NDEs and ADCs: Their Apologetic Value for the Christian Faith

MadHermit · Apr 12, 2019

There are Fundamentalists like you, whose myopia prevents them from seeing more than 2 options.
Then there are liberals like those I oppose in my own denomionation.
Then there are biblical Christians who humbly pursue and honest and open inquiry and therefore who actually read posts and WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEOS that challenge their preconceptions. Guess which category I embrace.

posthuman · Apr 12, 2019

MadHermit said:

"Biblical Christians .. actually .. WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEOS"

_____________________

posthuman · Apr 12, 2019

MadHermit said:

just to clarify:

i'm blessed with really good vision.
i've also been the beneficiary of an uncommonly prodigious amount of education in mathematics, and it's because of this that i see only two options:

let A be an arbitrary option.

then there are only two options: {A, ¬A}

∎

MadHermit · Apr 13, 2019

BR is a missionary to an African Muslim nation. He shared this testimonh in my parents' church. 2 young missionaries were doing hospital visitation and praying for the gravely ill. Ahmed was dying of AIDs; so they prayed for his healing. But Ahmed was a radical Muslim mullah who hated Christians. He would later say that he wanted to kill this couple for their presumption in praying for a Muslim, but was too weak to move. That night he had an NDE or vision of a man in a white robe approaching his bed and laying hands on him. The man vanished without leaving the room and this frightened Ahmed. So he managed to push a button summoning a nurse and asked her to check to see if a man was hiding under his bed! Soon he felt greatly improved, but not cured, improved enough to leave the hospital. He now recognized that the visionary man was Jesus; so he sought out the young missionaries who had prayed for him. They laid hands on Ahmed and he was completely cured of AIDs and gloriously converted!

As a Muslim mullah, Ahmed was greatly respected in the Muslim community. He began to share his testimony in his neighborhood public squares and the persecution was swift in reprisal. Muslims pelted him with stones. But though bloodied, he returned day after day to resume his witness. After he shared Ahmed's testimony, BR said that Ahmed wanted him to join him in his witness, but BR declined, saying he lacked the courage to risk his life in this way. BR was home on furlough and confessed that he was unsure whether Ahmed's reckless testimony had already gotten him killed.I

I know that this site attracts few truth seekers. But I feel compelled to repost atheist Howard Storm's NDE testimony because I'm convinced that it will change the way you view NDEs and ADCs:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2E6D15E1B57D8F1E28962E6D15E1B57D8F1&FORM=VIRE

I repeat: the evidence for postmortem survival from NDEs is superior to that for Jesus' resurrection and, for that very reason, confirms the resurrection. If you care about winning the lost, then NDEs and ADCs can be a priceless weapon in your witnessing arsenal. I know this by direct experience.

Lanolin · Apr 13, 2019

I dont think talking about other peoples NDES or ADC saves anyone only the person who actually has experienced the NDE or ADC. And even then people that experience the, can still not quite believe. Quite a number of people I know have had them and they still in a quandry about God and who He is. A lot of people say they had them and think well there must be an afterlife of some sort but they havent encountered their Saviour through them.

Why because if its personal revelation to that person, its only confirming to THEM not to anyone else. Rather, its an encounter with the holy spirit working in people that glorify God that demonstrates his power eg healing miracles, a changed life etc.

The thing is Paul had abundance of revelations that he wasnt permitted to tell, and he knew a man who was caught up to the third heaven...so yea these things happen but I think if these people dont know about Jesus first, then all the NDE and ADCs are in vain. If they dont actually point to Jesus...then its not going to convince anyone.

Nebuchadnezzer · May 16, 2019

MadHermit said:

No doubt NDEs are real, but are they from the Spirit of God or are they from the spirit of demons?
The bible tells us to test the spirits.

1John 4: 1 "Do not believe every spirit"
1John 4:2-3 "every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

In any of these NDEs that you have shared with us, was Jesus confessed as Lord and Savior?

Furthermore, Paul warns us not to trust anyone who, "goes on in detail about visions". Colossians 2:18

Sketch · May 16, 2019

Nebuchadnezzer said:

Seriously?
That's not what that means. (scripture below)
Did Daniel and Ezekial go into great detail about their visions?
What about the Apostle John and his revelation?
Should these prophets not be trusted?

Colossians 2:18
Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.

Deade · May 16, 2019

Nebuchadnezzer said:

My second wife had a near death experience before I met her. She was giving birth to her firstborn, and he was coming in breech. She was all ripped up and actually died on the operating table. She said she saw this great blinding light and assumed it was God or Jesus. She spoke into the light and said please don’t take me now, let me see this child grow up. She said God didn’t speak. She suddenly looked down and she was hovering above her body on the table. The next she knew she woke up in recovery.

We studied the scriptures together and still concluded the dead are asleep. Like others have said, these experiences are visions. She believed she talked to the Lord while dead and I do too. God knew He was going to let her come back so He did not let her sleep.

Nebuchadnezzer · May 17, 2019

Sketch said:

So what are you saying, that all visions should be trusted?

Should we also trust the visions that the prophet Muhammad had as well? Absolutely Not!

We must draw a distinction between the visions from the true prophets (i.e. Ezekiel, Daniel, Apostle John); and the visions from the false prophets ( i.e. Muhammad, Joseph Smith).

The only way to do this is by knowing, trusting and abiding in God's Holy Word, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Nebuchadnezzer · May 17, 2019

Here is my point: We should only trust visions which we know were inspired by God: The visions of the prophets in the Holy Bible are of God.

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding

These present day NDEs, are they of God? If we cannot be certain whether or not they are of God, then how can we trust them? We cannot.

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

garee · May 17, 2019

Nebuchadnezzer said:

NDEs simply try and widen the authority of it as it is written . (sola scriptura)The word it in the phrase represents the unseen faith of God that woks in us to both will and do the his good pleasure .They are not walking by faith but make make experience a source of faith.....called will worship in the bible. (self)

Jesus our example at the beginning of his ministry he was sent out into the wilderness as our scapegoat. Three times ( three denoting the end of a matter) Jesus stated as it is written. He refused to look to his weakened fleshly mind having not eaten 40 days and pretend to see things that are not there. He gave glory to father not seen . He would not worship a fallen angel as the father of lies. He heard the voice of His Father. Three times to confirm..it is written with the Finger of God... God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases.

From that experience he has left us a warning.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, Colossians 2: 18

I would be careful on how we hear. Experience seems to be the new age "sign gift" order .Having made full circle (history repeats itself because of moral issues) .

Experience (walking by sight) had its start in the garden . God not seen walked with mankind. God gave them loving commandments and did not want them to experience separation between God not seen and man by doing the will of that in which the eyes do see.....faith died .The same serpent with his poisonous lies is attempting to widen the authority of that which strikes him out.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.Mathew 4:

Strike three the end of that season.

MadHermit · May 20, 2019

Neb: "In any of these NDEs that you have shared with us, was Jesus confessed as Lord and Savior?"

For example, watch my posted YouTube testimony of Howard Storm's NDE conversion and read my account of the Muslim conversion through an NDE.

Neb: ""Furthermore, Paul warns us not to trust anyone who, "goes on in detail about visions". Colossians 2:18"

First, on the Day of Pentecost Peter quotes Joel 2:28 which predicts that prophesying and visions will be a sign that Holy Spirit has been poured out in the last days. (Acts 2:17).
Second, the phrase "visions of angels" in Colossians 2:18 is addressed to Jewish Christians who continue to worship angels like the Judaism in Asia Minor from which the were converted. Some of Paul's Jewish Christian opponents discussed in Colossians actually believed the Jesus was the incarnation of the Archangel Michael!

MadHermit · May 20, 2019

George Ritchie (age 20) encounters Jesus during his 9 minutes of clinical death and Jesus asks him to give an account of how he lived his life. George points to his status as an eagle scout, but Jesus dismisses that as self-glorifying and reiterates the question. Dr. Raymond Moody is so moved by Ritchie's NDE that he writes the book "Life and Life" that launches the modern NDE movement. Here is Ritchie's testimony during his later career as a psychiatrist:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...05431C3E5C8ADE3A216A05431C3E5C8ADE3&FORM=VIRE

For my other YouTube videos on conversons through NDEs, see my post on atheist Howard Storm's NDE conversion (post 93) and my post on the NDE conversion of a Muslim Mullah, Ahmed (post 104).

Nebuchadnezzer · May 20, 2019

[QUOTE="MadHermit, post: 3930136, member: 270203"
Neb: ""Furthermore, Paul warns us not to trust anyone who, "goes on in detail about visions". Colossians 2:18"

First, on the Day of Pentecost Peter quotes Joel 2:28 which predicts that prophesying and visions will be a sign that Holy Spirit has been poured out in the last days. (Acts 2:17).
[/QUOTE]

I see Acts 2:17 (quoting Joel 2:28) referring to the Apostolic Age, where God authorized many miracles and visions. I'm thinking it does not refer to the ages which have followed.

posthuman · May 21, 2019

MadHermit said:

interesting role model..

''I think probably the most annoying group to me is the Funda-Christians. And incidentally, this is not a bad comment about Christianity. The way I like to say it is, if someone comes up to me and asks if I'm a Christian, I ask, Do you mean Jesus, or 'Jaa-sus?' ''

- Dr. Raymond Moody

Dr. Moody's forthcoming book brings together all the ancient lore about nonsense, and shows how nonsense can be used to alter the mind. He believes that nonsensical utterances can transform people's consciousness. This new book, which he's been laboring on for forty-something years, sets out the logic and rules of nonsense. At the very end, it offers exercises that will give a person the sensation or the feeling that they have passed over to another dimension of reality.
- interview with Dr. Moody: spirit of Ma'at

In “Paranormal,” Moody writes that “Life After Life” was so successful — it sold more than 10 million copies — in part because it didn’t entertain a religious bias.

- HuffPost

he seems to have gotten pretty wealthy from this stuff, but it doesn't seem to have convinced him of the gospel in any way shape or form.

posthuman · May 21, 2019

MadHermit said:

MH,

Dr. Raymond Moody is a guy who has put more time and effort into looking at, publicizing & monetizing NDE's than maybe anyone else on earth.
and he hates Christianity and mocks believers. he is a secular psychologist & at best a deist believing in no particular God at all, certainly not Christ.

now, you put this thread saying 'oh this is better than preaching the gospel is, as a witnessing tool'

MadHermit said:

you are a retired ((?)) pastor.

i would like to know, just what kind of pastor are/were you???

i continue to pray for your congregation.

FollowHisSteps · May 21, 2019

Atheists need to believe in something, and NDE and ADC's give them a sense of science and truth, rather than religion.

But it is just another faith system, which is not christian.
Knowing God exists is not the same as loving and following Him.

But to atheists a conversion to theism is so massive, they exagurate the significance of it as if being an Egyptian
wanting to kill the escaping Israelites is the same as being Moses leading them through Gods direction.

This whole thread reflects on the unbelief of the poster, in not understanding the cross and Jesus's example
of life, but rather does God exist at all and is this religious nonsense any value, to which NDE and ADC say
maybe.

posthuman · May 21, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

I agree. And to me it's unspeakably tragic that the poster is a pastor who often boasts of the quantity of his evangelism efforts.

MadHermit · May 21, 2019

Nebuchadnezzer said:

I see Acts 2:17 (quoting Joel 2:28) referring to the Apostolic Age, where God authorized many miracles and visions. I'm thinking it does not refer to the ages which have followed.[/QUOTE]

So you reject Peter's claim that we are living in "the last days?" And you jreject the relevance of the gifts of the Holy Spirit to our time? Do you also reject the doctrine of Christ's atoning sacrifice on the grounds that the Roman destruction of the Jerusalem Temple makes the concept of blood atonement obsolete? On that basis do you reject the relevance of God's Word for today?

Notice that posthuman will resort the desperate expedient of unjustified character assassination (of Dr. Raymond Moody) to shamefully duck the hard work of honest and open inquiry into the solid evidence and verfications of NDEs and ADCs. Posthuman's mentality is the same as the Jewish mentality that dismissed Jesus as an occult magician because He borrowed from contemporary magicians techniques like the use of clay an spittle, and anointings with oil as aids in healing.

posthuman · May 21, 2019

MadHermit said:

you miss the point. your stated point with this thread, in post #1, is that talking about this is literally more useful than talking about the Bible or the gospel for purposes of evangelizing.
however a man who is unquestionably immersed in it and has made it his career, to no small gain of earthly riches, has concluded exactly the opposite -- he, like you, mocks 'fundies' who believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and writes a dozen books describing how all people of every religion wind up having a 'go to heaven' experience no matter what kind of life they live, and he describes it as a psychological phenomena, the product of cultural religious upbringing.

this man is the epitome of your argument, yet he is the antithesis of your conclusion. how is that?

i continue to pray for whatever people you have 'shepherded' in your life.

NDEs and ADCs: Their Apologetic Value for the Christian Faith

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