Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[garee]

If you can receive this without getting angry, I would say that "the rails" are the doctrines that encourage you to read that verse backwards to how it is written.

Matthew 10:22 KJV
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

"Endureth to the end" is the prerequisite
"Shall be saved" is the result.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Yes being saved is a result of His work of faith, the labor of Love that works in us. It where by faith we can find our confidence... if we search for as for silver or gold. If it has carried us this far we then know we have received the end of it, the salvation of our new souls.

Like Paul says... from the first day till now

For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:Philipian1:5-6

A Buzz word..To Infinity And Beyond

 

[CS1]

You don't know how happy it makes me that you answered this post. Not because it provokes a battle, but because I know what you have And I know that I can simply tell you something and you'll know how to go pray about it and actually let God answer you. (whenever he sees fit, rather than rushing it).

So, I'll share this with you, knowing that I'll still carry respect for you whether you are able to receive it now, or if instead it takes a while and you receive it later. And of course, I intend to 'challenge' your ability to believe. Not towards overthrowing it, but rather like you are weightlifting to see if you can handle an extra plate on each side. The thing is this:

The apostles didn't receive the Holy Ghost twice. It was impossible for them to receive the NT Holy Ghost until Jesus was glorified (John 7:39 (as you know)... but this does not mean when he died on the cross....it means when he ascended... because He said also "if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16:7 KJV therefore it was impossible for them to have received the Promise/Comforter/HolyGhost until he departed (at his ascension Acts 1). Shortly afterwards they received the Holy Ghost.(Acts 2).

Here's the hard part.... Have you ever considered the reason people why want so badly to declare themselves or anyone else as "saved"?? <--really think about that.

SPOILER ALERT: ............. It's because of fear, not faith.

Men love that word (and have nearly deified it and built a shrine to it, lol) because it gives the illusion that everything difficult is in the past. I call it an illusion because of the very first stipulation Jesus mentioned regarding how to be "saved". He said "he that endureth to the end shall be saved." <---doesn't sound much like the way men use it today, does it?

The word saved simply means "delivered" and/or "protected".

Do a bible search and check it out. See if those words (the definition of saved) give clarity pretty much everywhere the word "saved" is used.

And consider this.... if you "save" money, that means you "protect" and "deliver" it from things that would devour it. And if you "save" yourself until marriage, that means you "protect" and "deliver" yourself intact and undefiled all the way to the wedding.

God was "saving"....(protecting and delivering) the apostles since the day each was conceived. It doesn't make it anything more or less if we try to declare them "ultimately saved" at some point, just so we can feel good about it.

There's so much more to say on this topic but I think I'll wait to see what questions/comments you might have so far.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

interesting but I do disagree with a few points

1. The apostles didn't receive the Holy Ghost twice.

I do not believe they received The Holy Spirit twice, I believe the Bible shows they received Holy Spirit In them and the Holy Spirit Came upon them. Same Holy Spirit Different application or work of the Holy Spirit. Now in the Old Testament, The Spirit of God which is the Holy Spirit would come upon a person and then depart Samson is one you can read about in Judges 13-16. For the Christian
AS John 14 says Jesus Speaking the Holy Spirit will be with you and IN YOU. and come alongside you as the Comforter. Same Holy Spirit different working of HIM.

2. The word saved simply means "delivered" and/or "protected".

Saved the word means in context to Rom 10:9-10 is SOZO
to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):--heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Saved is not only delivered or protect. The context of Rom 10:9-13 is not that, it is in context faith in Christ which produces a confession for salvation and belief into a right relationship with God.

Salvation means sótéria in the Greek which is: welfare, prosperity, deliverance, preservation, salvation, safety.

 

[KelbyofGod]

If you can receive this without getting angry, I would say that "the rails" are the doctrines that encourage you to read that verse backwards to how it is written.

Matthew 10:22 KJV
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

"Endureth to the end" is the prerequisite
"Shall be saved" is the result.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Mark 16:16 is written in the same order "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Believe and be baptized = prerequisites.
Being saved = outcome if the prerequisites are met.

 

[PennEd]

If you would like to get technical, which I'm willing to do for clarification's sake, you could also say that even the apostles are not recorded as having received the Holy Ghost at the moment Jesus breathed on them. Look closely. It only records what Jesus did, not the apostles' participation.

He did something and gave them a commandment. It doesn't say there was an immediate response or outcome.

Are you reading the same Bible as me?

John 20:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.



How can this unequivocal pronouncement by Jesus be taken ANY other way but face value?

 

[PennEd]

If you can receive this without getting angry, I would say that "the rails" are the doctrines that encourage you to read that verse backwards to how it is written.

Matthew 10:22 KJV
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

"Endureth to the end" is the prerequisite
"Shall be saved" is the result.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Why would I get angry with you?

This seems to me to be a works Gospel seeping in with your post. So it's OUR enduring, and NOT Jesus Christ that saves us?

 

[wolfwint]

Here ya go.
Eat your heart out in knowing you dont know what you are talking about.
A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says: "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly embraced the true faith with their whole minds."
A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."
A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states: "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.
A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days, he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman, another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."
A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands. It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

And where one of them taught, that speaking in tongues is the proof that someone us filled/ baptised with the Holy Spirit?

 

[PennEd]

If you would like to get technical, which I'm willing to do for clarification's sake, you could also say that even the apostles are not recorded as having received the Holy Ghost at the moment Jesus breathed on them. Look closely. It only records what Jesus did, not the apostles' participation.

He did something and gave them a commandment. It doesn't say there was an immediate response or outcome.

Please tell me what "participation" you had in your physical OR Spiritual Birth? The Lord and your parents determined your physical Birth and I think THIS passage says EXACTLY who is responsible for your Spiritual Birth:

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, NOR of the WILL of the flesh, NOR of the WILL of man, but of GOD..

 

[Deade]

Man does not seek the Holy Spirit. Never has and never will.

Ro 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God does the seeking not man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Really? What about these verses?

2 Chr. 15:2 "And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you."

Jer. 29:13, "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the LORD; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive."

 

[CS1]

And where one of them taught, that speaking in tongues is the proof that someone us filled/ baptised with the Holy Spirit?

first off you just provided commentary no actual quotes or sayings from the listed church fathers LOL look like you cut an pasted it. maybe you should have added the ref: page

 

[wolfwint]

You'd mentioned earlier that you held this opinion as early as post #15. There have been more than a thousand posts since that time, (many for answer and/or clarification of the answers). My question is... What have you learned during all this time?

In love of Jesus,
Kelby

I have learned that nobody could show that this teaching was before 1900. And that it seems to be hold for an unbeliever and ignorant, because I have this question and expect an answer,before i trust mans expieriences.
I have learned that an serious question gets not always an serious answer.
I have learned that it seems that Personal expierience is hold more worth, then biblical teaching.
I have learned that answers often respectless attack the Person, and discredit the Motiv someone has to ask ore questioning the made Statement.
I have learned that different Interpretation of the Word cause different teachings.
So far.

 

[wolfwint]

The Jew will not read the NT.
If they ever do,most of them get saved.

Your deal is similar,in that you are locked in and blinded by your own personal restrictions.
You actually hope God lost power.

God lost no Power, but not all what is taught comes from God.

 

[wolfwint]

first off you just provided commentary no actual quotes or sayings from the listed church fathers LOL look like you cut an pasted it. maybe you should have added the ref: page

This list came not from me

 

[CS1]

This list came not from me

I'm sure it did not have you heard of text citations or ref pages? where did you get the list from?

 

[wolfwint]

I'm sure it did not have you heard of text citations or ref pages? where did you get the list from?

In post 1609 Absolutly postet this to me. You have to ask Him.

 

[CS1]

In post 1609 Absolutly postet this to me. You have to ask Him.

never mind

 

[wolfwint]

never mind

Why you ask me then?

 

[Wansvic]

Man does not seek the Holy Spirit. Never has and never will.

Ro 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God does the seeking not man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Scripture:

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

 

[Wansvic]

Our Heavenly Father knows what we need and has promised to fill our needs. Our Heavenly Father is not obliged to give us all that we want.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Scripture surely says that if one asks to receive the Holy Ghost they will.

 

[notuptome]

Scripture:

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Luke 11:13

Scripture surely Spirit that quickens one from dead in sin to new life in Christ.

I did not ask for the Holy Spirit. I asked Jesus to have mercy and save me from my sin. I am concerned if your experience is not very similar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Scripture surely says that if one asks to receive the Holy Ghost they will.

The truth is The Lord Jesus HIMself said in the gospel of Luke11:13

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

They have a hard time when you have shown them what Jesus said about asking for the Holy Spirit. They know better than our Lord.