agree with that! (not sure we see exactly eye-to-eye as to its meaning, but) I see that as referring to the 1260 days remaining (until His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly MK, promised to Israel, aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," and which, DURING those trib years, the "guests [plural]" will have: "having been INVITED" [Rev19:9, DISTINCT from Rev19:7] and "INVITED" BY "Israel" [the believing/faithful remnant of Israel (having come to faith WITHIN the trib, AFTER our Departure/Rapture), aka "the WISE" [Dan12:1-4; etc other refs in the gospels, like Matt24:14(26:13) and others parallel to the Olivet Discourse...])
 
^ EDIT to add… [Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48, for example... "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal (the "wise" in v.42); He will be "RETURN[-ing]" as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, at this point in the chronology]
 
garee said:
It does not say that it is the day, when he is revealed . It will come as a thief in the night. .he has been reveled in 1 John 2 and as the warning

The day of the lord is the last day on this present earth. Six times in John God uses the phrase last day to represent the work of the quickening of the eye. Both the believers receive their new incorruptible bodies and the execution of the corrupted creation will go up in smoke of the lake of fire the second death .

The spirit of the antichrist would have mankind to believe he is not revealed. Its easier for him to hide that way.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH dude...I suggest you study the word translated coming............then get back to me....
 
1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] BEHOLD, I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

scripture says that the “rapture” occurs as the LAST TRUMPET is blown.

MATTHEW 24 [29]IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with A GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET, and THEY SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here we find a trumpet being blown after the tribulation period. You cannot have the LAST TRUMPET being blown before the tribulation or at mid tribulation if a trumpet is being blown AFTER the tribulation. Yes, the trumpet blown in Matt.24 is the last trumpet of 1Cor.15. In Matt.24 You find the LAST TRUMPET being blown and the gathering of Gods people {in the twinkling of an eye}

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel.[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

The GREAT trumpet {also found in Matt.24} shall be blown. His people gathered. Its off to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. Not headin for heaven as the Rapturist claim. My next question is how can the Rapturist claim the Last Trumpet be the Last Trumpet if theres trumpets blown AFTER that trumpet blows
 
Deade said:
I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet. Heb. 12 is just a reference to Mount Zion which is new Jerusalem, yet future. Heb. 11:40: "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." New Jerusalem is being prepared and is coming to earth with the "many mansions" that the father is preparing.

Nobody is going to heaven. Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. At least until the 1000 years are over. But even then New Jerusalem will be here.

Heaven (the Kingdom of) is coming to earth. Rev. 5:10: "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

From this, we can deduce nobody is in heaven and nobody is going there. :cool:
Click to expand...

I agree with you and the scriptures
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldethennew and Deade
Rev. 20:4-6 tells us who will be in the first resurrection. If one is to escape the second death they must be in the first resurrection. It is obvious that the first resurrection comes after the tribulation because those saints killed during the tribulation are in the first resurrection.
1 Cor. 15:51-52 tells us that all will not sleep but all will be changed. This will happen instantly at the last trump.

If it were not foolish, it would be hilarious how many deny that all means all, first means first, and last means last.
The most hilarious is the poster that has on many occasions stated that Rev. 4:1 "is a prophetic allusion to when the church is gathered".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deade
I'll come back later to post something about the "TRUMPET(s)" issue (perhaps tomorrow even).


But for now couple of things to note about 1 Corinthians 15:23,

which says, "[re: resurrection] but each [G1538 - Hekastos - 'each (of more than two)'] IN HIS OWN ORDER" :

--the underlined words would be superfluous, if there remained only one; and...

---the "G1538 - Hekastos" word means "each (of more than two)"... "each (individual) unit viewed distinctly, i.e. as opposed to "severally" (as a group)" [<---source: these quoted from Bible Hub; bold mine]...


... So John 5:29's "the resurrection OF LIFE" (being distinct from "the resurrection of damnation") has more than one-point-in-time of application:

--firstfruit Christ in 32ad (1 Corinthians 15:23a)

--and the "many" that arose also at that time in 32ad (Matthew 27:51-53),

--"the Church which is His body [the 'ONE BODY']"'s 'dead IN Christ' at the time of our Rapture (1 Thess 4:15-17; 1Cor15:51-54 where the words "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" speaks SOLELY of "the Church which is His body" [indicated by the word "THIS" and in the context of the phrase "Behold, I shew you a mystery"]; Martha and all OT saints WELL-KNEW of "resurrection," John 11:24, Job 19:25-27, Daniel 12:13--it was no mystery to them, and was not exactly what Paul was tasked with disclosing here),

--the two witnesses at the 6th Trumpet time-slot (the 7th Trumpet/3rd Woe and 7 Vials are yet to follow this),

--the martyred/beheaded trib saints and those saints who die in the trib (in Rev20:4, at END of Trib),

--the OT saints "at the end of the days [at the END of the specific 'days' referred to in THAT context, Dan12:6-7,1, meaning AFTER/END of the trib, per Dan12:13]"


...ALL of THAT referring to "the FIRST resurrection" ['the resurrection OF LIFE'] but "EACH [G1538] IN HIS OWN ORDER" [sequence/chronology])

...it does not all take place at the same exact moment (a singular moment/point in time).


[also, as I've stated before, Matthew 13's "REAP" takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE ORDER from that of our Rapture--this is KEY to something else I will try to cover in another post, again, perhaps tomorrow]



As for the other, "the resurrection OF DAMNATION" pertains solely to "the DEAD" [the "DEAD [/UNSAVED]" of all times], which is what the GWTj pertains to (FOLLOWING the 1000 yrs--and pertaining to the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], the first of which PARALLELS the TIMING of Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5!! at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, Rev19!)
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
I'll come back later to post something about the "TRUMPET(s)" issue (perhaps tomorrow even).


But for now couple of things to note about 1 Corinthians 15:23,

which says, "[re: resurrection] but each [G1538 - Hekastos - 'each (of more than two)'] IN HIS OWN ORDER" :

--the underlined words would be superfluous, if there remained only one; and...

---the "G1538 - Hekastos" word means "each (of more than two)"... "each (individual) unit viewed distinctly, i.e. as opposed to "severally" (as a group)" [<---source: these quoted from Bible Hub; bold mine]...


... So John 5:29's "the resurrection OF LIFE" (being distinct from "the resurrection of damnation") has more than one-point-in-time of application:

--firstfruit Christ in 32ad (1 Corinthians 15:23a)

--and the "many" that arose also at that time in 32ad (Matthew 27:51-53),

--"the Church which is His body [the 'ONE BODY']"'s 'dead IN Christ' at the time of our Rapture (1 Thess 4:15-17; 1Cor15:51-54 where the words "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" speaks SOLELY of "the Church which is His body" [indicated by the word "THIS" and in the context of the phrase "Behold, I shew you a mystery"]; Martha and all OT saints WELL-KNEW of "resurrection," John 11:24, Job 19:25-27, Daniel 12:13--it was no mystery to them, and was not exactly what Paul was tasked with disclosing here),

--the two witnesses at the 6th Trumpet time-slot (the 7th Trumpet/3rd Woe and 7 Vials are yet to follow this),

--the martyred/beheaded trib saints and those saints who die in the trib (in Rev20:4, at END of Trib),

--the OT saints "at the end of the days [at the END of the specific 'days' referred to in THAT context, Dan12:6-7,1, meaning AFTER/END of the trib, per Dan12:13]"


...ALL of THAT referring to "the FIRST resurrection" ['the resurrection OF LIFE'] but "EACH [G1538] IN HIS OWN ORDER" [sequence/chronology])

...it does not all take place at the same exact moment (a singular moment/point in time).


[also, as I've stated before, Matthew 13's "REAP" takes place in the EXACT OPPOSITE ORDER from that of our Rapture--this is KEY to something else I will try to cover in another post, again, perhaps tomorrow]



As for the other, "the resurrection OF DAMNATION" pertains solely to "the DEAD" [the "DEAD [/UNSAVED]" of all times], which is what the GWTj pertains to (FOLLOWING the 1000 yrs--and pertaining to the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], the first of which PARALLELS the TIMING of Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5!! at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, Rev19!)
Click to expand...

First let me say that I find your post very difficult to read.

Secondly, you are going to a lot of trouble to explain away the simple truth stated in the Scripture.

All means all--none excluded
First means first--none before
Last means last--none to follow.

The only reason people refuse to believe this is because it destroys the foundation they have built a false belief on.
You can question the Scripture if you wish, I will not.
 
SpoonJuly said:
All means all--none excluded
Click to expand...

In the context of what Paul is writing ("to/for/about"), "we shall all" (1Cor15:51), the "we" here speaks solely of "the Church which is His body" [defined as all believers/saints from Pentecost to our Rapture, Eph1:20-23 'WHEN' (see also Jn7:39 "not yet," and Rom6:3 "baptized [not water] INTO JESUS CHRIST," and 1Cor12:13 "are we all baptized [not water] INTO ONE BODY," and Col2:12 "having been buried with Him [G4916 ( G4862 ['union-with'/'identification-with'] G2290 )] in THE baptism [not water]"<---none of this was true of any believers BEFORE the Cross/death/resurrection/exaltation of Him); Learn the IDENTITY of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and you will begin to see the Truths (and doctrine/teaching) regarding it unfold before your eyes, when reading the scriptures pertaining to it...('correctly apportioning' the scriptures, and discerning the Truths concerning "His Body," the "ONE BODY" with Christ as "HEAD")




[also, in Scripture, and in nature, there are 3 "harvests" not just one]
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
In the context of what Paul is writing ("to/for/about"), "we shall all" (1Cor15:51), the "we" here speaks solely of "the Church which is His body" [defined as all believers/saints from Pentecost to our Rapture, Eph1:20-23 'WHEN' (see also Jn7:39 "not yet," and Rom6:3 "baptized [not water] INTO JESUS CHRIST," and 1Cor12:13 "are we all baptized [not water] INTO ONE BODY," and Col2:12 "having been buried with Him [G4916 ( G4862 ['union-with'/'identification-with'] G2290 )] in THE baptism [not water]"<---none of this was true of any believers BEFORE the Cross/death/resurrection/exaltation of Him); Learn the IDENTITY of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and you will begin to see the Truths (and doctrine/teaching) regarding it unfold before your eyes, when reading the scriptures pertaining to it...('correctly apportioning' the scriptures, and discerning the Truths concerning "His Body," the "ONE BODY" with Christ as "HEAD")




[also, in Scripture, and in nature, there are 3 "harvests" not just one]
Click to expand...

Your assuming that I need to "learn the identity of the church" is a wrong assumption.
And your assumption that all is only referring to the church is also a wrong assumption.
You can twist Scripture, deny what is plainly stated, say all does not mean all, first does not mean first, and last does not mean last, and assume all you wish, but that does not change the facts.
Your belief is based on WRONG ASSUMPTIONS and can not stand.
 
SpoonJuly said:
Your assuming that I need to "learn the identity of the church" is a wrong assumption.
And your assumption that all is only referring to the church is also a wrong assumption.
You can twist Scripture, deny what is plainly stated, say all does not mean all, first does not mean first, and last does not mean last, and assume all you wish, but that does not change the facts.
Your belief is based on WRONG ASSUMPTIONS and can not stand.
Click to expand...

I really don't see how you can read TheDivineWaterark's posts. They all seem a jumbled mess to me. I believe he is in his own world so to speak. :cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldethennew
SpoonJuly said:
And your assumption that all is only referring to the church is also a wrong assumption.
Click to expand...

I've seen some posters (who are Amill) state that this verse must be referring to a [so called] "general resurrection" [one point in time only] at the time of the Rev20:11 "great white throne" judgment, because of how this passage says "then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" and because of what 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 says, "... till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

Is this how you view it? A [singular-point-in-time] "general resurrection" [only], at the time of the GWTj/Rev20:11?
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
I've seen some posters (who are Amill) state that this verse must be referring to a [so called] "general resurrection" [one point in time only] at the time of the Rev20:11 "great white throne" judgment, because of how this passage says "then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" and because of what 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 says, "... till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

Is this how you view it? A [singular-point-in-time] "general resurrection" [only], at the time of the GWTj/Rev20:11?
Click to expand...

I can not understand why you can not accept scripture.
Rev. 20 speaks of the first resurrection and the second death.
To escape the second death, one must be in the first resurrection. NO EXCEPTIONS.
All the saved from Adam until the last person to be saved will be in the first resurrection.
All who are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
What is so hard to understand about such a simple Scripture?
 
Deade said:
I really don't see how you can read TheDivineWaterark's posts. They all seem a jumbled mess to me. I believe he is in his own world so to speak. :cool:
Click to expand...

I do find them difficult, but some may find mine difficult.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back